Snake Oil Department, Top This

[sq225917]

The problem is I actually followed the link in my regular web browser, so now I’m gonna see ads the $12,000 rebottlings of DeOxit forever.

Rick “who knows better” Denney

Just click on those ads Rick, everyone costs them money...

 

[SIY]

No, but some cable riser manufacturer is claiming floors emit an energy field that your cable needs protecting from... which is just as imaginary as N-rays.

When Charley Hansen waxed poetic about the absolute need for the riser material to be myrtle, I asked him about whether that was to block N-rays. His reaction was delightfully obscene and personal, truly creative and entertaining, as anyone who knew him might imagine.

 

[rdenney]

X-rays are real, so surely all the A through W rays must also be real. What will they do if more rays are discovered after Z?

Kind of an ontological beauty to that argument.

Rick “we thought of them, so they must exist” Denney

 

[KellenVancouver]

I’ll use the best for my kettle since it will obviously make my tea taste better

Classic!

 

[Galliardist]

Don't have the wires too high off the floor, because the cosmic rays will then get them.

Here’s an idea: adjustable height risers. Made of an expensive material for some reason involving nano, Cable Height Tuning allows your cables to reach their maximum environmental performance, And of course each mm adjustment takes 100 hours to settle, requires a different distance from the front wall, etc. Claim that a different height is optimal for each type of cable, sit back and watch the madness happen…

 

[noiseangel]

On

Question - has anyone tried it or is it just to absurd in theory to actually buy a bottle and give it an unbiased listen.

No longer for sale mate.

 

[egellings]

Some silly claims can just be summarily dismissed without experimentation. No point in say, dropping an object and seeing if it falls or not. As for the cables, if different ones actually do sound different, then I say you should check that they are not making the amplifier misbehave in some way, say due to excessive capacitance causing borderline instability. With cables, it's simply R, L and C. Once those are attended to, you're done. There's no magic.

 

[goryu]

Snake Oil Department, Top This:

Anything from the mouth of Ric "the tweaker" Schultz...​

 

[Descartes]

But when does the hammer hit? Bruce Brisson is still around after decades in the biz, still selling the ludicrous MIT cable. Synergistic Research was a sick joke when they started out, and now they sell high-priced crap, only more of it and based on ever more insane

Their is a sucker born every day!

 

[radix]

Some silly claims can just be summarily dismissed without experimentation. No point in say, dropping an object and seeing if it falls or not. As for the cables, if different ones actually do sound different, then I say you should check that they are not making the amplifier misbehave in some way, say due to excessive capacitance causing borderline instability. With cables, it's simply R, L and C. Once those are attended to, you're done. There's no magic.

But there's quantum tunneling, surface conduction, magnetic fields from the moon, gravitons, and the galactic spin!

And you can have cables for surrounds, height, and rear speakers, it's not all LCR speakers! (sorry, couldn't resist that one)

 

[egellings]

He's so tubular! What's not to like?

 

[Mart68]

'Here's some more trash for ya'

Fuse tuning chips:

Akiko Audio - Akiko Audio Fuse Tuning Chip English

This Chip has been especially developed to be applied to all sorts of fuses. The fuse must not be underestimated: all electricity that eventually produces music goes through the fuse first. One chip per fuse is enough. We offer them in two sizes: 5mm and 9mm.

www.akikoaudio.com

 

[StuartC]

Does no one sell some sort of air treatment to make the sound in your listening area better? Surely someone has some trumped up BS for sale along these lines?

 

[mansr]

Does no one sell some sort of air treatment to make the sound in your listening area better? Surely someone has some trumped up BS for sale along these lines?

This comes close: https://us.kef.com/blog/kef-hydro-blaster-improved-wireless-audio-experience-in-a-can

 

[Killingbeans]

Does no one sell some sort of air treatment to make the sound in your listening area better? Surely someone has some trumped up BS for sale along these lines?

Not quite what you're descibing, but Synergistic Research makes all kinds of nonsense: https://www.synergisticresearch.com/acoustics/atmosphere-infinity/

 

[SchwarzeWolke]

Not quite what you're descibing, but Synergistic Research makes all kinds of nonsense: https://www.synergisticresearch.com/acoustics/atmosphere-infinity/

Wtf?
The company who is selling this can't be serious...

 

[Somafunk]

Wtf?
The company who is selling this can't be serious...

The one maxim that can be relied upon, especially after the shenanigans of the previous couple of years is “never underestimate stupidity”

 

[Terry Stahly]

(My humble opinion and a lengthy explanation follows, this is not an attack or provocation of any form)

TL/DR: No and no. Price can be justified for appearance/prestige if that is what you desire. For boutique products (probably six figures or more), you pay for their reinvent-the-wheel engineering, likely at the cost of objective performance compared to mainstream products, rarity, and marketing or overengineering to ensure an extremely esoteric (read niche) product can turn a profit. If that is what you want and are happy with, then (IMO) there is little room for criticism.

No, I don't think spending so much on anything is foolish so long as it doesn't put you in financial jeopardy (ie. you can afford to do so comfortably), the purchase was thought out (ie. not an impulse purchase), and there is some justification in doing so.

I think justifying the purchase of an expensive piece of equipment, even if it, on paper, is objectively worse, can be broken down into a few factors:

- Appearance/prestige, even in lieu of performance/practicality - I think, ultimately, that a speaker is a piece of furniture. It sits, takes up space, and serves a function. Good looks are desirable in furniture. In the case of these speakers, that includes the complex geometry and exotic materials utilized in the construction of the speaker. The curved design and higher quality materials used on the Revel speakers cost more to produce than a box that may be found on the average three figure floorstander. The glossy finish on the front and the complex stand also cost more and are more complex than a simple box on cheaper designs.
Think McIntosh vs a plain metal box class d amp that does its job. the McIntosh unit likely costs close to 10 times as much and the latter. What are you paying for? The cosmetic appeal, the brand prestige, and those iconic blue meters, despite the measurements on this forum embarrassing the McIntosh unit so hard its meters could blush red with embarrassment .

- (over)engineering - boutique electronics that start from scratch (read reinvent the wheel) and discrete r2r dacs come to mind. These products accomplish what mass market electronics do, and perhaps perform worse than them, while costing magnitudes more than comparable products. Your money goes to the (rather impressive) engineering feat/extra work involved with making these products functional and perhaps comparable to mass market products. They then have to distinguish themselves through various means, such as unconventional construction or definitely-not-biased reviews, which is also funded by your hard-earned $$$.

The aforementioned analogies involving watches and cars also fall under these principles.

For watches, you can compare the costs involved with purchasing a two figure quartz watch, a three figure mechanical, and four or more figure mechanical. Two figures gets you a decent performing quartz watch that will keep accurate time (ie. if it deviates more than one second a month every two days it's almost certainly a dud). It may look generic and is most certainly mass produced, but it does it's job. Three figures gets you a functional mechanical watch. It will keep worse time than the quartz, likely deviating up to 20 seconds per day, but you can appreciate the engineering that went into it. Four figures or more will likely get you something from a name brand, with higher accuracy, more refined design and styling, and likely some prestigious branding (Omega, Rolex, etc). Pay prices on the order of a new car and you can get handcrafted, limited run, and esoteric watches. Do any of these watches keep better time than that quartz watch? Very likely not. But they are still desirable due to their style, workmanship, prestige, rarity, and the engineering necessary to create them.

For cars, the average commuter car will have good fuel economy, high reliability, accessible and affordable service, and practical design. They are not speed demons, gas guzzlers, or limited run supercars, but they get the job done. More of your hard-earned cash will get you luxury features such as nicer interior, more power, tuned (read louder) exhaust systems, classier style, or branding associated with prestige (BMW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz). These cars may be less practical (2 seats, less cargo) or use more gas, and accomplish the same basic job of commuting and traveling, but now in comfort and luxury. Go up more or less one magnitude and you find exotic cars with esoteric styling with marketing focused on design/exclusivity, excessive and overengineered powertrains, and limited production. The upcoming Koenigsegg Gemera comes to mind and serves as a comparison to boutique electronics in audio. The Gemera has camless piston engine, the first of its kind in a "production" automobile afaik, 10x the horsepower of the average commuter car (civics, corollas, and similar sedans for the US), impractical top speeds, a 300-unit production run. The design is unconventional to say the least, but draws attention and IMO looks pretty nice, especially compared to other designs from the same market bracket.

There may be other justifications for the purchase of such esoteric, exotic, and pricey products, but I have listed and explained the main ones in my view.

I also do not believe this splurging on the part of our (dare I say, beloved?) host represents a blatant disregard for science. Sure, there may be better choices based on objective measurements, and perhaps some subjective experience voodoo magic (potentially unexplained) psychoacoustic effects present during listening to different pieces of equipment, but I believe Amir made an educated choice to purchase the various components in his system based on a combination of objective measurements and subjective experiences regarding the sound and aesthetics of each component prior to purchasing.

Of course, only Amir himself can tell us the decision-making process behind his system .

I do not think many people care about what you think or your explanation this is a forum for opinions reviews answers and questions about audio gear. You sir are a perfect example of why forums on any subject are practically a waste of time. You have to sift through all the babble or be well aquatinted enough with the users to know who's to read of not

 

[Sal1950]

Wtf?
The company who is selling this can't be serious...

Oh they're serious alright.
Serious about making a lot of money and taking it all to the bank.
All the while laughing their asses off over how dumb their customers are.
And seriously sitting around a think tank, trying to figure out the next piece of utterly worthless junk they can bring to the audiophool market.
This "hobby" has made us all look like idiots.

 

[StuartC]

Not quite what you're descibing, but Synergistic Research makes all kinds of nonsense: https://www.synergisticresearch.com/acoustics/atmosphere-infinity/

I think you get the prize for finding the most amazingly made up snake oil ever! Mitigation of RF from solar flares..... Amazing.