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BDWoody

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Flaps down. That's all you have in it to slow down and adjust descent rate. Every landing is a new adventure.

Do you use slips to drop altitude?

One of the things my instructor did very early on in my training was to cut the throttle at some point on almost every landing. Got to where i'd just pull it back myself and dead stick in with a tight pattern. Was fantastic practice. His thought was that once you get to the pattern, you should be able to land on the damn runway no matter what the engine decides to do.
 
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RayDunzl

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Wowow. It has very different geometry on those wings. That's got to make it very different to fly I think.

Not too bad, sort of like driving different cars.

You sit higher, have a big ol' control stick, and it has some suspension on the wheel, and a swiveling tail wheel.

The geometry there is so the Center of Gravity (balance point) can be a little more forward without the wing root obscuring the view of the back seat passenger/pilot/instructor.

On the other hand, somebody said "It drives like a truck".
 
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RayDunzl

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Do you use slips to drop altitude?

Can, but I'm not well practiced at that near the ground, and it's hard to tell what you've accomplished when practicing up high.

One of the things my instructor did very early on in my training was to cut the throttle at some point on almost every landing.

What's a throttle?

Oh, yeah. I've heard those are pretty expensive to buy, operate, and overhaul.

His thought was that once you get to the pattern, you should be able to land on the damn runway no matter what

That's me. No "go around".

---

"This video demonstrates the short field ability of a sailplane that uses large span flaps for glide slope control."


I don't think mine will land quite as short, but it's hard to tell if he has a headwind (probably) to help.
 
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Blumlein 88

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Can, but I'm not well practiced at that near the ground, and it's hard to tell what you've accomplished when practicing up high.



What's a throttle?

Oh, yeah. I've heard those are pretty expensive to buy, operate, and overhaul.



That's me. No "go around".

---

"This video demonstrates the short field ability of a sailplane that uses large span flaps for glide slope control."


I don't think mine will land quite as short, but it's hard to tell if he has a headwind (probably) to help.
Yeah that was pretty steep at the end there. I'd been taught to use side slips too in a powered plane as well as flaps. You should warn us about the loud music with the video however.
 

MRC01

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...
One of the things my instructor did very early on in my training was to cut the throttle at some point on almost every landing. Got to where i'd just pull it back myself and dead stick in with a tight pattern. Was fantastic practice. His thought was that once you get to the pattern, you should be able to land on the damn runway no matter what the engine decides to do.
Same here, and I still fly tight patterns whenever possible, with engine idle from downwind to touchdown. Not much different from a power-off 180, which is in the commercial PTS but all private pilots should learn them too, even though they're not required. It's good practice. In most GA aircraft the ailerons have more authority than rudder, so if you need to land really short you can slip all the way through the turns with full outside rudder while using aileron and pitch to control the turn. Slipping like this is almost like having spoilers.

Yet the FAA training and recommendations on this have changed over the years. Based on seeing fewer incidents due to engine failure and more due to maneuvering, they now teach the "stabilized approach". It's a bigger pattern that puts many GA aircraft out of glide range, yet uses more gentle turns with a longer final to configure the aircraft and use throttle as the primary method to maintain glideslope.
 

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BostonJack

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Ray. Super cool! I've only been up in gliders as a tourist in the second seat. Still fun.
Used to live just 1.5 miles from a gliderport in Salem, NH. the tows would go over our house all the time.
Wanted to fly from there but was busy with work/small kids.

They shut the place down to make a golf course! Boo! major retrograde move! golfers are a common pestilent species, but glider pilots are rare.

Congrats. Looks like a lot of fun.
 

BDWoody

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Yet the FAA training and recommendations on this have changed over the years. Based on seeing fewer incidents due to engine failure and more due to maneuvering, they now teach the "stabilized approach". It's a bigger pattern that puts many GA aircraft out of glide range, yet uses more gentle turns with a longer final to configure the aircraft and use throttle as the primary method to maintain glideslope.

They also removed spin/ spin recovery training as a requirement for the private other than textbook learning. I'm still glad I went through that too.

I'll stick with tight patterns.

My first instructor was a retired FBI agent...very old school, but a great instructor. I think I've mentioned that he would grade my landings on his 'pucker factor' scale. As in, "we've gotta reduce that crosswind landing pucker factor before I sign you off for solo."
 
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MRC01

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They also removed spin/ spin recovery training as a requirement for the private other than textbook learning. I'm still glad I went through that too. ...
Yep. Spins are fun, and useful training. Pre-flight planning to ensure intentional spins are approved, configuring the aircraft W&B for "utility category", and good practice for unusual attitude entry & recovery.

In a similar vein, the FAA also changed dumbed down the training for slow flight.
 

Blumlein 88

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They also removed spin/ spin recovery training as a requirement for the private other than textbook learning. I'm still glad I went through that too.

I'll stick with tight patterns.

My first instructor was a retired FBI agent...very old school, but a great instructor. I think I've mentioned that he would grade my landings on his 'pucker factor' scale. As in, "we've gotta reduce that crosswind landing pucker factor before I sign you off for solo."
Yeah I remember spins. My instructor was retired military, Captain in the Army I think. He was rated for all kinds of acrobatics that few people were licensed to do. On weekends he flew stunts and stuff in a Pitts. He also had license for choppers, but not as an instructor.

I remember first spin, everything seemed so suddenly to be spinning I couldn't see what anything was. I heard him counting off, "that is one, two, three spins and straighten it out" I thought no way can I do that. In a couple more hours I was doing that too.

One day it was windy enough it was near the max crosswind rating for the 152 we were using. So we took a 172 which was rated just a little higher I think like 3 mph more or something. He wasn't even supposed to go along, but that day he had me do touch and goes into the wicked crosswind over and over for an hour. Great training opportunity we didn't want to waste he said. And it was. I once had to land in similar conditions and I thought it was one of my best landings, sideslipped it right on down and cross controlled to straighten up just at touchdown with perfection. My passengers were horrified as they didn't like watching the runway looking out the side windows. They all imagined us hitting the ground sideways and flipping over into a terrible crash.

I didn't know about the slow flight change either. That seems a bad idea for sure.
 

Digital Mastering System

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Can, but I'm not well practiced at that near the ground, and it's hard to tell what you've accomplished when practicing up high.



What's a throttle?

Oh, yeah. I've heard those are pretty expensive to buy, operate, and overhaul.



That's me. No "go around".

---

"This video demonstrates the short field ability of a sailplane that uses large span flaps for glide slope control."


I don't think mine will land quite as short, but it's hard to tell if he has a headwind (probably) to help.
Ray: Back in the 70's I was working with a sail plane pilot (in southern Sweden) and was lucky enough to go for a ride in a two seater. Very cool. We both worked in an electronics lab and he had me design a little circuit with like 4 transistors that would sense which wing-tip was warmer than the other. We had remote transistors out on the tip and a couple of LEDs would light showing the direction of the hotter tip. He would then steer in the hotter direction, hoping to catch the thermal. I think it worked pretty well. Is such a gadget used today?
 

MRC01

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... One day it was windy enough it was near the max crosswind rating for the 152 we were using. So we took a 172 which was rated just a little higher I think like 3 mph more or something. He wasn't even supposed to go along, but that day he had me do touch and goes into the wicked crosswind over and over for an hour. Great training opportunity we didn't want to waste he said. And it was. I once had to land in similar conditions and I thought it was one of my best landings, sideslipped it right on down and cross controlled to straighten up just at touchdown with perfection. My passengers were horrified as they didn't like watching the runway looking out the side windows. They all imagined us hitting the ground sideways and flipping over into a terrible crash.
...
The Seattle area where I live can get quite windy so tell my passengers in advance (before they look out the window and notice for themselves) that the crab angle is perfectly normal; that usually converts fear into "wow this is cool".

The crosswind figure in the POH for certified airplanes (about 15 kts for a C-172) is "maximum demonstrated". It is a certification, not a limitation. For certification, the manufacturer must demonstrate that the airplane can handle a crosswind of at least 20% of Vs0. The airplane's actual crosswind capability is based on other factors like rudder authority, wingtip clearance, etc. Some airplanes (like the 172, having lots of rudder authority and high wings) are capable of much higher crosswinds than the certified minimum. That's especially useful in places with serious wind like Alaska & Wyoming.
 
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RayDunzl

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You should warn us about the loud music with the video however.

My speakers tend to be off, and only turned up when something I want to hear it there.

I did know there was music, but only by turning the speakers up a little to see what was there, then back down since it wasn't useful.
 
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RayDunzl

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Ray: Back in the 70's I was working with a sail plane pilot (in southern Sweden) and was lucky enough to go for a ride in a two seater. Very cool. We both worked in an electronics lab and he had me design a little circuit with like 4 transistors that would sense which wing-tip was warmer than the other. We had remote transistors out on the tip and a couple of LEDs would light showing the direction of the hotter tip. He would then steer in the hotter direction, hoping to catch the thermal. I think it worked pretty well. Is such a gadget used today?

I don't remember seeing anything like that.

Add a battery and Bluetooth or whatever radio and you might have a product.

It's more a "seat of pants" thing, as you'll feel the bump and the warmer wing will rise tilting the plane away from the rising air. A thermal tries to spit you out, since, to stay in it, the warmer wing would need to be lower to turn that direction.

The radius of a turn is a function of speed and bank angle:

Easiest formula I saw:

mph squared / (11.26 * tan of bank angle degrees)

For 55 mph and 40 degrees the radius is around 320 feet.

Using that with the flight path and approximate GPS values for speed and location below:

1642717437565.png


Drift with the wind at 219 degrees and 8 knots.

Measure the circle marked above:

1642717595897.png


Looks about right...

Thermals are narrow down low, and spread out (usually) as you go up.

Right under a cloud it can be quite broad.

You can fly in a straight line when high, fast between clouds, slow when in lift under them to rise, and cover distance without circling.

Red lines mark where a club member circled to rise yesterday, a lot of distance covered in-between.

1642718046834.png


Scale: Dusty Airpatch to Lakeland is 30 miles.
 

MRC01

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You can fly in a straight line when high, fast between clouds, slow when in lift under them to rise, and cover distance without circling.
As you do this, are you targeting specific airspeeds, like Vldmax (maximum glide distance) between lift areas, Vx (max angle of climb) or Vy (max rate of climb) when in lift?
 
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RayDunzl

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As you do this, are you targeting specific airspeeds, like Vldmax (maximum glide distance) between lift areas, Vx (max angle of climb) or Vy (max rate of climb) when in lift?

If you want to get technical about it, you can...

I don't think a glider has a max angle of climb, as it could only do that briefly, losing airspeed. The rest of the time you are going "downhill", but if the airmass is rising quickly enough, you rise while going down through it.


Long Distance out West where you can really do it:

 
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MRC01

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... I don't think a glider has a max angle of climb, as it could only do that briefly, losing airspeed. The rest of the time you are going "downhill", but if the airmass is rising quickly enough, you rise while going down through it. ...
Yeah, gliders can require thinking about things differently. It seems simple & intuitive to fly at minimum sink (slow) when in lift, and fly at Vldmax (faster) between lift. The doc you provided is interesting, as it explains that this is not true!
 
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RayDunzl

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Yesterday was scheduled for my Private Pilot - Glider Oral test and Checkride.

The DPE (Designated Pilot Examiner) is a glider guy and runs a combination Commercial/Club operation, which might be unusual.

The oral test part was more general talk and tell stories with a few actual questions - more like "Do you know what you're doing?" than detailed Inquisition. We covered a lot of area, because...

It was raining on and off, cold, and the ceiling was 500 feet as announced by the automated system at the airport (118.975 (813-780-0031)), actually less, as the top of a big comm tower in town on the other side of the field was obscured.

Can't fly under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) when you can't see. Expected ceiling for the testing flights would be a minimum of 3,000 feet or so.

Chart shows the tower reaches 312 feet above ground level...

1643290860889.png

Anyone interested in looking at aeronautical charts - www.SkyVector.com gives the world in one zoomable piece, The above is from the "World VFR" layer.

The tower - couldn't see above the group of antennas at the midpoint from the airport.

1643291891346.png



So, the DPE will come back (511 miles for him) sometime in February when there are some more students to test here or elsewhere in the state, along with whatever other reasons he might have to drive down.
 

Blumlein 88

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Yesterday was scheduled for my Private Pilot - Glider Oral test and Checkride.

The DPE (Designated Pilot Examiner) is a glider guy and runs a combination Commercial/Club operation, which might be unusual.

The oral test part was more general talk and tell stories with a few actual questions - more like "Do you know what you're doing?" than detailed Inquisition. We covered a lot of area, because...

It was raining on and off, cold, and the ceiling was 500 feet as announced by the automated system at the airport (118.975 (813-780-0031)), actually less, as the top of a big comm tower in town on the other side of the field was obscured.

Can't fly under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) when you can't see. Expected ceiling for the testing flights would be a minimum of 3,000 feet or so.

Chart shows the tower reaches 312 feet above ground level...

View attachment 182290
Anyone interested in looking at aeronautical charts - www.SkyVector.com gives the world in one zoomable piece, The above is from the "World VFR" layer.

The tower - couldn't see above the group of antennas at the midpoint from the airport.

View attachment 182292


So, the DPE will come back (511 miles for him) sometime in February when there are some more students to test here or elsewhere in the state, along with whatever other reasons he might have to drive down.
Well sorry you have to wait. I took my check ride for a powered plane on a apparently a bad day for the Examiner. I was there ready to go at 1 pm, and he did the oral part. Then said he had some matters to attend to. I ended up doing my check ride that night about 6:30 pm. I was a young impatient fellow then. It didn't help my nerves. But I passed with a perfect score when it was over. And not many people take their check ride at night. I'd have really been bummed out with a multi-week wait.

So relax and just get some more practice in. Good luck!
 

MRC01

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Yesterday was scheduled for my Private Pilot - Glider Oral test and Checkride.

The DPE (Designated Pilot Examiner) is a glider guy and runs a combination Commercial/Club operation, which might be unusual.

The oral test part was more general talk and tell stories with a few actual questions - more like "Do you know what you're doing?" than detailed Inquisition. We covered a lot of area, because...

It was raining on and off, cold, and the ceiling was 500 feet as announced by the automated system at the airport (118.975 (813-780-0031)), actually less, as the top of a big comm tower in town on the other side of the field was obscured.

Can't fly under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) when you can't see. Expected ceiling for the testing flights would be a minimum of 3,000 feet or so.
...
So, the DPE will come back (511 miles for him) sometime in February when there are some more students to test here or elsewhere in the state, along with whatever other reasons he might have to drive down.
You got the oral done, which is 1 step closer. You get bonus points for recognizing when not to fly. Now you get to continue to practice flying which is fun.
 
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