Yes, I felt that due to his lack of real industry knowledge, he feared saying anything really critical and being seen as deaf listener.
At the price level of these speakers they have to be incredible, right ? LOL
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Snake Oil Department, Top This
- Thread starter Ron Texas
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At the price level of these speakers they have to be incredible, right ? LOL
MatrixS2000
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Your assumption is incorrect. I don’t take any sighted listening experiences as objective - from anyone. Show me the data….including your hearing tests if you want me to believe you.
MatrixS2000
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Can understand that as well. This is why I said we should be crying as we point and laugh.
Sgt. Ear Ache
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If you set up a listening experiment in which a $750,000 pair of speakers was compared to a $5000 pair of speakers of relatively equal physical proportion and power handling and so forth, both pairs being properly arranged in the listening room to a reasonable degree - if you had 100 people come in and listen blind-folded to the two sets of speakers (volume matched of course) and had them pick the "better" sounding pair, I bet the results would be nearly 50/50. I mean assuming they were both reasonably "good" speakers in the sense that neither was applying a thick shmear of weird built in EQ or something.
In other words, I'd argue that there's a good chance you're not only not getting 10 or 15 times the sound quality for your money, but in fact you probably aren't even getting 2 times the sound quality.
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Based on what we've seen of ultra hi-end gear, I'd say there's a good chance the $5000 speaker might actually be preferred in blind testing.
Let's say the 750K speaker is only ten percent better but you have a couple of hundred million in the bank. You might as well get that extra ten percent.
Problem with the ultra high end is it's rarely any better, even speakers. Even the cheaper speaker systems at those shows quite often don't offer good value for money to those (almost everyone) who don't have the unlimited budget. That's before you get on to the 'accessorize' racket, and the complete systems where the speaker cables cost more than the speakers.
DMill
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Even if we assume the astronomical price makes it better. It’s not 10% better. Maybe move a decimal or even two. So 1% better. Or more like .01% better. This is all just conjecture on my part based on the assumption price=quality which has been shown to be wrong so many times. But to your point, if money doesn’t matter, I suppose why not?
How is a speaker designed based on Eulers formula? Thats like saying its designed based on the Pythagoras theory or the formula for the area of a circle.
"Expensive for an audio system, but cheap for a time machine."There's some sweet sweet snake oil in this vid!
From Wikipedia: 'Euler's formula is a mathematical equation that relates complex exponential functions to trigonometric functions, expressed as eix=cosx+isinx, where e is the base of the natural logarithm and i is the imaginary unit. This formula is fundamental in fields like mathematics, physics, and engineering,"
In other words like ohms law, its almost impossible to design anything electrical (thats not just DC) without using Eulers formula, usually implied.
Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
yeah for sure. That's why I said "probably not even 2 times better."
I mean what exactly does "better" even mean? If the $750K setup is doing anything that's actually audible then it should also be measurable and would be able to be quantified and assessed in that way. If it's shown to be throwing out an extra 3dbs from 5K-9K hz then we know what it's "amazing musicality" is actually all about.If someone has millions of dollars kicking around and they want to blow a bunch of it on grossly and needlesly expensive audio gear than more power to them. But that's not a "get out of jail free" card for the people selling the stuff. If it indicated somewhere in their advertising that most of what your $750K was buying you was some real nicely finished wooden boxes and boutique driver components then no problem. But it doesn't. Instead it's all "extra dimensions of musicality" and "revolutionary spacial imaging."
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They sell the sizzle, not the steak - but that's always the case.
For the $750K Magico they probably offer deeper bass and higher clean SPL than most speakers although I've no doubt you could get equivalent performance for a lot less if you know what you're doing and want to put the time in - which is probably not the case with most of the potential customers.
I have actually had a listen to them at a show - partnering equipment was full DCS stack and D'Augustino pre and monoblocs. Music was plinky plonk jazz. Sound was awful with ripping distortion in the top end. Someone suggested the problem was the amps suffering from voltage sag (it was at a show). Seems reasonable. The people demonstrating the system appeared not to notice it.
In reality it's impossible to quantify like that I agree. Assume a situation where a very wealthy person wants some giant speakers for a giant room, he listens to several options, he likes the Magico the best even though they are much more expensive that the others. But since the price is still only a fraction of his wealth, he buys them over the cheaper competition. Why wouldn't he?
At least it will be in some ways different even if not better than other options, so we could say he's buying the difference. The same can't really be said of the electronic components or the cables where the only justifications for spending a fortune would be non-sonic.
Punter
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I've had a skim through the Magico website and they certainly seem to have very well constructed products. As with many of these types of manufacturers, they're catering to the upper end of the market. In a practical sense, this can't be achieved with an average looking product. Lashings of carbon fiber and other "exotic" materials is par for the course. In addition to this, they have some very appealing looking enclosures that are very obviously bespoke.
This example is selling for AU$1,499,999 for the pair. Sadly, all the esoteric materials and other high-spec components that these units are constructed with guarantees that they will sound good to everyone. And herein lies the issue with speakers, regardless of price, they either sound good or maybe "right" to an individual or they don't. Finally is there really enough of anything in these devices to justify the staggering price? Ultimately it doesn't matter as there is a very small market for such things. For a set of these to find a home there first needs to be a wealthy enough customer who then will find the sound of these appealing. Alternatively, the customer has money to burn and just likes the aesthetics.
In some ways I'm glad things like this exist. They may be outrageously overpriced but you can't deny the care and attention that has gone into creating them.
This example is selling for AU$1,499,999 for the pair. Sadly, all the esoteric materials and other high-spec components that these units are constructed with guarantees that they will sound good to everyone. And herein lies the issue with speakers, regardless of price, they either sound good or maybe "right" to an individual or they don't. Finally is there really enough of anything in these devices to justify the staggering price? Ultimately it doesn't matter as there is a very small market for such things. For a set of these to find a home there first needs to be a wealthy enough customer who then will find the sound of these appealing. Alternatively, the customer has money to burn and just likes the aesthetics.
In some ways I'm glad things like this exist. They may be outrageously overpriced but you can't deny the care and attention that has gone into creating them.
fatoldgit
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Well we all know it's obvious why exotic construction/over construction is needed... market/product differentiation.
The target market is rich people who won't accept well braced/designed/great sounding speakers made with say thick solid wood panels that is sold for $750k.... so the manufacturers need to use panels milled from aluminum billet, or layered carbon fibre or some esoteric material like Panzerholz panels and X-Material on the Wilsons.
This is to create the market/product differentiation and provide the scope to charge big dollars. Just like those Taiko music servers...totally pointless over-engineering.
Now when it comes to speakers, we kinda know that the more inert the cabinet the less the coloration but I guess the issue is we don't know at what point in material science your diminishing returns kick in. Is it 25mm aluminum or 45mm aluminum or merely 10mm aluminum. They (the manufacturers) won't say so even if all that was needed was 10mm, they are gonna sell you 25mm cause that means more $$$$ for them....never mind the quality, feel the weight.
Tekton speakers (not super expensive in the scheme of things) use multiple tweeters as their market play:
We have ultra heavy turntables with a built in gyroscopic tilting base *** cause we all know the earths rotation affects turntable audio performance (that's how it's sold...their market/product differentiation). We the end consumer can't prove or disprove if the gyroscopic tilting base is needed but we do know that some rich egotistical dude will need to have one cause it shows he can afford it.
Thus the sale of this ultra expensive gear is predicated on the narcissistic tendencies of rich people.
Peter
*** I guess the closer you are to the equator the more effective the gyroscopic tilting base is?
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Speakers with really fine ‘neutral’ measurements do sound more alike than different in my experience.
Magico have always sounded pretty decent, if they aren’t being used with SETs and if some attention has been paid to the room/speaker interaction.
Years ago Magico were acoustically measuring their large horns at the Munich show.
Keith
Ahmonge
Senior Member
let us not overlook the halo effect of the top of the range, to give prestige to the brand and justify the high prices of the lower ranges.
Sooo much more reasonable lol
Look at this nonsense ..
NORDOST ODIN 2 SPEAKER CABLE, 4 METRE PAIR, EXCELLENT CONDITION! | eBay
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What a deal! You save £18,399.01, buy before it is too late
The review is written in serious way, I hope that dry humor of the Britons or the reviewer is truly clueless.
dedobot
Senior Member
Its not just a cable - its a cable system featuring TSC (Total Signal Control) technology ! Send/receive conductors and other magicks . Also we have the power cord with 7×14 AWG solid-core wires per conductor ! Here I cant hold more the my tears of laugh .
What a deal! You save £18,399.01, buy before it is too late
Its equal to 10sq.mm cable rated 70amps@220V or 15kW
Regrettably not. I had a run in with that reviewer many years ago now when he trotted out the old 'You're just jealous because you can't afford it' line. (I could, but part of the arrogance of these people is they assume that must be the reason you don't spend a fortune on this idiocy).
''if you compare the cable to Odin 2, Valhalla 2 almost sounds ‘broken’. And given V2 already made most other cables sound arch and similarly ‘broken’, Odin 2 makes it all but impossible to listen to lesser cables, even in the context of cheaper audio equipment.''
''All this sounds like pretentious nonsense,''
You nailed it there, Alan.
