So my DAC and AMP are on the way and now I learn it will make no difference over my Smartphone

[VMAT4]

You worry too much Once you start using it you'll quickly forget the cost!

• Topping D30 is a competent DAC in an attractive package (if you like silver)
• Monoprice Liquid Spark is a competent headphone amplifier

With this stack you can be sure to exclude (potential) PC problems from the equation and have a more convenient connection point + physical volume knob. You get some features that the PC cannot offer, like a dedicated clock for the digital audio part and native DSD decoding.

Do you need it? Not sure, my motivation for wanting an external DAC (Topping D10) is mainly potential clock issues, e.g. many PCs run their clocks in spread spectrum modes which is something you don't want for audio (my NUC doesn't even give access to this setting).
Do I (and will you) really hear the difference? Again, not sure, but it gives me piece of mind that I'm not injecting (subliminal) jitter noise into an otherwise pristine digital signal.

The Topping D30 is available in black. Here's a link: Black D30.

 

[john5220]

Have you ever listened to his music on speakers?

No I do not have any good speakers, I had contemplated getting Klipsch Pro Media for $125 on Amazon but I thought I might have been disappointed after being accustomed to the HD 58x.

One day I want to get a Klipsch floor standing speaker set tho

 

[john5220]

The Topping D30 is available in black. Here's a link: Black D30.

I got the black in Like New Condition for $89 so i took it and a new Liquid spark amp for $113 along with the RCA cable

 

[DarrylG]

I saw Oluv's review of the Drop x Focal Elex the other day. He didn't use his phone. He used what looked like a Topping DX3 Pro amp/dac.

 

[john5220]

I saw Oluv's review of the Drop x Focal Elex the other day. He didn't use his phone. He used what looked like a Topping DX3 Pro amp/dac.

yeah if they really were all identical he would have just used his phone.

Oluv always comes across as extremely genuine and so pleasant.

 

[DarrylG]

yeah if they really were all identical he would have just used his phone.

Oluv always comes across as extremely genuine and so pleasant.

I agree. I watch his videos because I like them and him. I'm just pointing out that when it came to a headphone he was especially excited about trying out, he listened to it through a good desktop dac/amp.

 

[RayDunzl]

Amazing how people here made me feel so great about my purchase.

How about a generic picture:

(I did not add the YOU ARE HERE part)

 

[zermak]

Besides all said, please give a try to the future new amp connected to the Asus sound card and compare it against the new USB DAC. I doubt you will notice any audible differences (even if the new DAC is probably better spec'ed).

 

[john5220]

Is this a good site and article for me to study and understand how the subjective audio scam works?

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html?m=1

 

[MRC01]

How about a generic picture: ...

That looks like the Gartner hype curve. It quickly rises to the peak of inflated expectations, drops to the trough of disillusionment, then climbs the slope of enlightenment to the plateau of productivity (or satisfaction).

 

[john5220]

It keeps getting better I found this topic today by accident

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/145244-external-amp-for-the-xonar-dg/

A user said he switched off headphone amp mode and selected speaker mode for his headphones on the Xonar DG which sounded massively better even tho its running at a horrible 100 ohm output impedance and still having to deal with a ****** opamp.

So I didn't make much of it but came home and tried it selected 2 speaker mode and used my headphone and switched back to headphone amp during a song and WOW he is right. The headphone AMP is complete trash in the Xonar DG it makes the music muffled which I think is distorted or noisy in scientific terms. The vocals get veiled and softer you can hear it distorting in headphone amp mode.

In speaker mode its so much cleaner and more LIVE sounding the problem here is its running at 100 ohm output impedance and is passing through maybe a bad opamp.

So this means when my D30 and Liquid Spark arrives I am very likely to notice a substantial improvement in sound quality. wow its a good thing I bought this DAC and AMP cause if it sounds THIS good in speaker output mode I could imagine the new setup?

Music makes me so happy I have to get back into smoking weed again. This takes music to another level

 

[raif71]

It keeps getting better I found this topic today by accident

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/145244-external-amp-for-the-xonar-dg/

A user said he switched off headphone amp mode and selected speaker mode for his headphones on the Xonar DG which sounded massively better even tho its running at a horrible 100 ohm output impedance and still having to deal with a ****** opamp.

So I didn't make much of it but came home and tried it selected 2 speaker mode and used my headphone and switched back to headphone amp during a song and WOW he is right. The headphone AMP is complete trash in the Xonar DG it makes the music muffled which I think is distorted or noisy in scientific terms. The vocals get veiled and softer you can hear it distorting in headphone amp mode.

In speaker mode its so much cleaner and more LIVE sounding the problem here is its running at 100 ohm output impedance and is passing through maybe a bad opamp.

So this means when my D30 and Liquid Spark arrives I am very likely to notice a substantial improvement in sound quality. wow its a good thing I bought this DAC and AMP cause if it sounds THIS good in speaker output mode I could imagine the new setup?

Music makes me so happy I have to get back into smoking weed again. This takes music to another level

With such a high output impedance , will this change drastically the frequency response of the headphones? I suppose if you like what you hear, then I guess that's what matters, right?

 

[Blake Klondike]

I am sure others have mentioned this but the DAC and amp will give you a lot more headroom than the phone, too. Plus, it will be consistent regardless of what they do with the iphones over the years. Having a nice listening setup is a lot more fun than too!

 

[john5220]

With such a high output impedance , will this change drastically the frequency response of the headphones? I suppose if you like what you hear, then I guess that's what matters, right?

This is the weird thing with line out speaker mode being 100 ohm or more output impedance the sound is cleaner, louder and more live. Atleast on this sound card, maybe others with some knowledge can shine some light onto this why

From what I have read the reason could be the headphone amp in the xonar dg is likely very bad.

To be specific the amp on the xonar dg is a TI DRV601RTJR

Can someone shed some light on what the heck is going on here?

 

[john5220]

things looking up got a refund of a total of $35 now for this setup so I feel much better at keeping it when it arrives however I suspect that I may like the tube sound because I been looking at some tube videos blind test on youtube and tube sure does sound so good with electric guitars playing romantic songs.

I wonder why is this? is it really possible that my brain can prefer lots of harmonic distortion?

Is there a way for me to emulate a tube sound on my PC? I assume this just means carrying up the THD to like 3%? anyone knows why high THD can sound so good?

 

[majingotan]

things looking up got a refund of a total of $35 now for this setup so I feel much better at keeping it when it arrives however I suspect that I may like the tube sound because I been looking at some tube videos blind test on youtube and tube sure does sound so good with electric guitars playing romantic songs.

I wonder why is this? is it really possible that my brain can prefer lots of harmonic distortion?

Is there a way for me to emulate a tube sound on my PC? I assume this just means carrying up the THD to like 3%? anyone knows why high THD can sound so good?

Guitar tube amps are made to deliberately make pleasing sounds on the right harmonic distortion (EVEN harmonic distortion). Here's an article explaining more about it https://producerhive.com/ask-the-hive/odd-vs-even-harmonic-distortion/

Keep in mind that this is psychoacoustics so I don't know how much of a subjective bias this article contains. However, for playing back recorded music, it's distortion free music that's warranted. As for me, I also enjoy even harmonic distortion and that's why I have a Schiit Saga on tube mode if I want pleasing even harmonic distortion (0.01% THD or higher) or set it to passive mode for 121 dB (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-of-schiit-saga-tube-pre-amp.6520/) worth of SINAD playback.

 

[raif71]

Have you tried IEM's? I like my 650's too, but if people are around they certainly do leak...

Always something new to move 'up' to...even if it often turns out more to be a move sideways...

Yes, I have tried iems but I don't like something sticking into my ear hahahaha

I'd gone and bought some iems recently and surprise surprise I quite enjoyed them. Now I have Moondrop Starfield, KZ ZS10 Pro, Tin T2+ and TFZ King Pro.

 

[Blank Verse]

This thread was a fun read. I hope @john5220 found his setup provided a noticeable difference over his soundcard and didn't resort to drastic measures.

In my experience, the vast majority of headphones don't need any amp if you have a reasonably good designed source, even a portable one. Even 300 ohm headphones don't need an amp necessarily. I see Oluv got some flack for that video, but he was stating a very simple thing, and he actually provided sound files for anybody to download. I don't think he made a blanket statement about headphone amps being a waste of money for all headphones.

The HD58x, HD600, and HD650 are actually very sensitive headphones and don't require an amp if you have a source that works for them. You don't need something special, just something which is not crap. The only way you can determine this is by testing. I would never buy a headphone amp before buying a headphone. And in any case I would find a portable source which works, and then take it with me along with the headphone to the store when testing amps, because otherwise you might be spending your money in a very expensive placebo.

I am not talking from a theoretical point of view, I actually am listening as I type to an HD540 Ref 2 (which is a 300 ohm headphone and quite a bit less sensitive than an HD600) from a portable MP3 player. I have the volume at about 80% because more than that would be uncomfortably loud. I hear no distortion, and all the frequencies are represented naturally. The bass is fricking awesome and well defined. For example, bass drum hits on orchestral works appear clear and powerful, cymbals are transparent and well defined (all the frequencies that make a cymbal hit sound like a cymbal hit are there). I can run this for 10 hours on a 850mah Eneloop AAA battery. Just think a little bit about what I just told you.

If I run the HD540 from an O2/ODAC combo I have, in order to get the same volume I have to dial it only between 9 and 10 o'clock, but I hear no perceptible difference. I am not saying that the sound I will get will measure exactly the same, just that I can't hear a difference, so there is no advantage for me in using the O2/ODAC in this scenario. My K240M (600 ohm) is a different story, but the HD540, which is a tougher nut to crack than the HD600 sings happily from my portable mid 2000s, run from an AAA battery mp3 player.

The good thing about having a nice DAC/amp combo is that it gives you versatility and something to fall back to, a reference.

I don't think the main reason portable sources or computer outputs can sound like crap with headphones is because they don't have power. Mostly it's due to poor designs or to bad matching of components (I'm talking mostly about output impedance, for example).

 

[Celty]

This thread was a fun read. I hope @john5220 found his setup provided a noticeable difference over his soundcard and didn't resort to drastic measures.

In my experience, the vast majority of headphones don't need any amp if you have a reasonably good designed source, even a portable one. Even 300 ohm headphones don't need an amp necessarily. I see Oluv got some flack for that video, but he was stating a very simple thing, and he actually provided sound files for anybody to download. I don't think he made a blanket statement about headphone amps being a waste of money for all headphones.

The HD58x, HD600, and HD650 are actually very sensitive headphones and don't require an amp if you have a source that works for them. You don't need something special, just something which is not crap. The only way you can determine this is by testing. I would never buy a headphone amp before buying a headphone. And in any case I would find a portable source which works, and then take it with me along with the headphone to the store when testing amps, because otherwise you might be spending your money in a very expensive placebo.

I am not talking from a theoretical point of view, I actually am listening as I type to an HD540 Ref 2 (which is a 300 ohm headphone and quite a bit less sensitive than an HD600) from a portable MP3 player. I have the volume at about 80% because more than that would be uncomfortably loud. I hear no distortion, and all the frequencies are represented naturally. The bass is fricking awesome and well defined. For example, bass drum hits on orchestral works appear clear and powerful, cymbals are transparent and well defined (all the frequencies that make a cymbal hit sound like a cymbal hit are there). I can run this for 10 hours on a 850mah Eneloop AAA battery. Just think a little bit about what I just told you.

If I run the HD540 from an O2/ODAC combo I have, in order to get the same volume I have to dial it only between 9 and 10 o'clock, but I hear no perceptible difference. I am not saying that the sound I will get will measure exactly the same, just that I can't hear a difference, so there is no advantage for me in using the O2/ODAC in this scenario. My K240M (600 ohm) is a different story, but the HD540, which is a tougher nut to crack than the HD600 sings happily from my portable mid 2000s, run from an AAA battery mp3 player.

The good thing about having a nice DAC/amp combo is that it gives you versatility and something to fall back to, a reference.

I don't think the main reason portable sources or computer outputs can sound like crap with headphones is because they don't have power. Mostly it's due to poor designs or to bad matching of components (I'm talking mostly about output impedance, for example).

I had the HD6XX prior to getting a DAC and an amp. They were driven by my desktop soundcard (Asus Essence STX - a high quality card). It sounded pretty good I thought.

Then I plugged them into the SU-8/887 THX and wow! The untapped potential that poured out of the HD6XX surprised the heck out out of me. It really did transform them to a new level.

So while yes, the HD6XX can certainly don't need an amp to produce music, they do need one to display the sound they are capable of.

 

[Blank Verse]

I had the HD6XX prior to getting a DAC and an amp. They were driven by my desktop soundcard (Asus Essence STX - a high quality card). It sounded pretty good I thought.

Then I plugged them into the SU-8/887 THX and wow! The untapped potential that poured out of the HD6XX surprised the heck out out of me. It really did transform them to a new level.

So while yes, the HD6XX can certainly don't need an amp to produce music, they do need one to display the sound they are capable of.

I believe you, because you have experienced this. Obviously the Asus Essence STX wasn't a good match for the HD6XX. I'm just saying that there are plenty of cheap sources that are good matches for the HD6XX that would make you question your need to use an amp.

I am not saying that having an amp is a waste of time and money, though. This is a hobby we get into, and there is certain enjoyment in having a nice audio chain which has nothing to do with pragmatic benefit. And even then, there is some practical benefit as well. As I said in my previous post, the advantage of having a nice DAC/amp system is that it removes the guess work and it can be used as a reference. It's something you can rely on to power multiple cans and get a provable result. But it is not necessary to use an amp to get results that are indistinguisable from what you get from an amp if you have a good source. Or maybe Oluv and I (and all the other people who can't distinguish) are deaf, or you have golden ears.