Some questions about DACs, amps and m1070 headphones.

[Anemone]

Hi! I apologize if I'm asking this in the wrong forum, or if these sorts of questions don't belong on this site at all. I wanted to ask on this site, though, because I've been a bit financially burned recently by the subjectivity of the audio community.

First question: do I really need a DAC?
I read Amir's post and thread about "do I really need a DAC/AMP?" but I'm a huge newbie and I became extremely lost in the conversation. I have a Maximus Hero IX motherboard, and the DAC it uses is ESS Sabre Hi-Fi ES9023P. I'm not really sure if that helps, but does anyone know if I would notice any changes in sound quality by purchasing a Topping D10s, e.g. clearer or cleaner sound?

I feel like I should note that I'm using Windows drivers and not the Realtek drivers, because I am plagued with intermittent popping/crackling on the Realtek drivers. It's a known issue with the motherboard line that hasn't been addressed in years. I don't know if this affects the DAC or amp.

Second question: is the Liquid Spark amp enough to power the Monolith m1070?
I read some things about planar headphones being more difficult to drive because of current. I learned a little about this, but don't feel informed enough to make a good amp decision. I decided I need one, though, because my computer is struggling to power my headphones to higher volumes, especially with EQ. Could anyone tell me if the Liquid Spark amp would be enough to drive these headphones?
Links:
Amp
https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Liq...spark+amp&qid=1614166632&s=electronics&sr=1-1
Headphones
https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Hea...ith+m1070&qid=1614166655&s=electronics&sr=1-1

Third question: will a sufficient amp alter the sound delivery of my headphones (especially the lower frequencies) via adequate power?
My m1070s sounded extremely anemic to me in the lower frequencies before an EQ, even at higher volumes; a very far cry from what I would have imagined from people describing their sound. I'm unsure if this is in part because they aren't receiving adequate power.

 

[JustAnandaDourEyedDude]

Your questions are nicely phrased and framed, and you supply good background info, so kudos on that.

First question: do I really need a DAC?

Quite likely that you do not an external DAC, as your motherboard's DAC circuitry seems very good. The ES9023P seems like a pretty competent DAC chip, and ESS Technologies lists it as having a dynamic range up to 112 dB. Curiously, they do not list signal-to-noise ratio or total harmonic distortion numbers; and ASUS lists the playback SNR as an excellent 120 dB. If you do not hear any hissing noise, and the music sounds clean enough, the DAC part of the audio should be fine. The ES9023P is capable of 2V rms output, which is the desired standard for single-ended (unbalanced) Line Out to an amp. I guess you should be using the lime-green gold-plated audio output jack on the rear panel configured for stereo output rather than multichannel. If you hear ground loop noise or hum, or electromagnetic interference from other buses and components on the mobo, then an external DAC might help eliminate these, especially if your mobo audio provides a Toslink optical output. But Asus says it uses excellent shielding of the audio path, and you did not mention any such issues, and so an external DAC is not called for.

Second question: is the Liquid Spark amp enough to power the Monolith m1070?

Third question: will a sufficient amp alter the sound delivery of my headphones (especially the lower frequencies) via adequate power?

Yes, you would likely benefit from an external amplifier for the Monolith M1070 headphones. The M1070 seem to be unusually power-hungry; Monoprice lists their "optimal power requirement" as 200mW to 4W, which I assume is per earpiece. Asus do not list the power specs for your mobo's stereo output, but you have observed that the onboard audio struggles to power the M1070. The Monolith Liquid Spark (MLS) should be able to power the M1070 satisfactorily. The M1070 nominal specs are 60 ohm impedance and 96 dB sound pressure level (SPL) for 1 mW power input. The MLS will deliver about 600 mW of clean music signal max power into the M1070, which would give you ear-damaging levels of around 123 dB SPL. Even with the software EQ requiring a "pre-amp" gain of -6dB say, at maxed out volume the MLS would still take the M1070 to a very loud 117 dB SPL. Most folks would listen at the 70 to 85 dB average SPL range and only need up to a maximum of 105 to 110 dB peak SPL capability for short-time loud peaks in the music.

The M1070 seems a rather new model, and almost no measurements are available yet. I could find only one frequency response (FR) plot on the internet on forum.hifiguides, and even that was a cut-n-paste of an unreferenced original measurement. But if correct, that plot shows a steep roll-off in the lower/sub bass below 75 Hz, which could explain your feeling of anemia in the bass without EQing, particularly at lower listening volumes. As you seem to have done already, using software EQ to boost the M1070's bass is the first and best strategy to use. You should EQ it up until almost the point of audible driver distortion at the volumes you like. If this gives you satisfying bass at your normal listening levels, then you are all set with no further action needed.

If the EQ strategy still does not give you satisfying bass in bass-rich modern music genres, then you could use an external amp like MLS to raise the volume somewhat (while retaining the best software EQ you could apply for the M1070). The Fletcher-Munson equal-loudness curves show that the perceived balance between bass and mids/treble improves at higher volumes (SPL), due to improving the sensitivity of our hearing to bass relative to mids. The danger of increasing the volume level to get more satisfying bass is that you can easily wind up raising the volume to uncomfortable levels in the mid frequencies that can damage your hearing. Therefore, raising the volume significantly (perhaps using a more powerful amp) is not recommended for getting better bass perception from a bass-shy headphone. A better strategy at this point would be to consider selling off your M1070, and putting the money toward buying an excellent well-reviewed planar magnetic headphone in the same price range like the HiFiMan Sundara, or similar headphones (Meze 99 Classics, AKG K371, HiFiMan HE4XX, ...) with satisfactory bass frequency response from the get-go, that would need little if any EQ. Most if not all of these other headphones are much easier to drive than the M1070, and may not even need an external amp at all to get loud enough from your mobo's stereo jack. May be worthwhile to await more FR measurements of the M1070 to confirm that deficiency in bass response, before you think of selling the M1070.

While the Liquid Spark is a good HP amp, and was recommended by Amir in his review of it, there are better options at similar and slightly higher price points, such as the JDS Labs Atom, the Topping L30, Schiit Magni Heresy and a couple of others reviewed here at ASR. Though it should be noted that while their measured performance may be better, in practice you may not be able to hear a difference between them and the Liquid Spark. While the Liquid Spark is quite powerful, some of the other amps also deliver similar or greater power. When using an external amp, if there is an option to do so in the Asus Sonic or other software, you should set the stereo jack output to Line Out signal instead of Headphone Out. If no such option, then the stereo jack will be fine to use just the way it is.

 

[Anemone]

Wow, thanks so much for your thorough reply! It's been incredibly helpful!

m1070/EQ:
The EQ for my m1070 has been very successful, for me. I'm surprised at how well these headphones have responded to EQ, as most of my endeavors in the past with other headphones have lead to distortion pretty early on, or were just kind of unsatisfactory. They respond so well that I'm very confused as to why the factory tuning for them has such a sharp roll-off on sub-bass, but it is what it is.

They aren't perfect - slightly recessed mids at times, highs that could use just a tiny bit more identity in a crowd - but I'm not expecting perfection at this price range, or any price range, really.

I did consider Sundaras before I chose the m1070, but I was very worried about them being too bright for me and too bass-lite; although, I had read that they also respond well to bass EQ. There are other reasons I passed on the Sundaras, and other headphones, but I'm going to stop myself here before I end up rambling about the reasons behind my headphone selection.

My motherboard:
As for my motherboard's sound, I'm beginning to suspect that there's some sort of issue with it. It's difficult for me to put into words, and I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough about DACs to want to try and guess at the issue. If I were forced to describe it, it's like there's some kind of very subtle "peakiness" or "piercing", reminiscent of tinnitus, somewhere in the 4-9k range, even with aggressive EQ. It's an issue I've had with Sennheiser Game Ones, DT 770 80 ohms, Audeze Mobius using AUX, and now the m1070s. It could just be my ears overreacting to that range in general, but I'm really not sure.

My understanding is that DACs should be flat, or relatively so, so I don't understand why this would be an issue. Is there something about it that could be poorly made, resulting in a barely perceptible distortion? Is it possible that ASUS has chosen to color the sound? I don't know. I've only recently begun learning about these things, and it doesn't help that I don't have any reference points other than this motherboard.

Amp selection:
What made me select the Liquid Spark was its additional power in comparison to the JDS Atom, and as you shared, Amir stating that its trailing measurements would likely be imperceptible. Joshua Valour also said that the Schiit Magni compressed sound a bit, though from what I've learned about amps, this shouldn't happen?

If you're confident that the JDS Atom can power the m1070 without a struggle, I will lean toward purchasing that over the Liquid Spark. I just wish the Atom was available on Amazon (I'm very paranoid about returns, lol).


Thanks again for your awesome reply!

 

[JustAnandaDourEyedDude]

Wow, thanks so much for your thorough reply! It's been incredibly helpful!

You are welcome!

The EQ for my m1070 has been very successful, for me. I'm surprised at how well these headphones have responded to EQ, as most of my endeavors in the past with other headphones have lead to distortion pretty early on, or were just kind of unsatisfactory.

Glad the HPs EQ'd so well to give you satisfactory bass. No need to hunt for a different model of HP.

As for my motherboard's sound, I'm beginning to suspect that there's some sort of issue with it. It's difficult for me to put into words, and I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough about DACs to want to try and guess at the issue. If I were forced to describe it, it's like there's some kind of very subtle "peakiness" or "piercing", reminiscent of tinnitus, somewhere in the 4-9k range, even with aggressive EQ. It's an issue I've had with Sennheiser Game Ones, DT 770 80 ohms, Audeze Mobius using AUX, and now the m1070s. It could just be my ears overreacting to that range in general, but I'm really not sure.

My understanding is that DACs should be flat, or relatively so, so I don't understand why this would be an issue. Is there something about it that could be poorly made, resulting in a barely perceptible distortion? Is it possible that ASUS has chosen to color the sound? I don't know. I've only recently begun learning about these things, and it doesn't help that I don't have any reference points other than this motherboard.

It is quite possible that the SupremeFX audio by Asus is not neutral, since you hear the peakiness across multiple headphones. To be sure, they start off with a decent DAC chip ES9023P, but implementations vary in quality. Asus mentions little about the amp part and its output buffer circuitry, except that they use Nichicon caps. I did not see any objective measurements of the mobo audio online, so no way to know for sure. I am not a gamer, so do not have any gaming-oriented gear. But I find it plausible that the dac-amp's FR response may be tweaked slightly to boost the treble a bit. This gives a sharper edge to sounds, and provides the illusion of greater resolution. Or else there's some distortion introduced somewhere outside of the dac chip. And alas for you, you happen to be sensitive to it. This part is all speculation on my part, based on your reported experiences. Since you experience it across HPs, the Topping D10s you mentioned might be a good experiment to bypass the mobo's onboard audio processing. It measures very well, low distortion and noise and very neutral FR, and at relatively low cost for its performance.

What made me select the Liquid Spark was its additional power in comparison to the JDS Atom, and as you shared, Amir stating that its trailing measurements would likely be imperceptible. Joshua Valour also said that the Schiit Magni compressed sound a bit, though from what I've learned about amps, this shouldn't happen?

If you're confident that the JDS Atom can power the m1070 without a struggle, I will lean toward purchasing that over the Liquid Spark. I just wish the Atom was available on Amazon (I'm very paranoid about returns, lol).

I dislike the uncertainty of product returns, too. Monoprice's stated power sensitivity (96dB for 1 mW) if it is to be believed, would indicate that the JDS Labs Atom should be able to drive the M1070 to 123dB. However, this assumes linear scaling with power input to the HP, which would also mean that 4W of electrical power per channel to the M1070 would drive them to 132dB which would render listeners permanently deaf in short order. So I find it a little peculiar that Monoprice is willing to state that the "optimal power requirement" is 200mW to 4W, knowing that consequent hearing damage could result in liability for them. It could be that the power efficiency is not constant, but falls off with increasing power levels, so that even 4W would not produce actual instantly deafening SPL levels. The JDS Labs Atom would produce a max power of about 605mW into 60 ohms, the Liquid Spark in High Gain mode about 847mW and the Schiit Heresy in High Gain mode about 1300mW (1.3W). The Atom of course provides this with SOTA low distortion and noise. But the Heresy provides higher power at low distortion and noise SINAD of about 96dB (CD quality) over the entire range of power you would use it over, and in practice you would be unable to hear any distortion or noise and distinguish it audibly from the Atom. Whereas, the Liquid Spark has rising distortion with increasing power starting at just 20mW and winds up with SINAD of just 66dB at its max power, which could be audible distortion for you. So the Liquid Spark is beaten by the Heresy on both counts (max power, and distortion). In your place, I would tend to opt for the Heresy over the other two. Very good performance and the most power (hedging your bets as to how much power the M1070 really need), for a low cost. You can always dial down the volume if the Heresy proves overpowering at its max volume level. Either the Atom or the Heresy is a good option, though. Pay no heed to what the YouTube subjective reviewers say. Many of them earnestly believe what they say, but they are under pressure to make small distinctions among products, without anything reliable to base such distinctions on. They would get no views if they told their audience in 30 seconds that each new competently designed dac or amp sounds just the same as every other dac or amp. Amir's measurements show that the Heresy is neutral, low distortion and low noise, and is well designed and manufactured. How on earth would an amp induce dynamic compression in music? It takes sophisticated circuitry or pre-processing to do the dynamic range compression.

 

[Anemone]

I'm sorry for the late reply. You've shared another awesomely helpful post! I know that I haven't made specific light of it, but I feel like I've learned a lot from your replies and it has helped clear up my decision making. That you take the time to break down why something might function or not is far more helpful than the usual subjective take.

What you wrote gave me the confidence (I'm prone to analysis paralysis) to experiment with the Topping D10s and see if my motherboard is what's been offending my ears, so I've ordered one. I do play games, but I'm not necessarily partial to "gaming gear" over other options; the motherboard was part of a computer that was given to me. With that said, I'm aware that audio equipment marketed toward gamers often has a high frequency bias/tweak for better resolution of footsteps or other environmental cues. It didn't occur to me the same might have been done to a motherboard's DAC.

I was also about to order a Heresy, but then a friend offered to send me an iFi Zen CAN that he was moving on from. I hope that can handle these headphones well; from what Amir wrote about the Zen DAC, my confidence isn't inspired in the CAN, though I admit I'm very curious about the "Xbass" button and realize that this is a different amp from the one in the DAC. If the CAN doesn't work out, I will definitely order a Heresy, as per your suggestion.

What you said about YouTube reviewers also makes a lot of sense to me. I think I fell prey to a moment of wishful thinking, or paranoia, or something like that.

Thank you again for the time you've taken. The pertinence and detail in your posts has been super refreshing for me.