If the subwoofer driver only need to cover to 63 Hz, per ANSI/CTA-2010-B, it is acceptable to have a maximum HD2 of -15 dB.What is the difference between a subwoofer that is inside the Salon2 and an external subwoofer in the context of distortion if both are emitting the same range of frequencies. I don't understand your point?
I need to read the standard to understand. So far you are not making sense to me. Why would a frequency range affect HD? Why is that only happens on low frequency drivers but not on high frequency ones as well?If the subwoofer driver only need to cover to 63 Hz, per ANSI/CTA-2010-B, it is acceptable to have a maximum HD2 of -15 dB.
If it has to cover to 160 Hz, the threshold tightens to -24 dB. That means, if the driver has to reproduce both frequencies bands, the "bottleneck" is the 80-160 Hz octave HD+noise limit of -24 dB. It cannot run the <63 Hz frequencies to levels that produces -15 dB of HD2, since if it does that it will cause the >80 Hz frequencies to distort beyond the acceptable limit of -24 dB.
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My last try.I need to read the standard to understand. So far you are not making sense to me. Why would a frequency range affect HD? Why is that only happens on low frequency drivers but not on high frequency ones as well?
A is the dB SPL that results in 17.8% distortions, and B is the dB SPL that results in 6.3% distortions. Thus A > B (i.e. A is louder than B).@NTK isn't the third bullet incorrect? 6.3% distortion (B) seems better than 17.8% (A) to me.
D'oh -- sorry, brain fade.A is the dB SPL that results in 17.8% distortions, and B is the dB SPL that results in 6.3% distortions. Thus A > B (i.e. A is louder than B).
Then why buy a full range speaker like Salon2?
Mine won’t close a small imperfection in a great speakerWhat's up with the door on the binding posts? No way it closes when using banana plugs. During such a long production run, I thought this would have been "fixed"?
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First of all, thank you for bearing with me. I appreciate your explanation.My last try.
- If a speaker driver plays a tone at 63 Hz at A dB SPL, and it produces a THD of -15 dB (= 17.8%).
- If the same speaker driver plays a tone at 63 Hz at B dB SPL, and it produces a THD of -24 dB (= 6.3%).
- Under most practical circumstances, we can easily conclude that A > B.
- If the speaker driver plays a tone at 63 Hz at B dB SPL, while simultaneously play another tone at 150 Hz, the additional distortion products at frequencies above 150 Hz tone will be > -24 dB, relative to the amplitude of the 150 Hz tone.
- Thus, this speaker driver will not be able to play both the 63 Hz and 150 Hz tones, and have < -24 dB total distortion products above 150 Hz if it is playing the 63 Hz tone at > B dB SPL.
- Therefore, this speaker driver will not be able to reproduce 63 Hz at B dB SPL (let alone A dB SPL) if it also have to play a 150 Hz tone at any level to an acceptable distortion level (-24 dB). When the speaker driver is playing the 63 Hz at B dB SPL, it is already operating in the nonlinear region that playing any other tones on top of it will result in > -24 dB additional distortion products (relative to the new tone).
- If the 63 Hz duty is offloaded to the sub(s), this limitation is removed. The sub(s) in the combined system can reproduce A dB SPL of 63 Hz (or higher) and the mains can reproduce the 150 Hz to its original capacity.
Have you tried feeding only the LFE to the sub and left Salon2 full range?My 2c, Salon doesn't need subs when playing 2 ch music.
I do use subs when I changes to HT mode though, crossed at std 80hz and they also play LFE content.
Why should I? He also has Salon2.You should ask Floyd Toole that question.
Might be a reference to the photos of his old room showing multiple subwoofersWhy should I? He also has Salon2.
No but that is an excellent point and will have to try that, having only had the Alt 16 for a few weeks I'm still trying to figure things out.Have you tried feeding only the LFE to the sub and left Salon2 full range?
Why should I? He also has Salon2.
They are equivalent to 14" drivers in each.By internet standards the subwoofers were not monsters, either - 12" woofers in relatively small closed boxes.
How do you cross over between Salon2 and the sub? (What is LP?)I just listened to my usual test tracks. I can control the sub from my LP. After playing tracks repeatedly, with the sub at various levels, including off, I prefer it with the sub at -15 dB. I'm not qualifying or quantifying beyond that, so clearly in the realm of subjectivity... not to mention the path of least resistance by a good margin. I'll continue to try to wrap my brain around the technical insights being generously offered here... but I can't let it get in the way of my escape into the music. That's where I am in this moment... however ephemeral both it and the notes contained within may be... so here I sit... with a foolish grin... keeping perfectly still... just an old fool on a hill. I came to ASR with an open mind... and that remains so... but it's hard to prefer a sound knowing that it's not the Grail... but so far, that's the case.
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