• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Some questions around a surround setup

OP
X

Xenio

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
60
Likes
9
Well I'd be glad to know why I would have "obsessive-compulsive disorder" for owning an OLED tv with a specific type of room correction, I know that I have my fair share of medical condition but as far as I know, no mental disorder :)


Anyway, for those that are more likeable than him, thanks for the answers.

I saw that Armim did a test of the Denon room correction, I'll take a look at it. As for the differents subs you recommended, I'll just see which ones are the most easily available where I am (france).

So a pair of 500€\u~~ subwoofers, and it's a better idea than to take directly one 1000€ sub? Or maybe if I tell to myself "right know I buy only one higer end sub and later I'll take a second one

Hooked to a denon 3700H that will do everything (decoding, dac, pre-amp, potentially amp if passive speakers, room correction, bass management and whatsoever), and will do it "goodly enough"

With ... 3 speakers like the neumann KH 120 A or passive ones ? Surround i'll just re-use the dali zensor that I have for now

I didn't see any test for the Neummans here, the DBR-62 seemed to be a good idea, but yeah not being able to buy them one by one kind of destroy the price/quality ratio
 

abdo123

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
7,424
Likes
7,940
Location
Brussels, Belgium
Well I'd be glad to know why I would have "obsessive-compulsive disorder" for owning an OLED tv with a specific type of room correction, I know that I have my fair share of medical condition but as far as I know, no mental disorder :)


Anyway, for those that are more likeable than him, thanks for the answers.

I saw that Armim did a test of the Denon room correction, I'll take a look at it. As for the differents subs you recommended, I'll just see which ones are the most easily available where I am (france).

So a pair of 500€\u~~ subwoofers, and it's a better idea than to take directly one 1000€ sub? Or maybe if I tell to myself "right know I buy only one higer end sub and later I'll take a second one

Hooked to a denon 3700H that will do everything (decoding, dac, pre-amp, potentially amp if passive speakers, room correction, bass management and whatsoever), and will do it "goodly enough"

With ... 3 speakers like the neumann KH 120 A or passive ones ? Surround i'll just re-use the dali zensor that I have for now

I didn't see any test for the Neummans here, the DBR-62 seemed to be a good idea, but yeah not being able to buy them one by one kind of destroy the price/quality ratio


Neumann have already disclosed their Klippel measurments for the KH120 here
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,751
Likes
5,910
Location
PNW
The advantages of multiple subs are in smoothing response through the room, altho if you want one bigger/better sub now and save up for another later....you might also look into XTZ and BK Elec subs there in europe. SVS might be available, don't believe either Rythmik or Hsu have distribution there. As to audio quality, it should be at least as good as that schiit you have, but with more features to shape it with.
 
OP
X

Xenio

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
60
Likes
9
Okay yeah, just the fact that the Denon has the room correction is enough to make it better than just a simple DAC. Should I buy another microphone like the Umikk-1, it's really cheap considering the overall price of everything.

Thanks for the hindsight about the distribution of HSU and Rythmik, now I know what to look for. As for the "bigger sub", I don't plan on running everything really loud, so if the advantage of having a "bigger/better" sub is just the ability to crank up the volume higher without distortion.. well it's not for me.
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,751
Likes
5,910
Location
PNW
I'd say buy a measurement microphone if you want to, but not to replace the Audyssey mic (not sure if that's what you meant). Bigger/better subs usually means both an spl/headroom and also extension advantage....somewhat the Hoffman Iron Law of speakers at work.
 

JeffS7444

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
2,347
Likes
3,508
It really blows my mind that we can't find anywhere an AV processor that has digital outputs btw
I'm pretty sure that's not a technical limitation, but rather, so-called Digital Rights Management in which Hollywood dictates what capabilities you shall or shall not get, and unencrypted digital outputs are a big no-no.

If your money's already been spent, don't obsess over SINAD, because many a mediocre device on the wrong side of the chart is still likely not erring to a degree that you'll be able to detect just by listening. And the reason you might want to stick to the well-trodden path of getting an AVR is that you generally get a lot of value for your money (even $300 buys a whole lot of AVR these days), including measurement mic, and support for the latest media formats.

Speaker-wise, I figure you can save some money by concentrating your efforts on Center (most important), subwoofer, and to a lesser extent, L and R, unless you plan to also listen to music, in which case, upgrade L and R too. Surrounds and height speakers are a good place to economize, and you might even find that salvaged or thrift-store items work surprisingly well there.
 
OP
X

Xenio

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
60
Likes
9
So I bought everything now, still waiting for the amplifier to be delivered

I opted for the Denon AVR-X3700H since it seemed to be quite good for the price

I also bought 4 focal aria 906 with the focal aria CC900 mainly because the 906 are good and where I am I can get them for a really good price (I'm french). 1150€ for the 5 speakers

As for the sub ... Well the SVSs and others highly recommended subs were not at good prices. For example the SB-1000 should be 420€ and we can't get it for less than 700€ in France (800€ with a WAF proof color...).... And well, my friends offered me the focal sub 1000 F for my birthday as a surprise .... Maybe not the best one, I can't find any measurement for it. But for 600€ (and it's a gift, didn't have that much of a choice lmao) I feel like it's okayish
One day I'll buy a second one, cuz having two or more seems like the way to go

So now I'm wondering two things :

- How can I phisically and easily improve the accoustic of my room for a not stupid budget/time investment. Like putting some accoustics panels to walls or something without thinking too much about it ?

- I still have my other 2 old bookshelves speakers (Dali sensor 1), would it be interesting to use them for 7.1 or 5.1.2 or smth ? Or it's not worth it, apparently there isn't that many movies that support more than 5 channels anyway ...
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,751
Likes
5,910
Location
PNW
Not sure how you figure an SB-1000 should be 420 euros (486 USD per a conversion I just did) as they listed for 500 USD here in the US, altho some may have been sold for less if a second/return in the outlet store or something. The SB1000 Pro now lists for 600 USD here (and the PB1000 Pro for 800). I'd have looked at ported subs myself. Curious how close the Focal is to the SB1000 in any case (which sells for USD 2000 here fwiw).
 
OP
X

Xenio

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
60
Likes
9
I just converted 500USD to € but yeah I forgot taxes

It still bugs me to pay that much more anyway

And yeah I'm curious to know what this focal sub is worth, well not that I'll be able to know because I own one
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,296
Likes
5,074
Location
Nashville
I thought you had a TV too?

Anyway lets assume you bought the Okto, you have 8 analog outputs from 1 to 8. You would assume windows would assign 1 and 2 to L and R and 3 to C .etc but that is not really the case, you need to use a program that will assign the analog outputs to whatever function you would like.

Additionally The majority of multichannel content is in propriety formats, it's not like stereo at all. so you would need 'something' that will decode these formats, and should probably work well with what you used in the previous issue.

Like I think this entire forum has to come together to properly decode Dolby Atmos from the Netflix windows app to 7.1 via USB to the Okto.

With an AVR literally all of these issues disappear, it receives the audio signal unadulterated via HDMI, it decodes it, it routes it to whatever speakers you have and voila.
Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro 3d codecs are strictly controlled by their companies and will only be licensed to play on dedicated processors. That means no way to decode them on a PC and pass an LPCM via USB to an OCTO or anything else that employs anything other than HDMI as its input stream.

J River assigns via USB channels to the OCTO as follows L-R go to 1-2. C-SW go to 3-4, LSS-RSS go to 5-6, and Lb-Rb go to 7-8. There is some flexibility in JRiver on how USB maps to the OCTO's input over USB. In "Playback Options" there is a channel offset which allows the assignment of all the channels to be advanced so that beginning with the "L" all the channels are assigned to the "default + offset number" input. So an offset of "2" would result in L-R to be assigned to Octo input 3-4, C-SW to 5-6, etc.
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,296
Likes
5,074
Location
Nashville
I'll take a shot at these:

That will depend on the sensitivity of your speakers, the gain of your power amp(s), the acoustics of your room, the amount of DSP boost in your correction filters and your listening preferences. In my system, the default output version of the Okto is barely adequate with output level settings often in the -8 to -4dB range. I'd be happier with an addition 6dB or more headroom. (My choice was to add external gain blocks.)

Of course. That's how it works.

I am an advocate of using the identical speakers for L/C/R but I am not in favor of doubling up speakers on any channel.
What kind of external gain blocks?
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,296
Likes
5,074
Location
Nashville
Here is one such line level preamp which (I think) will do 6 channels in and six channels out with up to 24 db of gain woth what looks like a very good THD+N. It's all in German which I don't know at all, so maybe someone who reads it can tell me if I'm correct. Costs around $1200, so ouch, but would create an Octo with virtually unlimited gain (at least over 6 channels). I think.

 

Kal Rubinson

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
5,273
Likes
9,789
Location
NYC
Here is one such line level preamp which (I think) will do 6 channels in and six channels out with up to 24 db of gain woth what looks like a very good THD+N. It's all in German which I don't know at all, so maybe someone who reads it can tell me if I'm correct. Costs around $1200, so ouch, but would create an Octo with virtually unlimited gain (at least over 6 channels). I think.
Looks like a 2 channel controller with 3 outputs. They have another, more complex one, but it is equally unclear what it can do.
 
Top Bottom