Some info about Topping's incoming DX1 II

[snadge]

I did get a reply from Topping, they are aware of the issue (48khz distortion after time) and engineers are working on a fix.

Regarding the random noise issue, we have noticed this situation and have already reported it to the relevant engineers. We will fix this issue as soon as possible.

Interestingly, they also replied about the popping/crackling issue.

Regarding the pop noise that occurs when starting audio playback from the line output, we recommend trying the following:
If there is only slight distortion, it is normal. If the distortion is relatively obvious, you can try the following:

1. Set both the source volume and the device volume to maximum, and use the downstream device to adjust the volume. If it is connected to a computer, please make sure the computer system volume, playback software volume, and driver volume are all set to maximum.
2. If the connected speaker has a sensitivity adjustment, you can also try lowering the sensitivity.
3. Try connecting the RCA output to another device.

If the distortion is still relatively obvious after checking the above points, you can send the unit back to us for inspection.

On Windows or Linux, by default, you have a "desktop" (or graph) sampling rate, which everything gets upsampled or downsampled to. Unless the audio application exclusively opens the audio device and changes the sampling rate. At which point, you expect there to be a pop/click when it initialises the new sampling rate.

I have pipewire set to change the desktop rate if the audio system is idle, to match what is being requested. This is non default behaviour, and I guess it is to be expected that if the sampling rate changes, then you will hear an audible click, and that is mostly unavoidable. This is convenient though, if I play an audio CD then obviously I would want 44.1khz. If I'm watching youtube videos, then I would want it to be 48khz. If I play a 96khz studio master, then I would expect it to match the source sampling rate. You ideally want to avoid resampling, unless it's necessary. This is why we have hifi devices that have the ability to change their sampling rates to match the input source.

Perhaps some of you set an absurdly high sampling rate for this reason, and then rely on a sinc algorithm to push any noise beyond what is actually audible.

TLDR.. Ultra distortion is known to Topping and getting fixed. Pops and clicks are a fact of life when dynamically changing sampling rates, and have devices which suspend due to inactivity.

 

[Mike123]

Screenshots from Audacity. Small spikes at the beginning of the signal recording shouldn't be taken into account. This is due to the infallible Windows software failing to generate/record continuously on its 6-core, 12-stream processor when running another software. It produced short gaps. This isn't the DAC's fault.

Well done, programmers . There's a clear case of register overflow or erroneous use of signed/unsigned variables.

 

[Mike123]

I'm also attaching a sample of the WAV file with the problem. Anyone who's in contact with Topping can forward this file or point him to the thread for information that might help with the search bug.

 

[Mike123]

I turned on the recording again and saw that the DAC had been clicking for over an hour. So, the problem, once it appeared, never went away. This allows me to confidently say that this same DAC worked at a sampling frequency of 176 kHz for 7 hours without errors. So, to use this DAC until a firmware update (and possibly more than once ), you can simply resample. This DAC operates at 48 kHz from my TV via the optical input. I'm sure I've listened to TV shows for over an hour without experiencing this. But I can try for a few more hours this evening. It's likely a problem with the USB input only.

 

[Janox]

I turned on the recording again and saw that the DAC had been clicking for over an hour. So, the problem, once it appeared, never went away. This allows me to confidently say that this same DAC worked at a sampling frequency of 176 kHz for 7 hours without errors. So, to use this DAC until a firmware update (and possibly more than once ), you can simply resample. This DAC operates at 48 kHz from my TV via the optical input. I'm sure I've listened to TV shows for over an hour without experiencing this. But I can try for a few more hours this evening. It's likely a problem with the USB input only.

Occasionally there is a loud pop at 48kHz on the optical input from the TV.

 

[Mike123]

Occasionally there is a loud pop at 48kHz on the optical input from the TV.

What I've observed is that when the DAC enters fault mode, it clicks every few seconds. This isn't just random. Moreover, as you can see from the spectrograms, the DAC's negative half-wave disappears. This leads to either very loud pop sounds in amplifiers or even triggering the DC voltage protection at the output. So I think it's a different cause, namely, loss of synchronization of the optical input. I haven't observed this on my TV. Perhaps I'll check it out. Although, if Topping is already addressing this issue, further testing would make sense after the new firmware is released.

 

[sansenri]

Not sure if your comment was directed at my post but if it was, I never said Topping should be banned from anything. My comments to date have been aimed at Topping's approach to releases, based on the DX5 II and the DX1 II, which AFAIK are the two most recent DAC/AMP combos they've released. I don't own either but have been relying on user reports to decide whether I would purchase either. Everyone has different criteria and thresholds for purchasing products. In my case, my threshold has not been met and and I would hope Topping takes the feedback on board for future releases. If the product has worked flawlessly for you then that's great!


Again, not sure if that's directed at my post, but I never said it was a "permanent failure and a write-off" and certainly not in any objective or general sense. Based on the DX5 II history, there's a decent probability Topping will eventually fix all issues but again, it's their approach that's problematic for me. If I buy a product at retail, I expect it to be fully functional with at most, minor issues. Sure, what is "minor" is for each to judge themselves but based on the user reports, I would not consider them minor but fundamental and I would expect to encounter issues in at least some of my usage scenarios, hence why I have not purchased it. Buying a product and waiting for it to be fixed is more akin to a preorder or kickstarter to me. Again, it's all about each individual's thresholds and expectations.

It depends on whether you consider their approach to fixes to be adequate but for me, their history of fixing the noise/crackling falls short.

I'm basing it on the DX5 II release and the user reports regarding the DX1 II and the history of attempted firmware fixes. IIRC, DX5 II user reports were on two threads:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-balanced-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.64264/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-dx5-ii.60996/

Whether those combined indicates a pattern is debatable but it's sufficient for me, as I expected them to learn from the DX5 II release and was looking forward to the DX1 II being a smooth, easy purchase decision.

Regarding tons of products on the market, I interpret the weight of that differently. Precisely because they have tons of products on the market and brand recognition, I expected better from both releases. If on the other hand it was a startup or a kickstarter, I'd be more inclined to be forgiving. I also have no way to tell if the company today is the same as the company that released previously successful products. It may be that key personnel are no longer with them.

I share your point of view 100%. I don't own either, I might be interested in the DX1 II (as I own the DX1 and find it works fine with no issues to date), but not until it is proven that most of reported issues have been fixed. I agree, it is a personal choice, so there is no right or wrong choice, mine is to hold on to my small portion of cash, and let other more inclined to risk users fund the troobleshooting costs... Likely, time is on our side.

 

[Mike123]

I run a morning test at a sampling rate of 96 kHz for three hours. No problems. So, the problem is only with 48 kHz.

 

[ATTI]

To study the problem, we need to create a separate thread with a request to repeat the experiment with long-term listening with USB connection to 48K content from YouTube(Music) and a poll with points like OS (Win/Linux/Mac) with 48K setting in system mixer, output settings (LO/PO/LO+PO), DAC mode (-d or -p), PEQ selection, Pops/Clicks/Distortion (No/Yes). With attached recorded cut of clicks/distortion for expamle.

 

[mdmower]

To study the problem, we need to create a separate thread with ...

I would be surprised if Mike123's reports in this thread are insufficient for Topping to identify the issue. Given the ease of reproducing the issue, another thread seems unnecessary.

 

[ATTI]

Seems to me not all owners faced with this 48K USB playback issue.

 

[sphenicstands]

Pops and clicks are a fact of life when dynamically changing sampling rates

Doesn't this depend on their chosen design and is only a fact of life for the DX1 II due to its design? I have an old gen1 Audioengine D1 DAC and a similar Linux config to you I think. I don't know much about pipewire but I set the following and pw-top seems to show the sampling rate changing depending on the source:

default.clock.allowed-rates = [ 48000 44100 88200 96000 192000 ]

With the Audioengine, when the sampling rate changes on USB input, there is no pop or click. However, for optical input, there is a noticeable click when the sampling rate changes but it sounds like a relay from the physical device rather than anything on line or headphone out.

Perhaps it could be mitigated with a fast mute/unmute whenever the device re-initializes or starts streaming

I'm pretty sure I've experienced muting of the initial start of playback with the Audioengine but I'm not sure under what conditions it occurs and whether it was with USB or optical in. It could be the DAC goes to sleep after being idle for a time. I'll have to look out for it next time. I believe I've read the term "muting circuit" in connection with other DACs so I think it's a genuine technique?

I don't know anything about DAC design so I don't know if pops/clicks are unavoidable as a tradeoff with the feature set the DX1 II theoretically offers but I find it ironic that an old DAC that doesn't support firmware updates can do some things the more modern DX1 II can't, including reliably converting D to A without any audible distortion. This is why I'm adamant in my view that the DX1 II is failing at its core function.

 

[mr_samsonite]

My unit reliably pops on the RCA outputs each time I change the sample rate. Pretty annoying issue for an otherwise awesome little unit. Hopefully it's addressable via a firmware fix.

 

[sansenri]

Doesn't this depend on their chosen design and is only a fact of life for the DX1 II due to its design? I have an old gen1 Audioengine D1 DAC and a similar Linux config to you I think. I don't know much about pipewire but I set the following and pw-top seems to show the sampling rate changing depending on the source:

default.clock.allowed-rates = [ 48000 44100 88200 96000 192000 ]

With the Audioengine, when the sampling rate changes on USB input, there is no pop or click. However, for optical input, there is a noticeable click when the sampling rate changes but it sounds like a relay from the physical device rather than anything on line or headphone out.


I'm pretty sure I've experienced muting of the initial start of playback with the Audioengine but I'm not sure under what conditions it occurs and whether it was with USB or optical in. It could be the DAC goes to sleep after being idle for a time. I'll have to look out for it next time. I believe I've read the term "muting circuit" in connection with other DACs so I think it's a genuine technique?

I don't know anything about DAC design so I don't know if pops/clicks are unavoidable as a tradeoff with the feature set the DX1 II theoretically offers but I find it ironic that an old DAC that doesn't support firmware updates can do some things the more modern DX1 II can't, including reliably converting D to A without any audible distortion. This is why I'm adamant in my view that the DX1 II is failing at its core function.

same here, I own an Audioengine D1, which is my desktop dac, connected via USB to my PC.
It never clicks, ever.
Regretfully its volume output is low for me, so I run its line output through a headphone amp.

 

[Janox]

My DX1 II makes a loud clicking and humming sound into the RCA output when switching off, switching PEQ, changing the sample rate and when turning off the signal source (DVD, CD player, TV). It's annoying, I sent Topping a video of this problem, hopefully they will fix it.

 

[pier25]

I've mostly used mine at 48k so hopefully they will fix these issues with a firmware update.

I do hear small clicks all the time when changing the volume with the front knob. Hopefully they will add some sort of smoothing there because it's annoying.

 

[Bleib]

New firmware out on

Topping Home - Preset Cloud

Explore and share audio presets with the Topping Home community

home.toppingaudio.com

V15.83.22.83 Firmware Release Notes​

• Fixed: Random noise that could occur after playing audio via USB input for a period of time.

installing..

 

[mr_samsonite]

Based on the releases notes I did not expect V15.83.22.83 to fix my issue (RCA pop on sample rate change) and indeed, it did not.

 

[Soundproof]

Firmware 22.83 solved it for me, all good. Topping Store and Topping Service department both have been excellent as my issues - no sound out - was chalked off as a probable hardware failure by them and me.

 

[redjr]

It is now available for order at taobao China. The price is CNY769, approx. USD113.

Edit: The early bird price is CNY649, approx. USD95

Beware of Taobao. I lost $280 several years ago - basically just stole my money. I subsequently placed another order, but used a buying agent and it was delivered - but at a higher cost.