Snobbery in Hi-Fi. Why are people so stupid and turn their noses up at gear costing much less which is just as good?

[BlueTunes]

Ok, the moral dimension escapes me. Is it Catholic guilt, Protestant shame—I can't always remember?

Speak for yourself though. My audio purchases are few in number. I haven't bought 'far too much' overpriced stuff, nor selected exclusively lowest-cost stuff.

I'll likely pay a premium for industrial design, aesthetics/haptics and UI/UX where applicable because I value those things. So there's still a cost-effectiveness evaluation but not limited entirely to the sonics. There's also the possibility that the vendor will be around and support the gear in a decade or three to consider. And so on.

Now all that could be considered snobbery by some definition, but argumentum ad lazarum is simply reverse-snobbery, a virtue signal of its own.

I don't think you are the point the OP is making tbh.

The OP isn't about "premium" stuff that's well built, well designed and fits into a reasonable cost-benefit curve.
I see the OP is more about equipment that's luxury for it's own sake.

 

[Ambient384]

I love how Etymotic ER4SR/ER2SE + Fiio K11 + LAME MP3 at V0 & 320kbps.

- With LAME MP3 I just use "--allshort" at V0 which fixes the pre-echo/smearing issue MP3 has. Still view this fix could be added by telling the encoder to scan the track In more detail to see If It needs 50 ~ 100% short blocks.

- Ety ER4SR with EQ(6db 105Hz LS, +2db at 840Hz, -2db 1.6KHz, 4db 5.8KHz HS) Is amazing what Etymotic got out of a Single BA config. Do kinda wish they kept 2 pin connection over MMCX.

- Fiio K11 at high gain(vol 40%) I can safely do 10db Low shelf on my ER4SR's & get drunk(Loudness drops by 45%) without needing to do 68% volume on mid gain.

 

[PristineSound]

Salesmen love suckers like you

 

[Groove01]

I don't think you are the point the OP is making tbh.

The OP isn't about "premium" stuff that's well built, well designed and fits into a reasonable cost-benefit curve.
I see the OP is more about equipment that's luxury for its own sake.

I would counter that OP is absolutely including premium stuff that’s well build, well designed, and into the reasonable cost-benefit curve.

In fact, he’s doubled down on it - lol.

 

[PristineSound]

Because they are guilty.

Not sure what members on this thread are guilty of exactly. Some of us buy expensive HiFi equipment, because we fancy it and we can. Not sure what guilt anyone of us are feeling; in fact, I think most of us are proud of it.

Here is a picture of my Ascend Acoustics ELX RAAL outfitted with Isoacoustics Gaia II, I am proud that I got it before the price hike.

Here is a picture of my Benchmark AHB2 that drives the Ascend, got it on the use market about two years ago and now the price has increased by $400, pretty glad I got it when I did.

Here is a picture of my Yamaha A-S2200, SINAD most likely measures worse than a Fosi, but why would I want a cheapo Fosi when it's one fart away from flying out the window, when I can have this 50 lbs. beast with the UV meters?

No guilt here, just beaming pride and joy.

 

[prerich]

Yet - you don’t see me telling others:

they shouldn’t buy a Mercedes b/c a Peugeot is just as good, in fact better in every way(because it costs less).

Or - how much property is sufficient and any more is just showing off

Or - how any power tool is equal to the lowest cost tool and anyone who uses DeWalt or Makita vs Ryobi is obviously showing off

Or - how anyone who buys any piece of audio gear above the cost point of the lowest cost well testing disposable option is clearly a badge snob.

Did I miss anything..?

You got me, clearly MY self importance is off the charts - lol.

Yeah you missed C.Z. Vs _lock

 

[PristineSound]

This is very interesting, this thread reminded me of a thread I started almost a year ago. This thread got a few people like the OP upset, then it quickly got shut down.

After seeing the OP's responses, I think this topic is deeper than some people buying expensive luxury goods, there seems to be a hidden resentment on social injustice of the have's and have-not's.

 

[JiiPee]

Calling me a HiFi Snob is simply wrong and I can prove it scientifically by applying mathematics. It shows that my spending on HiFi equipment is insignificant compared to the amount I have spent on premium cars (including Mercedes), premium watches, and premium alcoholic beverages.

No any feelings of guilt here. I have earned my money by legal means and in my opinion I'm entitled to spend it the way I see fit. No any "delusions of grandeur" either. At least I don't believe myself to be such ethically and cognitively superior person that I would be qualified to tell others how they should spend their money.

 

[Mart68]

Not sure why we got onto guilt but seems to me the thrust of the o/p is people who own expensive kit looking down on those who don't.

Not the moral problem of whether it's ethically acceptable or not (I mean really, who cares about that?).

Although I do own some expensive equipment I always advise people that you don't need to spend that much for the same sound quality.

Being snobby about gear is pretty rare on all forums. The only time I recall seeing it is the 'Your system not high-end enough to reveal differences' and 'You only claim expensive kit sounds no better because you can't afford it' types.

 

[ahofer]

Calling me a HiFi Snob is simply wrong and I can prove it scientifically by applying mathematics. It shows that my spending on HiFi equipment is insignificant compared to the amount I have spent on premium cars (including Mercedes), premium watches, and premium alcoholic beverages.

Wait, what? Since when is relative spending an index of snobbery? Or did I miss the joke?

 

[Westsounds]

I would counter that OP is absolutely including premium stuff that’s well build, well designed, and into the reasonable cost-benefit curve.

In fact, he’s doubled down on it - lol.

No

View attachment 528257

If you subscribe to Audio Science Review, or have any faith in this site at all, or what it advocates. There is no one in their right mind who would buy a DAVE DAC after that review Amir gave it, other than a complete subjectivist. And those people would be better suited to discuss that on other forums. I don’t understand why people would even attempt to defend it. If you do, you are a ‘fool and their money’ who are easily parted and quite frankly stupid. If you are buying it because you like hi-fi and subjective bling, well great, congratulations, you are in the top percentage of society who has won at the money game in life and can afford to lose it. But it is not any better than the decent one your blue collar brethren has, so you are not magically hearing something they are not.

 

[Mart68]

There is no one in their right mind who would buy a DAVE DAC after that review Amir gave it, other than a complete subjectivist.

Or someone who just likes the build quality and cosmetic appearance but who accepts its sound quality is no better than a Topping E30?

Admittedly there's probably not many people who buy it for that reason, but is that not a valid reason for buying one?

I don’t understand why people would even attempt to defend it.

I don't think people are defending what you think they're defending.

 

[Westsounds]

Or someone who just likes the build quality and cosmetic appearance but who accepts its sound quality is no better than a Topping E30?

Admittedly there's probably not many people who buy it for that reason, but is that not a valid reason for buying one?

I don't think people are defending what you think they're defending.

As you say, that is not a valid reason for buying it.

They are not defending Chords DAVE no, but insert the blank, and justify whatever you’ve bought. It doesn’t need to be a 10 grand DAC, it’s whatever. I thought that’s what this site's ethos was all about. Calling out the subjectivism.

 

[Westsounds]

And they are buying it because they think it performs better. It, they, fill in the blank, just doesn't.

 

[Mart68]

As you say, that is not a valid reason for buying it.

I'm saying that is a valid reason for buying it. If I needed a DAC and I liked how it looks (I don't on either count) I might buy one despite being under no illusions that it will sound any better than any other DAC.

 

[PristineSound]

After seeing the OP's responses, I think this topic is deeper than some people buying expensive luxury goods, there seems to be a hidden resentment on social injustice of the have's and have-not's.

I think you confirmed my suspicion above on the underlying, subconscious reason why you started this thread:

If you are buying it because you like hi-fi and subjective bling, well great, congratulations, you are in the top percentage of society who has won at the money game in life and can afford to lose it. But it is not any better than the decent one your blue collar brethren has, so you are not magically hearing something they are not.

OP, first, I don't own nor do I aspire to own any of these Chord brand products.

But let's work on your self-esteem and self-worth. In life, there are always people with more than you. . .AND people with less than you. For those who have more than you, you don't know the circumstances of how they got there. You don't know what they sacrificed, you don't know how hard they worked and you don't know what risks they took. You don't know how many times they failed and nearly lost it all before they tried again and made it.

If you live your life with such resentment and spite, you won't get to enjoy what you have. You drive a car that you enjoy, you own great performing HiFi audio equipment that would not have been affordable just 10 years ago.

I thought that’s what this site's ethos was all about. Calling out the subjectivism.

This site is not about calling out subjectivism, it's about promoting scientific and data driven objectivism. And you are not calling out subjectivism, you are venting about what you believe to be excessive spending, something that you won't do for whatever reason.

Speaking of this site, did you know our host, Amir, owns the Revel Salon2, MSRP $20k? Did you know that he owned a pair of Mark Levison monoblocks?

 

[ahofer]

Or someone who just likes the build quality and cosmetic appearance but who accepts its sound quality is no better than a Topping E30?

Admittedly there's probably not many people who buy it for that reason, but is that not a valid reason for buying one?

I don't think people are defending what you think they're defending.

Certainly I would defend their right to buy it for any reason, even if they want components that begin with "D".

But it seems like most owners, if not all, will defend/justify it on audible audio quality. Certainly the few who have defended Chord products here.

I'm happy to be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone say "sure I own a ($10k DAC) and I bought it because I like the construction/whatever". Further down the cost stack, perhaps. I own an RME, and I'm sure I couldn't tell it from many cheaper units, but I like the Loudness feature and built in EQ (no Wiims at the time I bought it).

 

[Groove01]

I don’t understand why people would even attempt to defend it.

I don’t think anyone is defending $30k components (that $ threshold is arbitrary)

If you do, you are a ‘fool and their money’ who are easily parted and quite frankly stupid.

This ^^ is where I think folks are taking issue, particularly when it goes well beyond the ridiculously expensive.

Specifically projecting what you determine as the value / cost benefit ratio and anything beyond is snobbery.

e.g:

oh no, we have a tool snob in our presence

 

[Westsounds]

I'm saying that is a valid reason for buying it. If I needed a DAC and I liked how it looks (I don't on either count) I might buy one despite being under no illusions that it will sound any better than any other DAC.

But people do buy under that illusion that's the point, I'm glad you are not under that illusion, you obviously know better. But I'm telling you I know individuals who have bought it believing it is superior, and you will not convince them otherwise.

You can’t blame anyone for buying anything that they like the look of, even if it is an insane choice, people buy all sorts of objects, and will literally buy anything money can buy. The more money they have doesn’t improve their judgement it just means they have more to waste.

 

[Mart68]

I'm happy to be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone say "sure I own a ($10k DAC) and I bought it because I like the construction/whatever". Further down the cost stack, perhaps.

$10K is extreme but I think it highly likely there are people who have spent that or more on electronics just because they liked how it looks. Just not many and even fewer might post about it on hi-fi forums. I can recall a post on another forum where someone bought an entire McIntosh system just for the look. Maybe a $100K spend or more. It did look pretty cool.