Some actually believe that music from different drive types (SSD,HDD) or different SATA cables can sound different

[Jarrett]

Well just going to unsubscribe. Wanted to see various a/b measurements, not conversation.

 

[dasdoing]

We used to do that all the time. They were called tape backup drives and were the only way to store large amounts of data offline or near offline storage. I had a Sony Datcorder that saved music in digital form to tape that I used for years. The benefit of digital .wav files is that I could make instant and perfect copies - multiple backups, convert to other formats and burn to CDs. That was all we had until hard drives got large and fast enough to allow using them for storage.

here is the latest tech: https://www.amazon.com/StoreEver-LT.../B0BCNTVXQC/ref=psdc_1292110011_t2_B07CWDL6DK
our chinese friends are missing out

 

[2ndHarm]

"the world's only NVMe M2 SSD designed for audiophiles and music lovers" because no one else is so stupid to think streaming kBps needs special technology.

I think we find in the real world here that people have little understanding about how music is digitized then streamed to and from digital media. Our modern drives can move gigabits/sec. and there are still people who think there would be differences streaming music that requires 1/1000 of that speed.
It's like looking for cars that are better at moving 5 miles per hours better than others at that speed when they can all easily reach 90 miles per hour.
I like to have conversations with these folk so I can understand what their thinking is. It's elitist to just make fun of them, or diss their comments without knowing where they are coming from.
It's difficult though - since many people see asking questions as just an attempt to look for holes in their opinions or to accuse others of "not understanding."

 

[2ndHarm]

here is the latest tech: https://www.amazon.com/StoreEver-LT.../B0BCNTVXQC/ref=psdc_1292110011_t2_B07CWDL6DK
our chinese friends are missing out

That's awesome. But I would imagine there are cheaper options. However, even at that price - a cartridge costs $100-200 for 18-45 TB and would enable a way to securely store huge amounts of data for a reasonable price.

 

[Head_Unit]

So did any of these folks attempt to store the bits on good old magnetic tape?

Actually the earliest digital systems put the bits on video tape
Best results were obtained when the tape cases were molded out of green plastic. Because it's more eco-friendly, so the bits were warmer, and healthier to boot.

 

[radix]

I think we find in the real world here that people have little understanding about how music is digitized then streamed to and from digital media. Our modern drives can move gigabits/sec. and there are still people who think there would be differences streaming music that requires 1/1000 of that speed.
It's like looking for cars that are better at moving 5 miles per hours better than others at that speed when they can all easily reach 90 miles per hour.
I like to have conversations with these folk so I can understand what their thinking is. It's elitist to just make fun of them, or diss their comments without knowing where they are coming from.
It's difficult though - since many people see asking questions as just an attempt to look for holes in their opinions or to accuse others of "not understanding."

Yes, I was kind of harsh. I would hope people are more thrift with their money than to buy into these things just because the manufacturer or sales person says so.

Do I buy over-valued stuff? Sure. But I hope most of the time I do it realizing I'm buying it because I want it for some non-technical reason, not because it's going to do something magical for me.

 

[Keith_W]

Well just going to unsubscribe. Wanted to see various a/b measurements, not conversation.

That is a good point. We need measurements.

Actually, this is something that Amir could already do (although I have no idea how he would do it) ... test whether the output from a computer is more jittery than the output from say, an average streamer. I am sure that he has both devices at home.

 

[radix]

That is a good point. We need measurements.

Actually, this is something that Amir could already do (although I have no idea how he would do it) ... test whether the output from a computer is more jittery than the output from say, an average streamer. I am sure that he has both devices at home.

I think the ask was to determine if the output of a computer (e.g. via USB) to a DAC makes an audible difference if the media is stored on an SSD vs a hard disk.

It's pretty hard to do, as the OS will memory cache, and most hard disks have RAM caches too. I guess if you have a library with 100,000 songs and play them in a random order, you could essentially get around those issues and observe normal system behavior when playing random songs from a large library. Though another test would be to play related songs (i.e. album by album) and see if that makes a difference. So, maybe OS and and HD caches don't matter in that regard, as all one cares about is overall performance of the USB output.

Obviously, one needs to clearly define what is the experiment, is it relevant, how to measure it, and what does "audible difference" mean.

 

[Keith_W]

To be honest, I am not interested in whether some SATA cable is more or less jittery than another one, or whether SSD's are more or less jittery than HDD's, because I have already made up my mind that it can't possibly make a difference I am more interested in whether output from a computer is more or less jittery than say, from a CD player or a streamer. Ideally, a super high end streamer like a Taiko ... but then nobody is going to send Amir a Taiko and I don't think it is reasonable to ask him to shell out USD$30k to buy one.

 

[ahofer]

Although only a dozen yuan, the improvement achieved is more than that of replacing the PC power cord with 1K."

Could be absolutely true.

 

[dasdoing]

That's awesome. But I would imagine there are cheaper options. However, even at that price - a cartridge costs $100-200 for 18-45 TB and would enable a way to securely store huge amounts of data for a reasonable price.

Actually the earliest digital systems put the bits on video tape
Best results were obtained when the tape cases were molded out of green plastic. Because it's more eco-friendly, so the bits were warmer, and healthier to boot.

Hold on, everyone! I've discovered a surefire way for all of us to become ridiculously wealthy. Let's revive vacuum tube RAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selectron_tube

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[fpitas]

Hold on, everyone! I've discovered a surefire way for all of us to become ridiculously wealthy. Let's revive vacuum tube RAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selectron_tube

Vacuum tubes will warm up the harsh, cold bits you can hear with digital.

 

[dasdoing]

Vacuum tubes will warm up the harsh, cold bits you can hear with digital.

Oh, vacuum tubes, the warm and cozy blankets for those harsh, cold digital bits!

 

[fpitas]

Let's be real. Believing that a cable has magical qualities, unmeasurable by science, is dumber than believing an SSD might sound different.

 

[antcollinet]

Hold on, everyone! I've discovered a surefire way for all of us to become ridiculously wealthy. Let's revive vacuum tube RAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selectron_tube

Hey - that's a bit high tech. We need mercury delay line memory...

Delay-line memory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[fpitas]

Hey - that's a bit high tech. We need mercury delay line memory...

Delay-line memory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I bet Heavy Metal sounds really natural.

 

[radix]

Hey - that's a bit high tech. We need mercury delay line memory...

Delay-line memory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nah, it's analog DSPs are the future, forget all that digital stuff.

Therefore, the old idea of all-analog computing and signal processing has been recently revived, driven by the development of cost-efficient nanofabrication techniques and promising related advances in ultrafast optics.

Topological analog signal processing - Nature Communications

Analog signal processors could potentially offer faster operation and lower power consumption than digital versions, but are not yet commonly used for large scale applications due to considerable observational errors. Here, the authors demonstrate the unique relevance of topological insulators...

www.nature.com

Really, that's serious. Optical digital circuits.

 

[dasdoing]

Hey - that's a bit high tech. We need mercury delay line memory...

Delay-line memory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

but does it provide the warmth of the tubes?

 

[antcollinet]

but does it provide the warmth of the tubes?

The mercury is in a tube FFS - and about 3m long at that.

 

[radix]

The mercury is in a tube FFS - and about 3m long at that.

And you can build a Minecraft delay line memory