Snake Oil Department, Top This

[DaveWKC]

This is how I picture those crazy power cables being plugged in to a device:

 

[IowAudio]

I bet Danny over at GR Research can explain the pseudo science behind these phenomenal power cables. Video #4 came out today and I still haven't seen any real science. Basically you need Dannys system to hear the difference I guess.

 

[DonH56]

Right? It's like has anyone who buys these esoteric power cables actually ever seen the romex in their house? or understand the power grid? Or ever taken the cover off their equipment and looked at the tiny little wires in the device itself?

Of course not, that's the point. When marketing supplants science and engineering with belief, they've won, and a bit of perception bias guided by the prices do the rest for the consumers.

"But, it's the first wire the <component> sees, so it's the most important!"

Current is a loop...

 

[Balle Clorin]

This is how I picture those crazy power cables being plugged in to a device:
View attachment 114914

A man wirh silikone?

 

[DaveWKC]

I bet Danny over at GR Research can explain the pseudo science behind these phenomenal power cables. Video #4 came out today and I still haven't seen any real science. Basically you need Dannys system to hear the difference I guess.

Well, and that's part of the behavior that really chaps my hide. It becomes a shaming session like that review for that $649 cable that really should (and probably does) cost $5. the whole, "Well, you can't hear it because your system doesn't cost enough" or "Does not resolve enough". I aways imagine them sticking their fingers in their ears while spinning around in circles when they say that. It's like the Royal Society telling Newton that he was wrong about his theories because his apple wasn't as juicy as theirs.

 

[Gregss]

Hello All,

Sadly, there has always been those who can con their way to get others to part with their money. Nothing new, consider the old statement "a fool and his money are soon parted" or " there is a sucker born every minute". Con artists have even sold bridges. We can try to educate those who are willing to listen, but far too many have no interest in learning and seem to enjoy being taken. Just the way the world is.

 

[Long Audio Beard]

my bet is on hickory to become scare now...

Audio Hickory Cube $67

"...hickory has the effect which promotes audio reproduced sound to the sound quality which was organic and flooded a vivid uplifting feeling. The sound and the feel of a material natural and realistic in natural beeswax completion are achieved."

in stock! lol

 

[krabapple]

At some point performance is good enough for the average Joe.
Its like buying a fancy sports car or a luxury watch.
People who buy Rolex don't care if Casio F-91W is objectively better.

Then 'performance' isn't really the metric there. 'Performative consumption' is.

 

[Objectivist01]

I am wondering how do the high end speakers like Wilson audio magico rethm and all measure

 

[FrantzM]

I am wondering how do the high end speakers like Wilson audio magico rethm and all measure

FWIW..
Copied from Stereophile

I would suggest to ignore the response in the bass from 150 Hz down ... in all Stereophile measurements...


Wilson Audio Alexx MSRP $109,000/pair

Wilson Audio Sabrina $17,000/pair

Magico S5 MKii

Seems to be a bit better...

Now for comparisons purposes:

Dutch and Dutch 8C ($14,000/pair) complete active speakers, you only need a source copied from Stereophile's web site..
From the Stereophile article

The response is superbly flat, remaining within ±1.4dB limits from 200Hz to 15kHz

Genelec 8351 ($8,000/pair) copied from Audio Xpress copied website
Active speaker with its own amplifers.. You only need a source...

If such copies are not allowed please feel free to delete ...

 

[rdenney]

Then 'performance' isn't really the metric there. 'Performative consumption' is.

Perhaps. But there are many nominally functional things in this world that are sold on the basis of craft as much or more as on the basis of function.

It's hard to imagine that the aesthetics of a 2"-diameter power cord with a braided plastic sheath and heat-shrink sleeves on the ends provides that level of craft, but de gustibus non est disputandum.

I doubt that many who own a Rolex argue that it keeps time better than a G-shock, but they do argue that it is ultimately more durable, and certainly more beautifully made. They also know that a Rolex will signal success by their measure better than a Casio, which some will observe down a long, curled-up nose, but which drives many more acquisition decisions than even the most dedicated anti-snob will care to admit. They will NOT argue to the death that a Rolex is better at keeping time from one day to the next, or that it's cheaper in the long run, or that appreciating it requires special cognitive powers. Relative to the industry, a Rolex is expensive but not absurdly so for those who want a finely made mechanical watch that will be worth maintaining for the rest of one's life and probably that of their kids--a claim not made by most Casio owners. And the technical qualities of a Rolex are not snake oil. The features that Rolex sells as part of their watches (Breguet overcoil, special spring material, case waterproofing, etc.) are functionally effective, even if other watches provide different solutions that work just as well. But Rolex is, indeed, one of the most consistently accurate mechanical watches made, which is widely admired in the watch industry in light of their substantial production volume and considerable hand-work.

Rick "not a Rolex owner" Denney

 

[Long Audio Beard]

I give you the:

R8 Lossless Portable Player MQA 16x DLNA Airplay LDAC - $6,758.99

"4 ELNA SILMIC II audio capacitors utilizing natural silk as the dialectric. 3rd order THD under -120db. Literally silky highs."

 

[Thomas_A]

The stuff made or sold by Patrick82, Cocounut audio, cables or his mineral stones for audio is probably the strangest I’ve ever seen, by far. Never understood if the guy was in a some kind of social experiment since he apparently gave away most of his stuff for free although the prices were extreme.

 

[Wes]

I give you the:

R8 Lossless Portable Player MQA 16x DLNA Airplay LDAC - $6,758.99

"4 ELNA SILMIC II audio capacitors utilizing natural silk as the dialectric. 3rd order THD under -120db. Literally silky highs."

sure ... natural silk but is the silk organic??

also, how were the silk worms treated? are they happy? cage-free?

I'd send Colin the Chicken over there to check on their welfare, but he might eat them.

 

[mhardy6647]

free-range silkworms...

 

[headshake]

Basically you need Dannys system to hear the difference I guess.

Kinda reminds me of:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

Danny keeps kicking the football instead of offering measurements using real cables and mics. Instead, he talks about how he can only hear things on a $$$ system setup with $$$ crap that he sells. Why doesn't he just say he has superpowers and get it over with? Oh, because he wants "you" to believe in his message. He wants everyone to be a Danny with giant cables that do things that he can hear but cannot measure.

The first clue that someone is an idiot is they divide the world up and offer a scapegoat. Danny is trying blame/insult people who want scientific evidence. That is some bold foolishness right there. He seems like a reasonable guy other than the snake oil. I wish he would stop doubling down on the stupidity.

 

[AMPaul]

Right? It's like has anyone who buys these esoteric power cables actually ever seen the romex in their house? or understand the power grid? Or ever taken the cover off their equipment and looked at the tiny little wires in the device itself?

So much BS and snake oil in one place this brand and all the marketing crap on their website is criminal. They offer a $2,500 power cable that has been cryogenically frozen - "Deep Cryogenic Treatment to -300F Cryogenic processing alters materials at the molecular level. This permanent, irreversible process releases residual stresses, and alleviates the negative effects of crystalline grain boundaries in copper and brass. Cryogenic treatment effects a measurable reduction in the cord's resistively for improved current flow. The result is less distortion, which impacts all performance attributes, but particularly resolution." Wow!!! Get yours today!!! https://www.essentialsound.com/essence-power-cord.htm

As a materials scientist with a phd in nanomaterials and material morphology, and over 12 years experience in making new materials i would like to offer my services to these snake oil dealers. So, (similar to quenching in forging whatever), in order to relieve residual strain and grain boundary defects one actually has to treat the material at HIGH TEMPERATURE to promote atomic mobility within the lattice to "heal" defects. So in fact one would have to Pretty much put these wires in an oven (close to melting temperature) and then quickly cool them down to Room temperature. The cryogenic treatment does exactly NOTHING. the funny fact is that if one did this for some thin wires (2mm diameter) that would turn them to some really springy wires that one would have trouble routing them around stuff....hmmmm those would make really nice RF antennas for Danny.

 

[rdenney]

Kinda reminds me of:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

Danny keeps kicking the football instead of offering measurements using real cables and mics. Instead, he talks about how he can only hear things on a $$$ system setup with $$$ crap that he sells. Why doesn't he just say he has superpowers and get it over with? Oh, because he wants "you" to believe in his message. He wants everyone to be a Danny with giant cables that do things that he can hear but cannot measure.

The first clue that someone is an idiot is they divide the world up and offer a scapegoat. Danny is trying blame/insult people who want scientific evidence. That is some bold foolishness right there. He seems like a reasonable guy other than the snake oil. I wish he would stop doubling down on the stupidity.

I’d be happy if he could demonstrate that HE is able to hear the difference without knowing what he’s listening to. If the perception is not repeatable, then arguing about measurements is a waste of time.

Rick “even superpowers have to be demonstrated” Denney

 

[Putter]

Well, and that's part of the behavior that really chaps my hide. It becomes a shaming session like that review for that $649 cable that really should (and probably does) cost $5. the whole, "Well, you can't hear it because your system doesn't cost enough" or "Does not resolve enough". I aways imagine them sticking their fingers in their ears while spinning around in circles when they say that. It's like the Royal Society telling Newton that he was wrong about his theories because his apple wasn't as juicy as theirs.

It's actually worse than that. You need 'golden ears' to hear it. I wonder if 'golden instruments' would be able to measure it.

 

[DaveWKC]

It's actually worse than that. You need 'golden ears' to hear it. I wonder if 'golden instruments' would be able to measure it.

Odd that my analyzer doesn't have that type of input. It only seems to have inputs that actually exist