So this thing costs 43k....

[gene_stl]

If all you nimrods, knew anything at all about audio, you would know that phenolic paper circuit boards, have a MUCH MUCH WARMER and MORE ORGANIC sound than Green Fiberglass.

 

[DKT88]

It has some strange vacuum tubes in it. Not the typical audio tubes. An ancient rectifier tube 6A5 (1935) and the 6463.
"This is a double triode designed for use in computer circuits. It will maintain emission after long periods in the cut-off state and is of special quality construction designed to withstand vibration and has a long working life. Like other valves designed for computer applications it is not rated for use in circuits where hum, noise or microphany could be a problem. Certainly not an audio valve." (from r-type.org and the Phillips Data Sheet for 6463)

 

[DKT88]

I wouldn't pay $430.00 for one of these things.

 

[Tks]

I wouldn't pay $430.00 for one of these things.

Okay, $350 then.

 

[KozmoNaut]

$3.50, maybe.

 

[Eirikur]

This thing has just about everything on the esoteric checklist. What more could an audiophile ask for!

It uses a carefully-selected-by-hand NOS (new old stock) Analogue Devices AD1865 18-Bit (Multi-bit) stereo DAC chip that has a conversion ceiling of 18/96, is no longer in production, has zero over-sampling, no jitter reduction and no re-clocking, noise shaping or filtering of any kind.

Hmm, that's not what the spec-sheet says: "Operates at 16x Oversampling per Channel", although it seems this DAC works on a simple sample and hold scheme.

$3.50, maybe.

The AD1865N chip alone will set you back $20-$40, depending on the source.

Some interesting characteristics of this device - it's not fully R-2R!

The DACs on the AD1865 chip employ a partially segmented architecture. The first four MSBs of each DAC are segmented into 15 elements. The 14 LSBs are produced using standard R-2R techniques. Segment and R-2R resistors are laser trimmed to provide extremely low total harmonic distortion. This architecture minimizes errors at major code transitions resulting in low output glitch and eliminating the need for an external deglitcher.

... each channel of the AD1865 is complete with an I-V converter and a feedback resistor. These can be connected externally to provide direct voltage output from one or both AD1865 channels.

But not exactly SOTA performance

 

[KxDx]

More transformers than a Michael Bay flick...

And sadly, they'll sell every one that they make. Just wait till a few "reviewers" say it's the greatest DAC on the planet.

 

[August]

Imposing IQ tax

 

[Veri]

Imposing IQ tax

 

[DonH56]

Very few if any high-precision multibit ("R-2R") DACs are completely binary. The MSBs are typically unary (unit-weighted) to improve matching and reduce trim requirements. I have designed many multibit DACs (not for audio) from 4 to 18 bits and virtually all from about 6 or 8 bits and up included unary bits. Otherwise element (resistor, capacitor, etc.) matching is a big problem. The biggest drawbacks are extra area and reduced bandwidth, a problem for multi-GHz designs. Less so for audio, I think.

For all the fluff, they missed the boat by not using toroidal transformers, how'd that happen?

 

[beefkabob]

Ahem! Did you not receive the memo? Transformers are now the audiophile equivalent of cheap Chinese manufacturers filling the void of their hollow junkyard-destined products with reject nuts and bolts to add heft since everybody knows that WEIGHT = QUALITY!!!

Transformers? That DAC has more than meets the eye.

That's ferrous alignment technology. The nuts are stopped from being garbage, so saved ferrous.

 

[felizecat]

It must be handmade and platinum plated hammers and screwdrivers were used by 100 years old blind virgins to create this marvel. It is the only explanation.

 

[Snarfie]

First quantum bit player for early adopters. You can listen to future releases of music because it can play music in a superposition.

 

[soundwave76]

This thread should be renamed with the product name so that google search will note it

 

[LuckyLuke575]

I'm waiting for the day when marketing this kind of device can be classified as racketeering.

This section pushed it over the top for me:

$43k and no USB? No 96/24? It seems like they're really looking for unique bullshit stories to con 'high-end' audio buyers.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

View attachment 38810
So, basically, the entire DAC is jammed on the tiny board that I circled in blue & everything else is for a bare-bones tube preamp w/ some extra transformers? What here is worth so much money? The chassis isn't even copper. The wiring isn't even neat!

Seriously, what the heck kind of loads do they think they're handling to require so many transformers of that heft & size? Honestly, any kind of theoretical(?) improvements they'd gain from having transformers for different stages of the amp will be lost due to inductive coupling from how close the transformers are to each other (even though they offset & rotated some of them somewhat). For this price tag, at least put them in a separate chassis...

I'm no technician by any stretch of the imagination, but these internals look like a dog's breakfast.

 

[Frank Dernie]

There are lots of transformers in there!
I thought they also had a DAC for about £100k too, and a matching transport at a similar price. Maybe no more.
I understand one of the eastern importers, Singapore I think, requested these models since the others were too cheap to sell as high end in his market. I heard the speakers, in particular, were difficult to make acceptably pricy, based as they are on a simple one. Silver voice coils and hemp cones plus separate crossover boxed and exotic wood hardly get you from £4k to £50k.
This is just rumour so an appropriate pinch of salt may be needed.

 

[zermak]

I love the OBSOLETE watermark on the chip's datasheet... Surely worth building something based on it considering the future proof and last generation technology squeezed in it.

And the iternals suck for real.

 

[scott wurcer]

This thing has just about everything on the esoteric checklist. What more could an audiophile ask for!

Very misleading, AD1862/1865 were just DAC's (simply look at the block diagram) everything else was always external digital circuitry. I helped a little on the op-amp, pretty ordinary bi-polar output but there was provision for external I/V. I gave away my demo cards so I can't ID the SPDIF receiver and over sampler we used.

It uses a carefully-selected-by-hand NOS (new old stock) Analogue Devices AD1865 18-Bit (Multi-bit) stereo DAC chip that has a conversion ceiling of 18/96, is no longer in production, has zero over-sampling, no jitter reduction and no re-clocking, noise shaping or filtering of any kind.

 

[AudioSceptic]

There are lots of transformers in there!
I thought they also had a DAC for about £100k too, and a matching transport at a similar price. Maybe no more.
I understand one of the eastern importers, Singapore I think, requested these models since the others were too cheap to sell as high end in his market. I heard the speakers, in particular, were difficult to make acceptably pricy, based as they are on a simple one. Silver voice coils and hemp cones plus separate crossover boxed and exotic wood hardly get you from £4k to £50k.
This is just rumour so an appropriate pinch of salt may be needed.

In 2012 HiFi Critic reviewed a £192k Audio Note CDP+DAC <https://www.audionote.co.uk/fifth-element-force> (link to review there) so that would be it. Truly insane on many levels "While very few examples will be made and sold at such extravagant prices, we owe a debt to the Audio Note UK team for showing just what is possible. Here is a CD player which really can give high end analogue a run for its money.".