So, what are recommendable amps below 200$?

[vert]

There's this from Sony for less than $150
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-STRDH19...ony+amplifier&qid=1556796258&s=gateway&sr=8-3
It, and the AVR models in the same line, seem to get good reviews.

 

[Mashcky]

Certainly didn’t mean to start a debate here about new versus used. I agree with the comment about tolerance for risk, and would add that time is also a factor. Those with the luxury of time can test units, send them back, examine Craigslist finds, etc. Sometimes this hunt adds to the enjoyment.

Those who have the aptitude to fix gear often forget the cost of tools. Those who don’t often dismiss the value that can be had for learning to DIY and fix things. This again comes down to time. Now that I’m a graduate student, I lean towards new gear again because time is such a commodity.

I’ve had the good fortune of getting great vintage components from family that were well taken care of or rarely used. The used gear I’ve purchased have been hit or miss.

 

[estuardo4]

It sounds like you are in Europe. Not sure if there is a parallel, but in the US Craigslist is an audio bargain hunters dream. Many people are dumping old audio gear, and decent stereo receivers and AVRs can be had for “pennies on the dollar”.

I’ve picked up a number of perfectly functional used receivers for under $50, and a handful of those were $0-10!

Until proven otherwise, all compently designed amps, in functional condition, operated under clipping, are indistinguishable. (This is not how it seems to me, but the results of careful ABX testing have not been refuted AFAIN)

The downside of used is reliability. I like finding “good deals” on people unloading old audio gear. What can often be the case though is that gear has been sitting unused. The last time the seller listened it was working, but that might be years ago. So you if you don’t want a dead unit, you have to check that it’s working.

Another downside is size and aesthetics.

But I listen to an old Yamaha AVR I got for free everyday and it sounds just fine. It also has a built in DAC, multiple inputs, surround sound capabilities, and six analog inputs to its six amps, which is interesting for experimenting.

I mean it has a remote, it has A and B speaker outputs, and I think each amp is rated to 80w.

It’s crazy.

Stereo amps from the 90s are a good bet, Sony, Denon, Yamaha. These have no cache with vintage fanatics, so around here you can barely give them away.

I'm from Mexico. Good gear is always expensive, even if they are 30 years old! And that's because when the owner bought it, it surely cost them an arm and a leg. The used market similar to Craiglist at Mexico offer stuff almost at the same cost as new. The used amps I've bought were not bargains. And they didn't function correctly. The good news for me is that Amazon does a really good job offering goods at fair prices and with warranty.

And about vintage amps, my belief is that the simple the design, the better. I try to avoid A/V systems, not because they are no good, but because they have very complex electronics that can add interference or noise to the output signal (only audible and verifiable doing a set of tests like Amir does). That's why I'm very intrigued by the Emotiva's new ICE monoblock models, because it is just the module, power and connections. Nothing extra to "tune" the sound, as other vendors do.

 

[amirm]

There's this from Sony for less than $150
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-STRDH19...ony+amplifier&qid=1556796258&s=gateway&sr=8-3
It, and the AVR models in the same line, seem to get good reviews.

That's insanely cheap for a name brand receiver....

 

[goodkeys]

That's insanely cheap for a name brand receiver....

Indeed! It costs a bit more in Europe, but it's just about inside my price bracket. Looks like a very good option.

 

[pjug]

That's insanely cheap for a name brand receiver....

It really is! And it looks like it might measure OK too. From https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-stereo-receiver/
The sony is the purple trace.

This chart shows the level of distortion in each receiver at different output levels and the maximum power each receiver can deliver into 8-ohm loads with both channels driven at 1 kilohertz. The Onkyo TX-8220 (red trace) and Pioneer SX-10AE (green trace) have relatively high levels of distortion even at low volume levels. The Onkyo TX-8020 (blue trace) and Yamaha R-S202 (orange trace) have moderate levels of distortion, while the Sony STR-DH190 (purple trace) has lower distortion and greater power output. The NAD C 316BEE (brown trace) has the lowest levels of distortion but also the lowest power output.

 

[daftcombo]

It really is! And it looks like it might measure OK too. From https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-stereo-receiver/
The sony is the purple trace.

View attachment 25662
This chart shows the level of distortion in each receiver at different output levels and the maximum power each receiver can deliver into 8-ohm loads with both channels driven at 1 kilohertz. The Onkyo TX-8220 (red trace) and Pioneer SX-10AE (green trace) have relatively high levels of distortion even at low volume levels. The Onkyo TX-8020 (blue trace) and Yamaha R-S202 (orange trace) have moderate levels of distortion, while the Sony STR-DH190 (purple trace) has lower distortion and greater power output. The NAD C 316BEE (brown trace) has the lowest levels of distortion but also the lowest power output.

Seems very good but I'm waiting to see the FR & IMD graphs.

Be careful. On the back, it's written "impedance use : 6 ohm to 16 ohm" so must be inproper for 4 ohms.

 

[TimW]

That's insanely cheap for a name brand receiver....

Competing products at about the same price include the Onkyo TX-8020, Yamaha R-S202BL, Pioneer SX-10AE, Sherwood RX4508 and Insignia NS-STR514.

It's pretty crazy how much you can get for $150 but I suspect the performance of most of these is mediocre.

 

[pjug]

Be careful. On the back, it's written "impedance use : 6 ohm to 16 ohm" so must be inproper for 4 ohms.

Yes. And yet there are two sets of speaker connections, so I wonder how they are dealing with the low impedance in that case. A and B can be driven at the same time (from manual, below):

“SPK A”: Speakers connected to the SPEAKERS A terminals. “SPK B”: Speakers connected to the SPEAKERS B terminals. “SPK A+B”: Speakers connected to both the SPEAKERS A and B terminals (parallel connection).

 

[tmtomh]

Apologies for a somewhat OT comment, but based on Amir's measurements I'm not really sure about recommended power/integrated amps even in the $500 range. Eventually I'd like to replace my current 125wpc power amp with something of similar power rating that's got a lower noise floor - but based on the measurements Amir's done here, I can't recall seeing any such units whose THD+N and SINAD measurements inspire a lot of confidence.

 

[pjug]

Apologies for a somewhat OT comment, but based on Amir's measurements I'm not really sure about recommended power/integrated amps even in the $500 range. Eventually I'd like to replace my current 125wpc power amp with something of similar power rating that's got a lower noise floor - but based on the measurements Amir's done here, I can't recall seeing any such units whose THD+N and SINAD measurements inspire a lot of confidence.

I am sure someone makes a good $500 amplifier, but maybe not all of (1) 125wpc; (2) $500; (3) measures well.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Yes. And yet there are two sets of speaker connections, so I wonder how they are dealing with the low impedance in that case. A and B can be driven at the same time (from manual, below):

“SPK A”: Speakers connected to the SPEAKERS A terminals. “SPK B”: Speakers connected to the SPEAKERS B terminals. “SPK A+B”: Speakers connected to both the SPEAKERS A and B terminals (parallel connection).

Perhaps the amp is capable of playing into 3 Ohms but they don’t want to encourage ppl to try 2 x 3 in parallel. It would be surprising if a solid state amp couldn’t handle under 6 Ohm per channel.

 

[amirm]

Competing products at about the same price include the Onkyo TX-8020, Yamaha R-S202BL, Pioneer SX-10AE, Sherwood RX4508 and Insignia NS-STR514.

It's pretty crazy how much you can get for $150 but I suspect the performance of most of these is mediocre.

Wow, that is amazing.

WHat is the interest level in these large units as opposed to desktop class products I have been testing?

 

[estuardo4]

Wow, that is amazing.

WHat is the interest level in these large units as opposed to desktop class products I have been testing?

I'm interested Amir, but not as interested as you testing the desktop class products. These models you mention doesn't look very reliable.

I received my Powergate yesterday. So far, so good, but I'm waiting really anxiously for your review of the Paradigm PW-AMP. The included DSP software intrigues me a lot.

 

[TimW]

Wow, that is amazing.

WHat is the interest level in these large units as opposed to desktop class products I have been testing?

When I setup a budget system for friends and family I usually recommend a used AVR or a class D desktop product rather than one of these new cheap stereo receivers. However a benefit of these newer name brand products is that they're supported by basic universal remotes like the ones from Xfinity and TV manufacturers. That makes them fairly attractive as far as price vs feature-set goes and if they deliver OK performance they could be a good option for basic living room systems. From the looks of it, the Sony might be worth the effort of getting it in for review.

 

[TimW]

I'm interested Amir, but not as interested as you testing the desktop class products. These models you mention doesn't look very reliable.

I received my Powergate yesterday. So far, so good, but I'm waiting really anxiously for your review of the Paradigm PW-AMP. The included DSP software intrigues me a lot.

I am also more interested in the Paradigm PW Amp/Link review then a cheap receiver review.

 

[Willem]

I think that by and large these big traditional amplifiers and receivers from mainstream brands may well be the bargains in the market. Add a $35 Cromecast Audio and you are all set for modern music playing at a pretty high level of sound quality. I would not hesitate to use the Sony in a system with speakers costing a few thousand dollars.
Note that the measured distortion of the Sony is quite reassuring, and that the listening panel could not hear much of a sonic difference between most of them. My guess is that the very slight sonic differences are probably due to the influence of a real and fluctuating speaker load compared to a dummy load. This often comes from anaemic power supplies, and those are, of course one of the two most expensive components (the other being the case). So if you have to choose without measurement data, look for output impedance, or in the usual absence of such information, go for the weight of the unit. Good power supplies tend to be heavier. And chose the one with the greatest power output for most realistic dynamics.

 

[amirm]

So I purchased a Pioneer "Elite" AVR for some $350 from Amazon which was on special (still is). It was an impulse buy for my own use. I will be reviewing this soon.

 

[estuardo4]

So I purchased a Pioneer "Elite" AVR for some $350 from Amazon which was on special (still is). It was an impulse buy for my own use. I will be reviewing this soon.

Excellent! I hope it is as good as previous Elite models from yesteryear. I still have my doubts with these new models from named brands from Japan. They are from Japan only in name.

 

[tmtomh]

I am sure someone makes a good $500 amplifier, but maybe not all of (1) 125wpc; (2) $500; (3) measures well.

Excellent point. I'd happily pay $1,000 to $1,500 for such a beast. I could always get a Bryston 2.5B3, but I don't have $4k handy.