So my DAC and AMP are on the way and now I learn it will make no difference over my Smartphone

[MRC01]

... I was told planar are better than any dynamic headphone and can do things dynamic can't do that is why I assumed the HE4xx was an upgrade to the 58x

There is some truth to that. The best planars have lower distortion and flatter more extended FR in the bass, compared to the best dynamics. Yet some dynamics are better than some planars even in the bass. And from around 100 Hz through 4 kHz where most of the musical energy is, the price/performance is about the same with either design.

The 58x is a well engineered headphone whose performance is hard to beat at twice its price. The HE4xx seems more of a side-grade than an up-grade. However, the HE4xx is easier to drive so having a headphone amp makes less of a difference.

 

[john5220]

There is some truth to that. The best planars have lower distortion and flatter more extended FR in the bass, compared to the best dynamics. Yet some dynamics are better than some planars even in the bass. And from around 100 Hz through 4 kHz where most of the musical energy is, the price/performance is about the same with either design.

The 58x is a well engineered headphone whose performance is hard to beat at twice its price. The HE4xx seems more of a side-grade than an up-grade. However, the HE4xx is easier to drive so having a headphone amp makes less of a difference.

Thanks u just saved me a bunch of money

Can u recommend a amazing bass head headphones with good balanced mid clarity for EDM music?

Or do u recommend I stop this nonsense and be satisfied with my hd58x

On another note the dac and amp reached my freight forwarder today and stupid Amazon packaged it in a huge box so they are charging me $40 to ship to the Caribbean when it should really be $15

I feel sad

 

[MRC01]

... Can u recommend a amazing bass head headphones with good balanced mid clarity for EDM music? ...

That's like asking, "What's better - boxers or briefs?" What people like in headphones is personal with a lot of variation.

I'm not a bass-head and I don't listen to EDM, so I'm probably the wrong person to ask. The HD58x strength is its midrange, neutral, clear and low distortion. In the lowest bass octave, its bass rolls off and distortion increases. But this happens with nearly all headphones and the HD58x is better than most even in the bass.

Some planars like the Audeze LCD-2 have better bass response: linear down to the sub-bass with low distortion. But, they don't have "big" bass, meaning they don't artificially elevate the bass response. And they cost several times more than the HD58x. And their response in the upper mids & treble is not as neutral. Choose your poison!

... Or do u recommend I stop this nonsense and be satisfied with my hd58x ...

That's some of the best advice I've yet seen. The HD58x is among the best headphones, so at least try them for a while. Some headphones reach out and grab you, sound great at first then the more you listen the less you like them because that sound is artificial. The HD58x is the opposite. They have a natural sound that doesn't reach out and grab you at first. Some people call them "Veil-heisers" because of this. But the more you listen, the more you realize that they are presenting all the musical detail, yet without artificially exaggerating it.

 

[BDWoody]

That's like asking, "What's better - boxers or briefs?"

Except that's an easy one, with only one correct answer...
Boxers obviously...

 

[john5220]

I feel very suicidal right now, can't believe I was conned into believing a DAC and AMP would even be worth my time and money over my old sound card.

Even worse now I have to Pay Vat and Duty to clear this stupid amp and dac, then pay to ship it back to Amazon from my country then pay a whopping $40 US to ship it here.

I cannot believe the audiophile world conned me into buying this crap that is not even going to make any difference over my Xonar DG

Basically I paid a total of $320 for a used D30 DAC and new liquid spark amp. And I will only recover $180 from this horrible ordeal. Someone here said buy it and don't look back that is what I did and now I want to literally kill myself since this was my life's savings I spent here.

Feel so depressed, really hope this somehow is worth the money over my current sound card but we know damn well it isn't

 

[BDWoody]

Someone here said buy it and don't look back that is what I did...

The key is the not looking back part.

Life has a way of making some lessons more memorable.

I'm truly sorry for how you feel. It is clear you care a great deal about your sound quality, and feeling like you open up your trusting musical soul to someone, who takes advantage of it by manipulating your emotions and then takes your very hard earned money just sucks. You feel betrayed, and now you are left with less money and no better sound.

However...

You now have very good gear coming which you will likely be able to make use of long after you would have moved on from your sound card...you just bought it earlier than you needed to!

Now...you can settle into your new gear and expect you will still have it in 10 years...as they meet a threshold of performance that you won't have to keep worrying about.

Keep your eyes forward and your feet moving through it all... I look forward to hearing about how much you are enjoying your new gear.

Cheers.

 

[raif71]

- good song for any gear

 

[john5220]

Alright while I have not yet heard the new gear, from research I have done with people who own the Xonar DG they said there is no difference and that is enough to tell me I wasted my money

However the new gear will be arriving in a couple days so will still give a review of it. But I know damn well I wasted my money here, tho it still doesn't explain why my old Xonar DX sounded so much better than my DG.

I will know soon, btw if I decide to keep this DAC and AMP what headphone could I be looking at in a future upgrade that would provide a significant upgrade to the already great HD58x Jubilee I have?

I heard Planar like LCD etc are a huge step up? my idea of huge step up is having incredible bass that you would normally find in loud speakers where bass volume wouldn't drown out mid and high range. I wonder if a headphone can ever match something like that?

I am not in the business of buying headphones only to find marginal differences while delusional audiophiles call it a "HUGE Upgrade" like how they lied about HD6xx being a HUGE upgrade to the HD58x when in reality they are both almost identical.

 

[strangeskies]

How could an all powerful, all-loving, all-knowing god allow an evil so profound as buyer's remorse?

 

[MediumRare]

I feel very suicidal right now, can't believe I was conned into believing a DAC and AMP would even be worth my time and money over my old sound card.

Even worse now I have to Pay Vat and Duty to clear this stupid amp and dac, then pay to ship it back to Amazon from my country then pay a whopping $40 US to ship it here.

I cannot believe the audiophile world conned me into buying this crap that is not even going to make any difference over my Xonar DG

Basically I paid a total of $320 for a used D30 DAC and new liquid spark amp. And I will only recover $180 from this horrible ordeal. Someone here said buy it and don't look back that is what I did and now I want to literally kill myself since this was my life's savings I spent here.

Feel so depressed, really hope this somehow is worth the money over my current sound card but we know damn well it isn't

Hey drama queen, how about you wait to even hear these things? You’re way too influenced by other people, both on the buy decision and the whole buyer’s remorse over-reaction. The D30 is excellent and the headphone amp probably will make a difference. So just chill and enjoy the music.

 

[BDWoody]

Alright while I have not yet heard the new gear, from research I have done with people who own the Xonar DG they said there is no difference and that is enough to tell me I wasted my money

However the new gear will be arriving in a couple days so will still give a review of it. But I know damn well I wasted my money here, tho it still doesn't explain why my old Xonar DX sounded so much better than my DG.

I will know soon, btw if I decide to keep this DAC and AMP what headphone could I be looking at in a future upgrade that would provide a significant upgrade to the already great HD58x Jubilee I have?

I heard Planar like LCD etc are a huge step up? my idea of huge step up is having incredible bass that you would normally find in loud speakers where bass volume wouldn't drown out mid and high range. I wonder if a headphone can ever match something like that?

I am not in the business of buying headphones only to find marginal differences while delusional audiophiles call it a "HUGE Upgrade" like how they lied about HD6xx being a HUGE upgrade to the HD58x when in reality they are both almost identical.

Well, you've certainly gotten a lot of input from this and other threads on that exact question.
What do YOU think right now? Based on what feedback you've gotten so far...

 

[pozz]

Alright while I have not yet heard the new gear, from research I have done with people who own the Xonar DG they said there is no difference and that is enough to tell me I wasted my money.

Dude: "research" is not reading every opinion you can on performance, taking everything you're told at face value and trying to come to some internal consensus about what to do. You have to have some means of weighing what you read and developing a sense of judgment and a useful sense of scepticism. The important thing is understanding how someone, the opinion-giver, came to their conclusions. Here, you can expect informed answers backed up with evidence.

You didn't waste $200 and your current headphones are excellent—so excellent that they are used in studios for mixing music.

For example, this is how I would judge the stuff you read about the Xonar DG:

• I searched for and found these specs posted on the Asus website and these measurements made by a reviewer. However, both are not useful indicators of quality because the test rig and measurement conditions aren't described. Armed with this knowledge, you can safely throw out almost every listed performance metric that's thrown around as simply uninformative. (To understand why please read this note by Rane, which states which conditions need to be stated to make measurement results meaningful and comparable to others. If you don't understand even after reading, that's fine, but then you also have to admit to yourself that you don't know enough to come to a conclusion.)
• Amir made this review of a Asus Xonar U7 Mk2. Output impedance was measured at 22 ohms. This means headphones of less than 200 ohms or so will show frequency response changes. Given the weak heaphone amp module, 5mW at 300 ohm and 22mW at 33 ohm, this means that neither you nor most other users can even use high impedance headphones. Despite that, the audible changes aren't something people can detect unless they know what to listen for, in other words, unless they are trained.
• The conclusion I would reach, on the basis of measured information and without ever listening, is that the Xonar DG (apparently $70 on Amazon, or maybe $45), and the more expensive Xonar U7 MK2 ($90 on Amazon), are both bad choices for someone who cares about sound quality. Aside from the output impedance issue, weak headphone amplifiers will be driven into clipping when listening and will easily produce audible distortions for those who know what distortion sounds like.
• By the way, as a side note, listing dB versions for the Xonar DG is an incredibly misleading and wrong way to advertise a product.

Finally, listening for audible differences in electronics as a test of their quality is a waste of time. Quality tests are done with gear. Go with the numbers and learn what they mean. Learn to slow down and admit that you don't know, and learn to not get hung up on the judgments of others. Otherwise you will be stuck trying to decide whose opinion you trust more, which is not the right way to make decisions.

If any of the above is unclear, please ask.

Hey drama queen, how about you wait to even hear these things? You’re way too influenced by other people, both on the buy decision and the whole buyer’s remorse over-reaction. The D30 is excellent and the headphone amp probably will make a difference. So just chill and enjoy the music.

When a person is obviously young and suffering, it's best to just be patient.

 

[john5220]

OK so SOME good news, I can testify that Oluv isn't entirely accurate. He tried thousand dollar DAC and AMPs against smartphones and didn't notice any difference.

While I don't have a Iphone 6s like he does I do have a Samsung S7 Edge Snapdragon which I understand has a very capable DAC I tested it against my motherboard and the smartphone is better sounding.

Against my Xonar DG I first came to the same conclusion Oluv came as in no difference, HOWEVER I fired up Yoshi Horikawa - Fluid song in FLAC and switching back and forth between my Xonar DG and my S7 Samsung I can notice a very much audible difference. The Xonar clearly reproduces all the small audible frequencies in the track that makes it sound "musical" and makes my head shake to the music. The Samsung S7 does NOT do this, these little musical stuff are muffled in the S7

So there is that and it means GOOD news for me. So the question now is if that D30 and Liquid Spark is going to do the exact same thing but even better. At this point I am doubting anything is going to beat this Xonar DG I think we are approaching the limit of the human hearing here at just $30.

Hoping to be wrong, hoping for a clear step above improvement with new DAC and AMP. IT HAS TO, every review I read said how good those DAC and AMP are over sound cards etc It has to be true it just has to be I must know.... I wanted to know over 10 years what good DAC and AMP sounds like so I suppose this is a lesson for my mind to finally be at ease

Fingers crossed, will keep you all posted if I made a good decision or wasted my life's savings.

DAC and AMP arrives either tomorrow or Tuesday.

 

[pozz]

OK so SOME good news, I can testify that Oluv isn't entirely accurate. He tried thousand dollar DAC and AMPs against smartphones and didn't notice any difference.

While I don't have a Iphone 6s like he does I do have a Samsung S7 Edge Snapdragon which I understand has a very capable DAC I tested it against my motherboard and the smartphone is better sounding.

Against my Xonar DG I first came to the same conclusion Oluv came as in no difference, HOWEVER I fired up Yoshi Horikawa - Fluid song in FLAC and switching back and forth between my Xonar DG and my S7 Samsung I can notice a very much audible difference. The Xonar clearly reproduces all the small audible frequencies in the track that makes it sound "musical" and makes my head shake to the music. The Samsung S7 does NOT do this, these little musical stuff are muffled in the S7

So there is that and it means GOOD news for me. So the question now is if that D30 and Liquid Spark is going to do the exact same thing but even better. At this point I am doubting anything is going to beat this Xonar DG I think we are approaching the limit of the human hearing here at just $30.

Hoping to be wrong, hoping for a clear step above improvement with new DAC and AMP. IT HAS TO, every review I read said how good those DAC and AMP are over sound cards etc It has to be true it just has to be I must know.... I wanted to know over 10 years what good DAC and AMP sounds like so I suppose this is a lesson for my mind to finally be at ease

Fingers crossed, will keep you all posted if I made a good decision or wasted my life's savings.

DAC and AMP arrives either tomorrow or Tuesday.

This is incorrect. Your listening impressions are not useful even for yourself if you don't follow a strict protocol.

 

[MediumRare]

When a person is obviously young and suffering, it's best to just be patient.

My two sprogs are 19 and 21, so all advice is welcome!

 

[pozz]

@john5220 I'm worried about you man. You really did not make an error in buying the DAC & amp. Your error, which I don't know if you can admit to, is believing that you would immediately get incredible improvements.

It's one that we all made. Look at this thread that @VintageFlanker just started: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...from-audiophile-snake-oil-facepalm-time.9950/

I joined ASR because the type of uninformed stupidity people spread about audio gear and how much you should spend and what you should expect to hear causes a lot of problems. This was one my first posts: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-bad-about-spending-too-much-on-audio.7633/

 

[BDWoody]

My two sprogs are 19 and 21, so all advice is welcome!

Mine are 21 and 24... I feel your pain!
Don't minimize their problems, just because they don't know what 'real' problems are.
They are real to them.

 

[john5220]

@john5220 I'm worried about you man. You really did not make an error in buying the DAC & amp. Your error, which I don't know if you can admit to, is believing that you would immediately get incredible improvements.

It's one that we all made. Look at this thread that @VintageFlanker just started: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...from-audiophile-snake-oil-facepalm-time.9950/

I joined ASR because the type of uninformed stupidity people spread about audio gear and how much you should spend and what you should expect to hear causes a lot of problems. This was one my first posts: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-bad-about-spending-too-much-on-audio.7633/

Thanks for this effort you put into the other post where you exposed the poor AMP and stuff regarding the Xonar DG this does make me feel a lot more safe and less paranoid. Very clear insight into how things are done, it appears you are indeed right I had no idea about this information on the Xonar DG

So its true you are right I did NOT make a bad decision in buying the D30 and the Spark, as you said the Xonar DG can end up going into clipping and sorts of distortion trying to drive my HD 58x. I don't know if "harsh" is a real term for amp and dac but the xonar does sound harsher driving my HD58x compared to my 55ohm HD 555. I am doubting its the 58x causing me this problem and more the sound card. \

Aah I feel much better

 

[pozz]

@BDWoody

"Every day above ground is a good day" is right.

 

[MRC01]

Alright while I have not yet heard the new gear, from research I have done with people who own the Xonar DG they said there is no difference and that is enough to tell me I wasted my money...

You can find someone on the internet saying anything. Some say it makes no difference, others say the difference is a chorus of angels. What matters is your opinion.

...I heard Planar like LCD etc are a huge step up? my idea of huge step up is having incredible bass that you would normally find in loud speakers where bass volume wouldn't drown out mid and high range. I wonder if a headphone can ever match something like that? ...

The LCD 2, 3 and 4 do have some of the best bass response of any headphone. As close as you can get to ruler flat from subsonic well into the upper mids. And some of the lowest measured bass distortion of any headphone. That's an objective fact confirmed with measurements. However, whether this is a "huge step up", how much difference it makes, is entirely subjective. Human hearing is less sensitive to distortion in the bass. The HD58x is among the best headhpones both in measurements and subjective listening, and costs several times less than the LCD.

Your setup is not audiophile ridiculous, but a reasonable approach to the best sound for the dollar. In headphone audio, the first few hundred bucks you spend (if spent wisely) gets you 98% of the best available sound at any price. Enjoy it!