Snobbery in Hi-Fi. Why are people so stupid and turn their noses up at gear costing much less which is just as good?

[Newman]

I'll have to ask for proof of A. (which is up to you, since you are the one asserting that it is wrong [I thought so, too, as I thought that it was 147 MPH {not that it will make much difference when you hit a tree at that speed}). But this is for the newest model year that the company published.
If I was in the market for one, I would look for proof. Since you assert that I am wrong, it is up to you to prove it. Please do, as I now would also like to know.

It's very easy to spot. Maybe you are looking too intently?

 

[wadude]

I don’t want to own a Morgan Plus4 but it be fun to lease one for week.

 

[EJ3]

You seem to have parked your sense of humour completely. Tender spot!

Again, calling anti-snobbery snobbery is projection.

I did not realize that this snobbery discussion was supposed to be humorous.
Although, I do find that some peoples actions to be snobby are humorous.
I was once observing nature in a field (for the purposes of deciding if their were animals around that I could take for dinner at some point).
There was a girl riding a horse who suddenly decided to come up to me and sneakily ask "Just what do you think that you are looking at?" as if she was someone that I should know was important.
I said (what I thought was humorous but she did not): "Not much, apparently."
She seemed miffed as she rode off, which I did find humorous.

 

[EJ3]

It's very easy to spot. Maybe you are looking too intently?

Actually, I did not look at it at all, except to see that it seemed to be published by a Harley Davidson dealer and I copied and posted.
But, I see that you can't or won't answer a straight question. That makes you useless to me, as I don't waste time with BS. You are now blocked. Once again.
Ah. maybe not, every once in a while, you do put out a gem.
(Perhaps by accident?)

 

[Keith_W]

 

[drewdawg999]

Well, so much for a rich people and snobbery hating thread. Looks like we should just rename this thread to cool cars, watches and motorcycles we like.

Yes it's too bad, as I have little interest in cars, watches, or motorcycles. Seems I'm in a vast minority here in just wanting to get from point A to point B. I used to have an interest in fake Chinese Rolexes when my Uncle gave me one right off his wrist. Then he got me another one, straight from the Chinese factory, big garish thing, silver & gold bracelet. My shrink had the same watch, except for real. 6 grand for a wind-up wristwatch seems like conspicuous consumption to me.

The moral of the story? Even if it's out of your budget, you can still always admire from afar like I do; no need to have so much hate, lack of self-esteem and envy.

I don't think hate or envy or self-esteem issues are all that prevalent for the have-nots in hi-fi. It's more an aching or yearning, FOMO of the young. But we can start pitying now for overspending audiophool suckers out there. I for one don't hate people for owning Wilson speakers, I used to want them too but not anymore. Not much is in my budget, though I almost pulled the trigger on the Ascilab F6Bs, was gonna use them as my mains though they seem better suited as surrounds. This objectivity in hi-fi has done wonders for my wallet though, the only thing in my system that doesn't measure well is my speakers. They're the last thing to drool over, a pair of Genelecs perhaps, which remain a pipe dream.

 

[Newman]

So what? They're not racing anyone, just enjoying the leisurely cruise and not pretending to be someone or something they aren't.

Again, the goalposts are moving so fast that they are getting speed wobbles of their very own. (Which seems appropriate on a HD discussion.)

But truth being, the H-D is still the most coveted bike anywhere on the planet. The ricer bike guys only try to make fun because they're so freakin JEALOUS! LOL
Besides, When I want to go fast I had my Ducati or (HD powered) Buell.

HD are the least competitive and functionally competent bike brand on the planet. Fat, slow, underpowered, overweight, overpriced steel horses for jello cowboys.

All they ever really traded on was swaggering patriotism and an overabundance of 'male compensation factors'. "Look at me, I finally got a big shiny one!" "I am the god of thunder! Well, as long as the motor's running."

For decades, they did nothing but break down, provide numb and painful extremities, and act as mobile chicanes for real motorcyclists out having fun on bikes that are pleasures to ride. Even the US bike magazines, whenever they did a comparison of cruisers, found all the clones to be better bikes than the originals. Actually more pleasurable, better bikes, not just in performance numbers. How humiliating! The company eventually got their act somewhat together, basically by stopping being themselves and copying modern production techniques from real bike manufacturers who knew what they were doing.

They were such a laughing stock on group rides that they eventually retreated to a HD-only riders group created by the company in 1983 and where, sheltered from any feedback from real motorcyclists and real bikes that actually went, their massive yet tender egos could be gently massaged to gigantic proportions by company-sponsored shills constantly telling them, in a carefully sealed echo chamber, that they are on the greatest of bikes. Maybe the same shills were telling the HOG boys that everyone else is jealous? LOL

Remember, Sal, when you were lording over the vinyl revival thread with wit, humour and mockery? And remember how the diehards couldn't handle it at all, got really upset, and reported you into oblivion until the mods permanently banned you? That's what happens when people get inappropriately attached to unimportant things, like a brand name. They lose their equilibrium when challenged. I know you aren't like that, and that I am safe having a bit of a dig at a brand that gets over-worshipped. On ASR I think it's cool to keep that in mind. Our toys are nothing more than that, they aren't our children or our mothers, they don't need protection, and giving legends a bit of flak based on their actual performance should be met with a smile.

Which segues right into the original intent of this thread: brand snobbery does nothing but get in the way of finding out what actually works best and what is all show. It gives companies a reward they don't deserve, and acting as brand ambassadors creates propaganda and confuses people who enter a discussion and simply want the truth.

cheers

 

[Newman]

Actually, I did not look at it at all, except to see that it seemed to be published by a Harley Davidson dealer and I copied and posted.
But, I see that you can't or won't answer a straight question. That makes you useless to me, as I don't waste time with BS. You are now blocked. Once again.
Ah. maybe not, every once in a while, you do put out a gem.
(Perhaps by accident?)

Okay, I'll lay it out for you: the speed, power and acceleration numbers don't fit together. Something has to be wrong.

I thought it was so simple that it didn't need this amount of back and forth. But taking me to task for it without even reading it, then nearly blocking me over it..... come on. How important is it?

 

[EJ3]

Okay, I'll lay it out for you: the speed, power and acceleration numbers don't fit together. Something has to be wrong.

I thought it was so simple that it didn't need this amount of back and forth. But taking me to task for it without even reading it, then nearly blocking me over it..... come on. How important is it?

By
"reading it"
I meant critically going over it. Nothing stood out when I did.
I have built "naked" Go-Karts with twin 15 HP McCulloch 101 engines (so 30 HP total) that managed to get clocked by a police radar gun at 133 MPH.
With different gearing and the right sized driver (lighter, smaller, wearing sleeker clothing (rather then a Wrangler jeans & Jacket), I'm sure that the speed could have been faster.
There are too many variables with test conditions, tuning and tweaking of things for you to be able to come out and say that's not possible.
Now, would the average one, off the show room floor do that? I do not know.
When I was in Quality control for the Porsche factory (2004-2009), running the cars on a chassis dyno before they were shipped to dealers:
One of the things that we were taught was never overstate. Example: So if a number of cars of a particular model where tested tested to go 173 MPH, don't say or publicly let that out, because someone is bound to test theirs. And if they find that it went 172, they will be pissed and that will get spread around that our cars won't do what we say they will.
But, if you say or publish that it will go 170 MPH, and it goes 173 MPH, they will be happy and likely to spread around that we exceed what we say/publish.
Again, it's up to you to find something that proves the dealership (and, I guess Harley Davidson) is wrong.
The information states where it came from and I have no reason (nor ever will, as I am not in the market for one) to dig into it.
If you think it's wrong: Prove it! Somehow you are on a quasi scientific forum spouting things that are just conjecture.
Because of your obvious over the top hatred for a brand. I really don't care about a brand or the what the people are like that enjoy the brand.
I buy things because the meet my wants and needs at the time that I buy them (those needs always include simplicity to work on, reliability and longevity), along with many others.
And don't blame the messenger for the message.
Pointing out what you think is one thing. Playing games is another. This fits into the latter category.

 

[PristineSound]

I don't think hate or envy or self-esteem issues are all that prevalent for the have-nots in hi-fi. It's more an aching or yearning, FOMO of the young. But we can start pitying now for overspending audiophool suckers out there. I for one don't hate people for owning Wilson speakers, I used to want them too but not anymore. Not much is in my budget, though I almost pulled the trigger on the Ascilab F6Bs, was gonna use them as my mains though they seem better suited as surrounds. This objectivity in hi-fi has done wonders for my wallet though, the only thing in my system that doesn't measure well is my speakers. They're the last thing to drool over, a pair of Genelecs perhaps, which remain a pipe dream.

I am glad, but I honestly can't say that is universally true.

While in my experience I haven't encountered too many rich folks looking down on those with less because they are too busy enjoying their own lives. I also haven't experienced many who thinks life is unfair if they don't have as much as others because they are too focused on achieving their own goals.

But I do come across here and there those with less than others having self-esteem issues and yes, envy too, as I am seeing here.

By my own account, I am not rich, heck compared to some people that I know in my far orbit, I am very poor. But according to statistics of an average American, I am in the upper 50 percentile of earners, and it's for anyone to guess where in that upper 50 percentile. So by objective datapoint, I am richer than at least 50% of Americans.

But over the years, I have learn in life that there will always be someone who has less than you and someone who has more than you. As such, I appreciate what I have, despite how much less it may be compared to some. And in the company of those less fortunate, I am even more appreciative.

But unfortunately, that is simply not the case with everyone.

 

[MattHooper]

Again, the goalposts are moving so fast that they are getting speed wobbles of their very own. (Which seems appropriate on a HD discussion.)

HD are the least competitive and functionally competent bike brand on the planet. Fat, slow, underpowered, overweight, overpriced steel horses for jello cowboys.

All they ever really traded on was swaggering patriotism and an overabundance of 'male compensation factors'. "Look at me, I finally got a big shiny one!" "I am the god of thunder! Well, as long as the motor's running."

For decades, they did nothing but break down, provide numb and painful extremities, and act as mobile chicanes for real motorcyclists out having fun on bikes that are pleasures to ride. Even the US bike magazines, whenever they did a comparison of cruisers, found all the clones to be better bikes than the originals. Actually more pleasurable, better bikes, not just in performance numbers. How humiliating! The company eventually got their act somewhat together, basically by stopping being themselves and copying modern production techniques from real bike manufacturers who knew what they were doing.

They were such a laughing stock on group rides that they eventually retreated to a HD-only riders group created by the company in 1983 and where, sheltered from any feedback from real motorcyclists and real bikes that actually went, their massive yet tender egos could be gently massaged to gigantic proportions by company-sponsored shills constantly telling them, in a carefully sealed echo chamber, that they are on the greatest of bikes. Maybe the same shills were telling the HOG boys that everyone else is jealous? LOL

Remember, Sal, when you were lording over the vinyl revival thread with wit, humour and mockery? And remember how the diehards couldn't handle it at all, got really upset, and reported you into oblivion until the mods permanently banned you? That's what happens when people get inappropriately attached to unimportant things, like a brand name. They lose their equilibrium when challenged. I know you aren't like that, and that I am safe having a bit of a dig at a brand that gets over-worshipped. On ASR I think it's cool to keep that in mind. Our toys are nothing more than that, they aren't our children or our mothers, they don't need protection, and giving legends a bit of flak based on their actual performance should be met with a smile.

Which segues right into the original intent of this thread: brand snobbery does nothing but get in the way of finding out what actually works best and what is all show. It gives companies a reward they don't deserve, and acting as brand ambassadors creates propaganda and confuses people who enter a discussion and simply want the truth.

cheers

Har. I love the sharp pivot from a long, snobbish denigration of Harleys and their riders, straight into a sermon on the liabilities of snobbery.

Irony is on resuscitation.
Snobbery for me, but not for thee

 

[PristineSound]

Alright then, shall we get back to admiring rich people toys?

This is the V-Rod that made me fall in love with Harley

I find this mud room to my style

There is something about Omega Speedmaster that just gets to my heart

 

[Axo1989]

Har. I love the sharp pivot from a long, snobbish denigration of Harleys and their riders, straight into a sermon on the liabilities of snobbery.

Irony is on resuscitation.
Snobbery for me, but not for thee

Now you’ve got me to unhide and read hidden depths of this thread again. One of the fun parts of that vinyl renaissance thread was seeing old mate’s endless (and it was months or years even) denigration of records and turntables as ‘not-SOTA’ the dissolve into an all-caps rage when asked about his Harley fetish.

Amusingly Newman vents his spleen of Harley hate here then pirouettes to praising old Harley mate by suddenly shifting target to the dreaded vinylistas. Flashbacks from raging in that thread himself perhaps. Can you resuscitate irony in one that’s never breathed it?

 

[rf1938]

Don't know what this has to do with sound, but I suspect criticizing Harleys comes from someone who has never owned one. I had three, and throughly enjoyed all of them, including the maintenance, most of which I did. Also owned a BSA Lightning and a Ducati, also great fun. The Harley is a different experience, and if you've haven't ridden a high HP Sportster, then you have no place dissing them. Also owned an Austin Healey bug eyed Sprite, which has its own collection of mechanical eccentricities. Drove mine from central FL to southern Mexico and back. Great fun, Probably would have been more comfortable in a Prius, but they don't make a convertible.

 

[Axo1989]

Don't know what this has to do with sound, but I suspect criticizing Harleys comes from someone who has never owned one. I had three, and throughly enjoyed all of them, including the maintenance, most of which I did. Also owned a BSA Lightning and a Ducati, also great fun. The Harley is a different experience, and if you've haven't ridden a high HP Sportster, then you have no place dissing them. Also owned an Austin Healey bug eyed Sprite, which has its own collection of mechanical eccentricities. Drove mine from central FL to southern Mexico and back. Great fun, Probably would have been more comfortable in a Prius, but they don't make a convertible.

I recall a slightly younger me loving Ducatis for their v-twin sound, I don’t see/hear Harleys so often in this part of town (the twisty old highway that draws motorcycles to this locale isn’t hog-friendly) but they may also have (slightly different) audio appeal.

The Milwaukee cruisers aren’t for me personally, rider stereotypes aside I like to lean forward on a bike, leaning backward is for cars. And I’ve been burnt buying tools from Milwaukee, spanners that rust, ffs? I’ll tell you about my watch preferences next … oh wait.

 

[Sal1950]

I don’t want to own a Morgan Plus4 but it be fun to lease one for week.

Be sure to check the frame for termites or carpenter ants first.

HD are the least competitive and functionally competent bike brand on the planet. Fat, slow, underpowered, overweight, overpriced steel horses for jello cowboys.

God the light of your jealousy to own a big beautiful Harley is blinding me.

 

[wadude]

Be sure to check the frame for termites or carpenter ants first.

Mold and dry rot.

 

[krabapple]

Well, so much for a rich people and snobbery hating thread. Looks like we should just rename this thread to cool cars, watches and motorcycles we like.

The moral of the story? Even if it's out of your budget, you can still always admire from afar like I do; no need to have so much hate, lack of self-esteem and envy.

But amusement will always be OK.

Maybe when it stops being so terribly necessary for you to believe that 'hate, lack of self-esteem, and envy' are the only possible motives, you'll learn to chuckle at others' foibles (and your own).

 

[PristineSound]

But amusement will always be OK.

Maybe when it stops being so terribly necessary for you to believe that 'hate, lack of self-esteem, and envy' are the only possible motives, you'll learn to chuckle at others' foibles (and your own).

When one thinks the reason for others to buy luxury goods is just so that they can look down on others less fortunate or to satisfy their ego.

When one maintains that there are no possible way that a human being can possibly have any need, benefit or lust from anything beyond basic or entry level goods.

When one barks at others for spending more than they "should" or "need", even if it's not their own money.

These are the reoccurring opinions observed of the OP and few others over the course of these 60+ pages.

Then yes, I am of the opinion that hate, lack of self-esteem and/or envy can only be the reasons.

Opinion vs. opinion.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Not before I discuss my first motorcycle!

View attachment 538947

So you aren't Richard Dreyfuss Matt, how disappointing!