Snobbery in Hi-Fi. Why are people so stupid and turn their noses up at gear costing much less which is just as good?

[ahofer]

I know this too well Bob, as a hobbyist guitarist who’s done lots with it over the years, I too, felt like I needed the best and squinted while listening to equipment and compared guitars/amps/effects. That is no different from Hi-Fi, yet the term ‘tone’ is thrown about over there which means completely nothing because everything has it’s own sound. And doing it with guitars and guitar amplifiers is even more preposterous because these are low-fi instruments, they are not even capable of the extreme frequencies that good Hi-Fi gets you to. It’s a complete swindle and yet the next best product comes out or the next custom shop guitar People saying guitars from the 50s or 60s sound better and have a ‘tone’ and yes sure they’ll have variation but it's old gear. But actually a well-designed Stratocaster from any decade will pretty much sound identical through the same amplifier, given that all the pick-ups etc are of equal output. That is one instrument that is pretty linear in sound given the many factors are the same, they just have a sound, whether you pay £100 or £10,000. Definitely a sector in the snob brigade again.

Yup. And some makers have even become expert at mass-producing instruments with the feel of a well-used guitar. I recently bought a Sire (T7tm) and I’m shocked at the quality. I had it plekked, but it barely touched the frets. The roll-off/fret—end treatment is terrific, the neck has been incredibly stable, and the factory pickup modeling is excellent. Seems like Larry Carlton himself proved you can replicate a great old guitar pretty easily, and with better noise, more durable wood, electronics and bridge.

Amp modeling is also extraordinary. Guthrie Govan moved over to an advanced digital modeler a few years ago, and while it ostensibly was for touring weight, I defy one to isolate a tonal difference.

 

[mpw]

Yup. And some makers have even become expert at mass-producing instruments with the feel of a well-used guitar. I recently bought a Sire (T7tm) and I’m shocked at the quality. I had it plekked, but it barely touched the frets. The roll-off/fret—end treatment is terrific, the neck has been incredibly stable, and the factory pickup modeling is excellent. Seems like Larry Carlton himself proved you can replicate a great old guitar pretty easily, and with better noise, more durable wood, electronics and bridge.

Amp modeling is also extraordinary. Guthrie Govan moved over to an advanced digital modeler a few years ago, and while it ostensibly was for touring weight, I defy one to isolate a tonal difference.

Nothing beats a tube amp as most studio musicians use them and rarely if ever consider using a modeling amp on a recording session. Imagine all the great guitarist from 60's and 70's recording on digital modeling amps vs. the sonic wonders of their tube amps. would those great records from past have had the same impact? I do have a Fender 65 deluxe re-issue and a 90's Fender American strat.

 

[wadude]

Quilter has a 1x12 combo that many of my tube loving guitar playing friends have moved into. One said, “I’ll probably never buy another Fender.”

Edit: I think it’s the now discontinued MicroPro Mach 2 that folks seem to like.

 

[Mart68]

Yes, I love my classic 97 manual BMW 318is with no screen, no digital display, no start/stop. No one cares about my car except myself very little prestige from the outside world a relic from the past.

You're kidding right? That's a really cool car. A classic. Plenty of petrolheads will stop to take a second look (assuming it isn't falling apart with rust ).

 

[mpw]

You're kidding right? That's a really cool car. A classic. Plenty of petrolheads will stop to take a second look (assuming it isn't falling apart with rust ).

Only classic type people love the car. No rust, runs great, 220k on it, needs a new paint job as the clear coating is starting to pile off from the hot sun here down south. I have driven the 318is from Raleigh to Tuscon 3 times, Florida many times no problem at all. All my friends have modern cars and chuckle at me for still driving my 'outdated car !

 

[ahofer]

Nothing beats a tube amp as most studio musicians use them and rarely if ever consider using a modeling amp on a recording session. Imagine all the great guitarist from 60's and 70's recording on digital modeling amps vs. the sonic wonders of their tube amps. would those great records from past have had the same impact? I do have a Fender 65 deluxe re-issue and a 90's Fender American strat.

I’ve heard conflicting reports on that. Others have told me that modelers straight to the board are very common.

But I can imagine it being true. You can “play” a familiar tube amp. I have less experience with modelers, but there reaction function to picking, volume settings, etc, would seem to be more limited.

 

[mpw]

I’ve heard conflicting reports on that. Others have told me that modelers straight to the board are very common.

But I can imagine it being true. You can “play” a familiar tube amp. I have less experience with modelers, but there reaction function to picking, volume settings, etc, would seem to be more limited.

Watch Tom Bokovac's YT (Homscholin) channel he gives many tours of well known Nashville studios all the players use vintage guitars electric and acoustic and vintage tube amps. Bokovac is one of the top session players in Nashville having recorded with all the big names.

 

[krabapple]

Wait, telling others that spending their own money on luxury goods is snobbery and they are doing so for ego is a criticism?

Does that word bother you? Call it just, like, an opinion, maaan, if you like,

"How egotistical of you to spend $85k on a BMW, when you can buy a used Toyota Corolla for $15k. You brought that BMW just to be snobby to me and to look down on me."

I don't know, that does not sound like a criticism to me. It sounds like someone if butting into other people's business because they are . . .maybe. . .I don't know. . .envy or lack of self confidence?

Yeah, you don't know. You got that right.

 

[krabapple]

Nothing beats a tube amp as most studio musicians use them and rarely if ever consider using a modeling amp on a recording session.

Says who? Most studio musicans use a variety of gear....sometimes even what the engineer/producer tells them to. Whatever it takes to get 'the sound'

Ditto for live performance.

And again, why are we talking about electric instrument amps, which no one would call 'hi fi'?

Imagine all the great guitarist from 60's and 70's recording on digital modeling amps vs. the sonic wonders of their tube amps. would those great records from past have had the same impact?

Quite possibly. Tube amp sound isn't supernatural, it's not beyond the ken of modern science or technology..

I do have a Fender 65 deluxe re-issue and a 90's Fender American strat.

Of course you do.

Let's get back to audio snobbery, as in home audio reproduction gear snobbery. Not jamming along with Creedence gear snobbery.

 

[PristineSound]

Does that word bother you? Call it just, like, an opinion, maaan, if you like,


Yeah, you don't know. You got that right.

Hey don't be so upset. I'm just trying to figure out why some people are so mad about other people spending their own money.

 

[krabapple]

Hey don't be so upset. I'm just trying to figure out why some people are so mad about other people spending their own money.

First you think jeering at audio jewelry means being riven with envy, then you think I'm upset.

You just aren't very good at this, are you?

 

[PristineSound]

First you think jeering at audio jewelry means being riven with envy, then you think I'm upset.

You just aren't very good at this, are you?

Geesh, a bit confrontational, no?

If you're this confrontational being asked why you are policing what other people buy; I can't imagine to what extreme you will go if I was actually rich and I was buying $5k DACs and $100k cars.

Take it easy, it doesn't have to be like this!

 

[Newman]

....and again. Round and round he goes. Projection central.

 

[Axo1989]

First you think jeering at audio jewelry means being riven with envy, then you think I'm upset.

You just aren't very good at this, are you?

I’m not going to do more than glance at the other side of the exchange, but you’ll be basically taking on Pristine’s libertarianism. Being along the lines of ‘what a man does with his money, his wimmin and his chillun is his business, not the gubmint’s and not youse’. No end to the amusement practically …

 

[MattHooper]

If you're this confrontational being asked why you are policing what other people buy; I can't imagine to what extreme you will go if I was actually rich and I was buying $5k DACs and $100k cars.

Let’s not be disingenuous.

You’re not simply asking a question; you’re clearly insinuating some people on this thread have “envy or lack of self confidence” as a motivation.

If you don’t understand why people would push back on this then you need some more people skills.

If you do understand, but you’re still doing it, then it looks more like trolling.

(Not to mention, I don’t see anybody here policing what other people buy - giving a personal opinion on something being overpriced is not policing what other people buy)

 

[PristineSound]

Let’s not be disingenuous.

You’re not simply asking a question; you’re clearly insinuating some people on this thread have “envy or lack of self confidence” as a motivation.

There is no insinuation, I am straight out saying it.

If someone goes around having the opinion that everyone who is buying expensive luxury goods is doing it to be snobby or to show off, then it is my opinion that they either have some self-esteem issues or are simply envious. One opinion vs. another.

I've been expressing my opinion like 30 to pages back.

If you don’t understand why people would push back on this then you need some more people skills.

From what I have seen, I also saw plenty of people pushing back on the idea/claim if someone is buying expensive luxury good, they are doing it for snobbery and ego reasons.

If you do understand, but you’re still doing it, then it looks more like trolling.

I think you are setting the stage to report me, because you don't like the fact the I won't yield to your beliefs and opinions.

(Not to mention, I don’t see anybody here policing what other people buy)

Again, you came this this thread late, I encourage you to go read the entire thread. Plenty of hate for "rich" people buying "rich people things."

 

[mpw]

Anyone can buy whatever they want luxury or not. The hobby of audio is usually buying things that are on the expensive side that others would not consider. Being a snob is someone that thinks they are superior to someone else because they have more then you and look down on you as inferior to them like:

"I have this expensive amp paid 25k for it and you have this piddly little amp that sucks" or "I am an audiophile, I surely know more about sound then you so learn more about audio before you question my knowledge" or "I am a scientist I can measure any audio component how dare you question my authority on a piece of audio equipment, science knows best learn about it then talk to me about audio you fool" . This can scenario can be applied to watches, cameras, cars, boats, etc. Snobs are total bores.

 

[prerich]

Not everyone is a snob...my son in-law could afford McIntosh, I own McIntosh gear, but I recommend Buckeye amps to him for his Kef R11's. That's a big swing for me as I like audio jewelry, and ...I'm a Michigan fan! So yeah, not everyone is a snob... there's great expensive gear, great inexpensive gear, I've owned both, I like whatever I like.‍

 

[PristineSound]

Anyone can buy whatever they want luxury or not. The hobby of audio is usually buying things that are on the expensive side that others would not consider. Being a snob is someone that thinks they are superior to someone else because they have more then you and look down on you as inferior to them like:

"I have this expensive amp paid 25k for it and you have this piddly little amp that sucks" or "I am an audiophile, I surely know more about sound then you so learn more about audio before you question my knowledge" or "I am a scientist I can measure any audio component how dare you question my authority on a piece of audio equipment, science knows best learn about it then talk to me about audio you fool" . This can scenario can be applied to watches, cameras, cars, boats, etc. Snobs are total bores.

Not everyone is a snob...my son in-law could afford McIntosh, I own McIntosh gear, but I recommend Buckeye amps to him for his Kef R11's. That's a big swing for me as I like audio jewelry, and ...I'm a Michigan fan! So yeah, not everyone is a snob... there's great expensive gear, great inexpensive gear, I've owned both, I like whatever I like.‍

Thanks for chiming in and pushing back gents.

Unfortunately, this topic dabbles into social structures and what not. As such there are some people getting emotionally charged; with such emotions, I am getting a bad feeling they are setting the stage to report people who do not subscribe to their utopian social ideal and opinion as punishment. One person has claimed that I don't have "people skills" because I refused to yield to some "pushing back" for not agreeing with their opinion and I have the audacity to have my own.

Thanks again for fearlessly expressing your opinion, it may have saved me from being reported frivolously.

 

[mpw]

Thanks for chiming in and pushing back gents.

Unfortunately, this topic dabbles into social structures and what not. As such there are some people getting emotionally charged; with such emotions, I am getting a bad feeling they are setting the stage to report people who do not subscribe to their utopian social ideal and opinion as punishment. One person has claimed that I don't have "people skills" because I refused to yield to some "pushing back" for not agreeing with their opinion and I have the audacity to have my own.

Thanks again for fearlessly expressing your opinion, it may have saved me from being reported frivolously.

no one is going to report you to "The Authority" You are Ok PristineSound !