Sonos Play:1

[Hewbacca]

I hesitate to create this thread because it's so rudimentary, but I don't see anything like it or even discussing the Play:1 or Sonos One, so here we go.

I have always been a headphone guy, I've done almost nothing with speakers other than having a 2.1 or 5.1 setup to go along with my TV, but even there I am using 20 year old Bose speakers I inherited from my dad. However my headphone game has increased lately, and I've been wondering about speakers. I have Sonos all over my house, so I took two Play:1s and created a stereo pair in my office. My initial impressions are what you might expect, cool soundstage experience, but details aren't there like I experience with a good headphone or IEM setup.

Reading around I get the impression that Sonos is not the high-end quality I thought it was, nor that they are even expensive (I previously thought they were VERY expensive). As you can see, I don't know anything about speakers.

So my questions are really, am I missing anything, should I go down the speaker rabbit hole, just enjoy my Play:1 pair, or stick to headphones? How much more quality is there with speakers if I have a relatively small budget, say $500 for a pair of speakers (assuming I can power them if they are passive, which I can)? Looking at Amir's list, I would probably end up with something like the JBL 306P MkII which are powered speakers at $418 for a pair. Are those going to be substantially better than the Sonos pair, or have I already reached diminishing returns going past Sonos?

As an analogy, I am looking for the HD6xx and combo DAC/AMP equivalent in bookshelf speakers, for a similar budget; is that possible or do you have to spend more to get an equivalent experience with speakers.

Thanks.

 

[napilopez]

I hesitate to create this thread because it's so rudimentary, but I don't see anything like it or even discussing the Play:1 or Sonos One, so here we go.

I have always been a headphone guy, I've done almost nothing with speakers other than having a 2.1 or 5.1 setup to go along with my TV, but even there I am using 20 year old Bose speakers I inherited from my dad. However my headphone game has increased lately, and I've been wondering about speakers. I have Sonos all over my house, so I took two Play:1s and created a stereo pair in my office. My initial impressions are what you might expect, cool soundstage experience, but details aren't there like I experience with a good headphone or IEM setup.

Reading around I get the impression that Sonos is not the high-end quality I thought it was, nor that they are even expensive (I previously thought they were VERY expensive). As you can see, I don't know anything about speakers.

So my questions are really, am I missing anything, should I go down the speaker rabbit hole, just enjoy my Play:1 pair, or stick to headphones? How much more quality is there with speakers if I have a relatively small budget, say $500 for a pair of speakers (assuming I can power them if they are passive, which I can)? Looking at Amir's list, I would probably end up with something like the JBL 306P MkII which are powered speakers at $418 for a pair. Are those going to be substantially better than the Sonos pair, or have I already reached diminishing returns going past Sonos?

As an analogy, I am looking for the HD6xx and combo DAC/AMP equivalent in bookshelf speakers, for a similar budget; is that possible or do you have to spend more to get an equivalent experience with speakers.

Thanks.

I think it is worth trying something different at least so you have a reference and learn some more about your tastes, but the Sonos Play:1 appear to be competently designed speakers, whose main limitations are going to SPL limitations due to their size. Some measurements available here. They're frowned upon by the audiophile crowd sometimes but every Sonos product I've ever seen reliable measurements for has demonstrated at least some modicum of care put into the sound quality.

SO you might enjoy moving up to larger speakers with more bass/bolume output but in terms of tonality they may not be substantially better. you might also benefit from room correction. Have you tried Sonos' Trueplay tech? I don't know how good it actually is but it might help too.

In any case, it's good to try something new from time to time.

That said... I've never heard a pair of speakers be as 'revealing' as a good set of headphones. Not $500 speakers, not $50,000 speakers. They will obviously have better spatial presentation (unless you're listening to binaural audio with headphones), but in terms of being able to pick out a dog sneezing across the street from the recording venue, headphones will almost always win. You can get close in a treated room listening nearfield, perhaps (which is really just approximating what headphones do anyway), but I personally will always prefer headphones for that type of hyperanlytical listening. Others might disagree with me on that front, but just want to keep your expectations in check.

 

[JeffS7444]

My Sonos experience was positive, and I thought Play 1 was a pleasant and polished product. I did try them individually and as a stereo pair, but mostly used them as surrounds paired with a Sonos Playbar, and tuned via Sonos Trueplay, and kudos to Sonos for making room correction so accessible, at least for owners of Apple mobile devices.

But I think the intent of products such as Sonos is as audio problem-solver, not something for the sonic perfectionist. Impression of the P1s used as stereo pair was of a decent set of small speakers with a narrow "sweet spot", and best results would be maybe as desktop system, angled towards one's ears.

 

[Zensō]

I have some very nice headphones, and some pretty decent studio monitors on one of my desks (Adam A5X). On my other desk I have a pair of Sonos One SL’s, which are just the updated version of the Play:1 that sound identical. As @napilopez said above, they actually measure surprisingly well, and I find them quite enjoyable in a stereo pair, at close range next to my computer monitor. I compared them to some other tiny desktop speakers (iLoud Micro and Genelec 8010) and didn’t find the difference significant enough to justify the price difference, at least at the low volumes at which I use them. At higher output they fall apart pretty quick, so I think that would be a major consideration. I have a number of other Sonos speakers in pairs around the house and also enjoy the multi-room aspect of the Sonos system for casual listening.

 

[whyfi]

I have the the same setup in my office...
- A Play:1 stereo pair
- good sound card >> Schiit Magni >> HD6xx
- A pair of M-Audio AV40 powered speakers.
By far the most satisfying experience is with those cheap M-Audio speakers. I rarely use the Play 1 pair. And only use the cans when I need to keep the volume down for sleeping family.
I'd get the speakers and move the stereo pair to a different room. And you don't have to spend nearly that much. M-Audio or Kali powered speakers and be done. Or those JBLs.

 

[pozz]

Sonos put a lot of work into their drivers. I enjoyed listening to this talk: (2017) Richard Little - Designing Durable Audio Transducers

 

[Hewbacca]

Thanks for the responses. I have used TruePlay in the room they are in. I can't imagine going louder than I have before, which is maybe 40% volume; this already hurts my ears, so I am not worried about the SPL limitations. Sounds like there are no gigantic leaps in quality waiting for me. I really like the detail retrieval of headphones and really miss it with the speakers, so I think I will continue using the Sonos for convenience and my headphones for critical listening.

Great job not convincing someone to spend money for once

 

[tktran303]

Well

I have a counterpoint to this. If you enjoy the HD6xx; then clearly you can tell the differences between your Sonos, Apple earphones and your HD6xx. So I think you are in for a treat with speakers.

The 64,000 dollar question is; is it worth it to you? And how much does one need to spend?

That, you cannot know without doing some serious listening and auditioning.

Let me tell you an analogy. My spouse just bought a new piano; and she can clearly tell the difference between a 5’ tall upright snd a 7’ grand piano. I encouraged her to buy the grand, but she doesn’t want to spend the money. She thinks she must be a professional concert pianist to have one. On the other hand, I know people who don’t play; but have a Diskclavier (player) grand piano in their home.

My friend has a dozen guitars; and can pickup a riff by listening to the radio, and his son taught himself to play piano via Youtube. But he doesn’t care for hone theatre or hifi.

So it all depends. No one is right, snd no one is wrong,

The difficulty is that you already started with something that is very good. 6xx; we’ll it doesn’t get much better than that; without spending serious $$$$; for diminishing returns.

Yes; you need to spend several times your headphones/amp budget; but the minimum you need to spend is something like the Genelec 8030C (Europe) or Philharmonic BMR Monitor (US).

I don’t think the JBL 3 series compare to the HD6xx

For $500, the only way you can beat the HD6XX headphones is DIY…

 

[JJB70]

I think Sonos speakers are very good. Sound quality is more than acceptable and for the intended market of general listeners just wanting pain free high quality sound I think they are superb. They are kind of like a speaker equivalent of the Bose QC35, many audiophiles will never accept it but for most people they are pretty much ideal.

 

[tktran303]

I think Sonos speakers are very good. Sound quality is more than acceptable and for the intended market of general listeners just wanting pain free high quality sound I think they are superb. They are kind of like a speaker equivalent of the Bose QC35, many audiophiles will never accept it but for most people they are pretty much ideal.

The question I interpreted that the OP asked; was what does it take to beat a HD6xx.

Not what does it take to beat a Play:1.
Because I agree the Sonos are very good. And which is why they’ve conquered a market that even Apple failed at.

A pair of 305p mkII might play louder than a Play 1- but I don’t think a person coming from a Sonos Play 1 casual listening experience is going to be wowed; compared to the HD6XX

 

[Willem]

Yes going the 'real' speaker route will give you better sound, but not for $500, because Sonos speakers are not bad at all. To stay within the convenience of the Sonos system, you would have to start with the new Sonos Amp plus some good speakers. The Elac DBR 62 would be a good sounding and modern looking value for money suggestion, perhaps with the addition of two subwoofers like the SVS micro3000. Better is obviously also possible, but is rather more expensive. $500 will not buy you any improvement, on the contrary.

 

[Darwin]

I have some very nice headphones, and some pretty decent studio monitors on one of my desks (Adam A5X). On my other desk I have a pair of Sonos One SL’s, which are just the updated version of the Play:1 that sound identical. As @napilopez said above, they actually measure surprisingly well, and I find them quite enjoyable in a stereo pair, at close range next to my computer monitor. I compared them to some other tiny desktop speakers (iLoud and Genelec 8010) and didn’t find the difference significant enough to justify the price difference, at least at the low volumes at which I use them. At higher output they fall apart pretty quick, so I think that would be a major consideration. I have a number of other Sonos speakers in pairs around the house and also enjoy the multi-room aspect of the Sonos system for casual listening.

They do fall apart above about 50 percent volume. I prefer HomePod Minis which have a way better soundstage with 360 sound. Those are good to about 70 percent volume. I’ve spent a lot of time comparing paired Sonos Ones to paired minis and overall sound quality is a wash but the much better soundstage makes the minis the winners. Plie they are $99 and I prefer Siri for smart device control at home. You certainly want to use trueplay with Sonos anything but the minis do the same thing automatically.

 

[Darwin]

Yes going the 'real' speaker route will give you better sound, but not for $500, because Sonos speakers are not bad at all. To stay within the convenience of the Sonos system, you would have to start with the new Sonos Amp plus some good speakers. The Elac DBR 62 would be a good sounding and modern looking value for money suggestion, perhaps with the addition of two subwoofers like the SVS micro3000. Better is obviously also possible, but is rather more expensive. $500 will not buy you any improvement, on the contrary.

I have the amp and don’t know of a way to do two subs with one. I use Revel M16s with mine and Sonos sub. Sonos sub is really for home theater though. It’s kind of boomy so not great for music.

 

[Willem]

How about a Y connector (two mono subs is usually deemed to be better than stereo subs)? A sub can be boomy because it is a bad design, but more often it is the interaction with the room's acoustics. Did you ever measure the response? Solutions could be dsp room eq for just the sub, such as an Antimode 8033, and/or a second subwoofer. The latter does not have to be an identical model. See here for inspiration: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/05/musings-measurements-subwoofers-to.html And for Sonos info on setting the crossover etc: https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4953?language=en_US Disclaimer: I never tried this.