Some pictures from Sound galleries in BMW world

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

Heat sinks was milled out of a kobber block.

Alu was not efficient enough and it got the system stalling

We did hear a comparison between a non converted PCM and a DSD converted PCM file but it was not a 100% correct way of doing it as the PCM path goes through a PCM 1795 DAC and the DSD goes through a discrete section. Would have been better if the DAC used was running in bypass like a cirrus or wolfson DAC

 

[Mivera]

Heat sinks was milled out of a kobber block.

Alu was not efficient enough and it got the system stalling

We did hear a comparison between a non converted PCM and a DSD converted PCM file but it was not a 100% correct way of doing it as the PCM path goes through a PCM 1795 DAC and the DSD goes through a discrete section. Would have been better if the DAC used was running in bypass like a cirrus or wolfson DAC

Isn't the whole point of the sound galleries server when used with the T+A DAC 8 DSD, to upsample PCM to DSD 512, and send through the discrete DSD section? This is what Eurodriver (Ed) has been raving about on every forum for weeks. Do you have any impressions of this result? How is this not a correct way to do things? You don't need a bypass mode if you are using a discrete 1 bit DSD DAC. The DSD path is already discrete. However what baffles me is if it's truly a pure DSD path on the T+A DAC 8 DSD, how do they apply the DSD filters in the FPGA?

Any price on the server?

 

[Mivera]

Here's some info on the Sound galleries server. However I see no price. I heard it will be 10000 Euros, but that was only a rumor.

http://soundgalleries.com/product/sgm-2015/

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

I don't think that this was the first intention to upsample to DSD 512 but it happend to be a huge step for them.. I must admit that i have not asked about how with what they compared DSD 512 to DSD 256. My first impression was that everything was in place but i fell it lacked transparency and air from the midrange and up. As you know i am a big fan of class D as they have a curtain from the midrange and up. But as i do not have the T+A DAC 8 DSD, the Taiko amp,or Vivid Speakers, it is a bit difficult to draw a conclusion on that. .

We did a comparison of Miles Davis "kind of blue" track 1 "So what". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kind_of_Blue Where the original Material was in Reedbook Flac from Tidal. Now you cannot extract more information that is already present in material but by using DSD the Signal Path through the DAC is more clean meaning that you will hear contest that have been masked in the PCM playback path. And that was what happend. Not something you had to guess or think you hear.. It was right there on the spot. But again, it is two different signal path through two completely different DAC's... It is not ideal comparison.

To you credit Michael. Running Tidal->Roon->HQPlayer->USB was running smooth on the I7.


You are most likely right about the price, because the used 16 kg of kobber and the heatsinks are milled. They have used 5ppm crystal meaning they have to order a complete reel with 500 - 1000 crystals. Non standard power supplies. Nice chassis... It all adds up.

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

On the other hand, the system would be in the top 10 category of what i have heard on the MOC.

 

[Mivera]

I see they used Hypex NC-500 based amps. Any details on the input buffer implementation? How about sound impressions?

http://soundgalleries.com/product/kodo/

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

I wrote:
My first impression was that everything was in place but i fell it lacked transparency and air from the midrange and up. As you know i am a big fan of class D as they have a curtain from the midrange and up. But as i do not have the T+A DAC 8 DSD, the Taiko amp,or Vivid Speakers, it is a bit difficult to draw a conclusion on that.

They told us that the parts have been voiced on each amp. So they had an extra set with them. The extra set had another voicing they told us but they where not connected. And they have a session for the press later, so they was not in the mood for switching between them which i can understand.

I would very much have tried the amps up against mine, and i think the result would be that they have a curtain. That was my impression. But hey system costing a lot lot more on the show was worse than than..

One thing i could say is that Estellon YB with the new Estellon unkown source/amp sounds very good and give this system hard competition.

 

[Mivera]

I don't think that this was the first intention to upsample to DSD 512 but it happend to be a huge step for them.. I must admit that i have not asked about how with what they compared DSD 512 to DSD 256. My first impression was that everything was in place but i fell it lacked transparency and air from the midrange and up. As you know i am a big fan of class D as they have a curtain from the midrange and up. But as i do not have the T+A DAC 8 DSD, the Taiko amp,or Vivid Speakers, it is a bit difficult to draw a conclusion on that. .

We did a comparison of Miles Davis "kind of blue" track 1 "So what". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kind_of_Blue Where the original Material was in Reedbook Flac from Tidal. Now you cannot extract more information that is already present in material but by using DSD the Signal Path through the DAC is more clean meaning that you will hear contest that have been masked in the PCM playback path. And that was what happend. Not something you had to guess or think you hear.. It was right there on the spot. But again, it is two different signal path through two completely different DAC's... It is not ideal comparison.

To you credit Michael. Running Tidal->Roon->HQPlayer->USB was running smooth on the I7.


You are most likely right about the price, because the used 16 kg of kobber and the heatsinks are milled. They have used 5ppm crystal meaning they have to order a complete reel with 500 - 1000 crystals. Non standard power supplies. Nice chassis... It all adds up.

It doesn't really matter if it's going through 2 separate DAC's internally. What matters is if better sound is heard from PCM if it's upsampled to DSD with Hqplayer and sent through the DSD section. How it's done whether through a DSD bypass mode on a single chip, or a discrete DSD section is irrelevant. A DAC chip with a DSD bypass mode is like 2 DAC's just the same anyways. Just because it's all on 1 piece of silicon who cares really. For people buying a T+A DAC 8 DSD, getting the best sound from it will be #1 priority. Not how the internal implementation is done.

Now do you really think that the copper heatsinks, and upgraded clock would make a difference with the PD2?

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

Now do you really think that the copper heatsinks, and upgraded clock would make a difference with the PD2?

??????????

No, i was only referring what could have been the reason for the high cost.

 

[Mivera]

??????????

No, i was only referring what could have been the reason for the high cost.

Yes but I'm wondering if you think the upgrades, mainly to the clock could even make a difference with the PD2 as the clock in the server is irrelevant with Async USB. Especially with reclocker like the PD2 has. There's many ways to make a product more expensive, but if it doesn't result in better real world performance, it's irrelevant to me.

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

Yes but I'm wondering if you think the upgrades, mainly to the clock could even make a difference with the PD2 as the clock in the unit is irrelevant with Async USB. Especially with reclocker like the PD2 has. There's many ways to make a product more expensive, but if it doesn't result in better real world performance, it's irrelevant to me.

I can only agree with you. And no i do not think its matter if we are using ASYNC USB.

 

[Mivera]

As far as the results with their NC-500 based amps, it's all in the input stage implementation. I can see they have also copied my concept of being able to tune the buffer stage to taste as a few others have also done, but doing an exceptional job at it is another story. You can drastically alter the sound of those amps with the input stage.

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

To break it down:

Heatsinks of copper for fast heat transfer or at least heatpipes - YES
Ultra stable disk - YES
Power supply that has high and fast current capability - YES
Trimmed OS - YES
DMA and optimized Hardware path for DISK and USB - YES
Stable RAM - YES
The rest - NO

 

[Mivera]

To break it down:

Heatsinks of copper for fast heat transfer or at least heatpipes - YES
Ultra stable disk - YES
Power supply that has high and fast current capability - YES
Trimmed OS - YES
DMA and optimized Hardware path for DISK and USB - YES
Stable RAM - YES
The rest - NO

Copper heatsinks are irrelevant if you have adequate cooling of the CPU anyways. Use whatever gets the job done.

The power supply has made differences with me as well, however I think this is less important with the PD2 and the galvaniclly isolated, reclocked USB interface.

Windows is subpar as an OS for audio compared to purpose built command line Linux with no GUI running, no matter how well Windows is optimized in my experience. Also with the PD2, it limits you to DoP 128 for DSD.

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

As far as the results with their NC-500 based amps, it's all in the input stage implementation. I can see they have also copied my concept of being able to tune the buffer stage to taste as a few others have also done, but doing an exceptional job at it is another story. You can drastically alter the sound of those amps with the input stage.

Simulate on an opamp discrete or integrated by driving a source into the output through a impedance that matches the hypex. Then let the source generate a squarewave.... Now you will see wonders of the world.

 

[Mivera]

Simulate on an opamp discrete or integrated by driving a source into the output through a impedance that matches the hypex. Then let the source generate a squarewave.... Now you will see wonders of the world.

It would be nice to see measured results from any of the NC-500 based amps on the market. So far I haven't seen any.

 

[Phison Audio - Sonny]

Copper heatsinks are irrelevant if you have adequate cooling of the CPU anyways. Use whatever gets the job done.

The power supply has made differences with me as well, however I think this is less important with the PD2 and the galvaniclly isolated, reclocked USB interface.

Windows is subpar as an OS for audio compared to purpose built command line Linux with no GUI running, no matter how well Windows is optimized in my experience. Also with the PD2, it limits you to DoP 128 for DSD.

No, only if you do a speedstep, the heattransfer should be able to pick up the fast change in power consumption.

 

[Mivera]

One more question about the server. Does it run 100% headless with no monitor, keyboard or mouse? Or is it just like any old Windows based PC, only with the fancy upgrades?

 

[Mivera]

No, only if you do a speedstep, the heattransfer should be able to pick up the fast change in power consumption.

As long as the maximum CPU temperature at all times is far below the maximum temp the CPU can handle, I think this is okay. The 6700K has a 91W TDP. So in this situation, copper may have been needed to go fanless if using a simple heatpipe heatsink design.