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So, which center should I get???

mcdn

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Even good centres seem like a poor tradeoff in a system that will be used for music as well as movies. They have to be the best speaker in the system for movies, don’t add much if anything to the movie experience, and steal budget from your left and right speakers.

I was looking at options for a friend recently and recommended the Adam T7V with a sub.
 

dshreter

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If I were to skip the center, what would you guys recommend?
Depends on your budget, but probably the best KEF or Revel at your budget. The KEF R3 can be found at a quite good price these days.
 
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Danskir

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Ok, so if I’m spending $1700 for some bookshelf speakers and skipping the center, the KEF R3? any others that would be better?
 
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HarmonicTHD

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How do you guys feel about Dali Oberon?
For home cinema (in untreated rooms) , I would definitely go with KEF (active with Genelec concentric). Their concentric mid/tweeter and more narrow dispersion give a precise sound stage, which is something you want if you dispense with a center (yes I also would try without center). If you rather have larger ones than the R3 than look into the KEF R5 (plus a sub or later a second one) or R7 etc. Spent the most of your budget on speakers.

The Dalib have never been measured afik so you simply don’t know what you are getting.

Here is a database of all the measured speakers with the Tonality score as a rough indicator of their fidelity (conformance with Harman curve).

 

JoachimStrobel

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I seem to post my opinion every time the center speaker comes up, so I do it again:
As said before, the center will carry a lot auf audio as in a Dolby or whatever encoding for music, a lot goes there, even more for upmixed stuff as that captures the center oriented part easily. Hence, the center needs to be good. For movies, it plays most of the conversation. And as most movies are about talked words, this is super important too. But dedicated center speakers are optimised for being place flat under a screen and are hence always an expensive compromise. So I would use two identical main speakers left and right from your TV. That gives you the best of all worlds. It may be expensive, depending on your mains. For a new system I think that for the price of a 2good+1center you get a 4xalmostashood that sounds better.
Only real trouble is the cabling, as one needs either 2x8ohms into a 4 ohm channel or a dual amp.
 
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Danskir

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How about Ascend Sierra LX's, maybe.
Ascend accoustics actually have a center that would meet my criteria - the duo v2


Would this work with the sierra lx’s? Is this center also a bad option? They have another bookshelf that seems to be in the same line:


Are these bookshelf speakers good too? If you guys recommend these, I could potentially start off with the bookshelves and later upgrade to add the center…
 

staticV3

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A ribbon tweeter alone doesn't fix the directivity error though. The issue comes from having 2/4/6 woofers that play frequencies higher than about 300Hz.

Extended woofer response -> bad horizontal directivity
AV123 X-CS Center Speaker X-CS Encore GR Research Kit Driver Frequency Response Measurements.png AV123 X-CS Center Speaker X-CS Encore GR Research Kit Horizontal Directivity Measurements.png

Limited woofer response -> good horizontal directivity
Unifi Reference UCR52 Measurements Driver Center Home Theater Speaker.png Unifi Reference UCR52 Measurements Horizontal Directivity Center Home Theater Speaker.png

Since the RAAL Ribbon tweeter probably can't play down to 300Hz, the DUO V2 LCR will have the same issue.
 
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HarmonicTHD

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Ascend accoustics actually have a center that would meet my criteria - the duo v2


Would this work with the sierra lx’s? Is this center also a bad option? They have another bookshelf that seems to be in the same line:


Are these bookshelf speakers good too? If you guys recommend these, I could potentially start off with the bookshelves and later upgrade to add the center…
Again. Have a look at the spinorama database to which I posted the link above and repost again here:


A very quick and dirty look shows:
The Ascend Center is pretty bad.
The Ascend bookshelf’s are not bad at all, but the KEF R3 are even a tad better and cheaper.
 

Steve Dallas

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Ascend accoustics actually have a center that would meet my criteria - the duo v2


Would this work with the sierra lx’s? Is this center also a bad option? They have another bookshelf that seems to be in the same line:


Are these bookshelf speakers good too? If you guys recommend these, I could potentially start off with the bookshelves and later upgrade to add the center…

By all accounts, the new NFS optimized speakers from Ascend are very good to excellent.

BUT... When I look at the measurements, the horizontal beam width chart is omitted. (It is there for the bookshelves!) The only directivity chart is this one, which still hints at the problem inherent to horizontal MTM designs:

Duo_V2_Center_Off-Axis_PIR.png


The person in the center seat will hear a broad BBC dip. The side seats will hear a deeper version of that dip. How much does that really matter in practice? See my thoughts and measurements here:

 

dshreter

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Ascend accoustics actually have a center that would meet my criteria - the duo v2


Would this work with the sierra lx’s? Is this center also a bad option? They have another bookshelf that seems to be in the same line:


Are these bookshelf speakers good too? If you guys recommend these, I could potentially start off with the bookshelves and later upgrade to add the center…
The Sierra 2EXs should be good. The center has the same issue as so many other MTM designs, which is poor off axis response.
 
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Danskir

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They (used speakers) are if they only cost $150, sound good, and are built to a high standard like the Kef. Plus a lot a these can be had new from the warehouse inventrory of some defunct bricks and mortar home theater retailer (Circuit City, anyone?)
Can’t find any used speakers that meet my criteria.
 
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Danskir

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I seem to post my opinion every time the center speaker comes up, so I do it again:
As said before, the center will carry a lot auf audio as in a Dolby or whatever encoding for music, a lot goes there, even more for upmixed stuff as that captures the center oriented part easily. Hence, the center needs to be good. For movies, it plays most of the conversation. And as most movies are about talked words, this is super important too. But dedicated center speakers are optimised for being place flat under a screen and are hence always an expensive compromise. So I would use two identical main speakers left and right from your TV. That gives you the best of all worlds. It may be expensive, depending on your mains. For a new system I think that for the price of a 2good+1center you get a 4xalmostashood that sounds better.
Only real trouble is the cabling, as one needs either 2x8ohms into a 4 ohm channel or a dual amp.
Never thought about this. Lol my wife would shoot me…
 
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Danskir

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By all accounts, the new NFS optimized speakers from Ascend are very good to excellent.

BUT... When I look at the measurements, the horizontal beam width chart is omitted. (It is there for the bookshelves!) The only directivity chart is this one, which still hints at the problem inherent to horizontal MTM designs:

Duo_V2_Center_Off-Axis_PIR.png


The person in the center seat will hear a broad BBC dip. The side seats will hear a deeper version of that dip. How much does that really matter in practice? See my thoughts and measurements here:

Very interesting read. Thanks for posting. I’m trying to understand this MTM issue and currently watching Erin’s video…
For home cinema (in untreated rooms) , I would definitely go with KEF (active with Genelec concentric). Their concentric mid/tweeter and more narrow dispersion give a precise sound stage, which is something you want if you dispense with a center (yes I also would try without center). If you rather have larger ones than the R3 than look into the KEF R5 (plus a sub or later a second one) or R7 etc. Spent the most of your budget on speakers.

The Dalib have never been measured afik so you simply don’t know what you are getting.

Here is a database of all the measured speakers with the Tonality score as a rough indicator of their fidelity (conformance with Harman curve).

amazing information! I’m currently deep in this rabbit hole…
 
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Danskir

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By all accounts, the new NFS optimized speakers from Ascend are very good to excellent.

BUT... When I look at the measurements, the horizontal beam width chart is omitted. (It is there for the bookshelves!) The only directivity chart is this one, which still hints at the problem inherent to horizontal MTM designs:

Duo_V2_Center_Off-Axis_PIR.png


The person in the center seat will hear a broad BBC dip. The side seats will hear a deeper version of that dip. How much does that really matter in practice? See my thoughts and measurements here:

after
After watching the video and reading your thread I’m not sure this MTM problem will be such an issue for me. You make some good points. I’m also generally directly in front of the tv while watching and my family would be more than content with just tv speakers… and probably couldn’t tell the difference between tv speakers and $5k KEF speakers. Also, correct me if I’m wrong but sounds like it wouldn’t impact listening to music.
 
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Danskir

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Probably going to go with the R3’s. My wife even signed off on the walnut color one. There’s a chance I won’t be able to fit the R2c when I’m looking to get a center speaker. Would it be terrible if I eventually matched them with one of the low profile Kef sound bar/ center channel speakers (that can apparently use all 3 channels for the center channel) or one of the Goldenear centers?


 

Steve Dallas

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Probably going to go with the R3’s. My wife even signed off on the walnut color one. There’s a chance I won’t be able to fit the R2c when I’m looking to get a center speaker. Would it be terrible if I eventually matched them with one of the low profile Kef sound bar/ center channel speakers (that can apparently use all 3 channels for the center channel) or one of the Goldenear centers?



You cannot really go wrong with R3s. I am a convert.

I do not have any experience with those KEF centers. KEF does great things with their traditional speakers, but some of there lifestyle products have been hit or miss.

Here is more food for thought about that dip in the midrange in MTM centers:

 
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