Snake Oil Department, Top This

[MatrixS2000]

Whatever it is, how is a cable applying it?

Via a directional fuse….

 

[Punter]

Pretty sure we've done the Ansuz Mainz D-TC Supreme mains cable before. Impressive lumps in it though

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

"Expensive for an audio system, but cheap for a time machine." There's some sweet sweet snake oil in this vid!

 

[Short38]

I too am fascinated. What do they mean by dither? Whatever it is, how is a cable applying it?

No, wait - let me guess.

wibble wibble quantum wibble.

They make be referencing Sid Dither, private eye, of Second City TV fame.

 

[Head_Unit]

I’m pretty sure sure luxury cars have a better paint job than cheaper cars. Not more durable, but shinier. Hand rubbed? Dunno.

The higher price of luxury cars usually reflects some extra labor in the details.

Sometimes but not always true. I worked at an autosound manufacturer, sometimes like oh was it Aston etc would have the same radio as some much cheaper car, because due to small production volumes it was not feasible to make something truly custom. That's why Lamborghini had Alpine radios, not Lamborghini radios. Once you get to like bespoke Rolls-Royces then a lot of hand stuff seems to happen, but at that in-between $100-$200k or whatever I'm not sure that you really get anything terribly special. Less common, yes, but "better" maybe not at all.

 

[TLEDDY]

Form follows function : they are designed to bite you in the ass.

MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY- - - -

 

[TLEDDY]

MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY- - - -

MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY- - - -MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY- - - -MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY…MUST BUY- - - -

 

[AdrianusG]

Sometimes but not always true. I worked at an autosound manufacturer, sometimes like oh was it Aston etc would have the same radio as some much cheaper car, because due to small production volumes it was not feasible to make something truly custom. That's why Lamborghini had Alpine radios, not Lamborghini radios. Once you get to like bespoke Rolls-Royces then a lot of hand stuff seems to happen, but at that in-between $100-$200k or whatever I'm not sure that you really get anything terribly special. Less common, yes, but "better" maybe not at all.

but at that in-between $100-$200k or whatever I'm not sure that you really get anything terribly special.

HA $100 - 200K for a Car? when you can have a "Cool" power cable for that kind of money

 

[Roland68]

but at that in-between $100-$200k or whatever I'm not sure that you really get anything terribly special.

HA $100 - 200K for a Car? when you can have a "Cool" power cable for that kind of money

This reminds me of an old joke.

Why does an electric car cost €50,000?

€10,000 for the car and €40,000 for the extension cord...

 

[MattHooper]

"Expensive for an audio system, but cheap for a time machine." There's some sweet sweet snake oil in this vid!

I’d seen that vid earlier and frankly, I actually appreciated the lack of cynicism he brought to that video.

It’s just so common for these things to be a version of “ see how crazy audiophiles are let’s laugh at them all.”

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I’d seen that vid earlier and frankly, I actually appreciated the lack of cynicism he brought to that video.

It’s just so common for these things to be a version of “ see how crazy audiophiles are let’s laugh at them all.”

I'm not entirely sure how to interpret his tone actually. The look on his face throughout most of the video is a sort of "I don't know wtf is going on here" look but I'm not familiar with him so maybe that's his standard MO. But I think he did a nice job of sort of suggesting there was a healthy dose of malarky going on while also indicating that that's absolutely fine as long as everyone is enjoying themselves. Which I guess is true to an extent...

I don't know if I have seen all that many occasions of the "see how crazy audiophiles are" type of thing you refer to though. It seems to me most of these type of vids are full of people having their minds blown by the audio nirvana they are experiencing and not many of them ever wondering if they could actually tell they were listening to a 10K speaker or a 750K speaker if they had to compare them without seeing them.

 

[MatrixS2000]

It’s just so common for these things to be a version of “ see how crazy audiophiles are let’s laugh at them all.”

I don’t know how you don’t get to that statement whether expressed verbally, typed on an audio forum or just thought in your head. $750,000 for a pair of speakers? $65,000 for a single mono power amp? Wire lifters??? It’s like they are begging us to point and laugh all the while crying about where “high end” is currently.

 

[MattHooper]

I don’t know how you don’t get to that statement whether expressed verbally, typed on an audio forum or just thought in your head. $750,000 for a pair of speakers? $65,000 for a single mono power amp? Wire lifters??? It’s like they are begging us to point and laugh all the while crying about where “high end” is currently.

^^ See what I mean?

Of course all that kind of stuff is red meat to the ASR crowd. And it’s the stuff of cliché that make people roll their eyes at audiophiles.

The exorbitant prices of the gear at the shows is going to be probably the most obvious thing for any “newbie” to be exposed to. It’s just a front and centre issue. So naturally, it was a theme in the video. But instead of just some blanket “ oh my God these prices are so stupid these audiophiles are nuts!” - I mean that is the standard caricature of audiophiles - I was impressed that the guy in the video managed a surprisingly non-judgmental tone and attitude, and open-mindedness to try and understand what audiophiles see in the type of gear seen in those shows.
There were some nice manufacture explanations of the reasoning behind their designs, and he also managed to have some compelling listening experiences.

Sometimes it’s nice to see an outsider video on audiophiles that isn’t just about tearing a derisive strip off the whole thing.

 

[Mart68]

^^ See what I mean?

Of course all that kind of stuff is red meat to the ASR crowd. And it’s the stuff of cliché that make people roll their eyes at audiophiles.

The exorbitant prices of the gear at the shows is going to be probably the most obvious thing for any “newbie” to be exposed to. It’s just a front and centre issue. So naturally, it was a theme in the video. But instead of just some blanket “ oh my God these prices are so stupid these audiophiles are nuts!” - I mean that is the standard caricature of audiophiles - I was impressed that the guy in the video managed a surprisingly non-judgmental tone and attitude, and open-mindedness to try and understand what audiophiles see in the type of gear seen in those shows.

I think that might be because he doesn't have any background? I've not come across him before so maybe he does? But I didn't get that impression.

For someone with no background in audio how would he know that the price tags are ridiculous and are not purchasing anything extra? That accessories like cable lifters are just cargo cult idiocy?

So of course it doesn't seem ludicrous to him, any more than a car show with $400K Lamborghinis would.

If he took a crash course in audio science and engineering and goes back next year would he still have the same perspective? I doubt it.

 

[MatrixS2000]

^^ See what I mean?

I had to purposefully step in it for the discussion.

Of course all that kind of stuff is red meat to the ASR crowd. And it’s the stuff of cliché that make people roll their eyes at audiophiles.
The exorbitant prices of the gear at the shows is going to be probably the most obvious thing for any “newbie” to be exposed to. It’s just a front and centre issue. So naturally, it was a theme in the video. But instead of just some blanket “ oh my God these prices are so stupid these audiophiles are nuts!” - I mean that is the standard caricature of audiophiles -

That is the crux of the problem though. That sort of stuff should not be red meat to the ASR crowd only. It should be red meat to anyone that puts some thought into a hobby they are interested in. That takes time and effort to build outside of your daily job if you are not technical to bring you up to speed (recognizing that some topics are significantly more complex and extend beyond the technical realm, requiring additional time and effort to understand; for example - psychoacoustics). So I agree with what @Mart68 said here:

If he took a crash course in audio science and engineering and goes back next year would he still have the same perspective? I doubt it.

Critical thinking skills are disappearing fast imo. We are in a strange place these days imo, where expert opinions are devalued while non-expert opinions are heralded and we end up with wire lifters being a thing.

I was impressed that the guy in the video managed a surprisingly non-judgmental tone and attitude, and open-mindedness to try and understand what audiophiles see in the type of gear seen in those shows.

Again, I got the same impression as Mart68, he is a novice in this hobby. I don't mean this as a criticism of him; we all start from scratch, as none of us are born with any audio knowledge - it has to be acquired as per earlier. I also don't see it as open-mindedness, I felt he was simply awestruck at the prices translating that to equating to better sound. Happens all the time to novices.

There were some nice manufacture explanations of the reasoning behind their designs, and he also managed to have some compelling listening experiences.

They were all sighted, so I didn’t view them as compelling experiences.

Sometimes it’s nice to see an outsider video on audiophiles that isn’t just about tearing a derisive strip off the whole thing.

I do get what you are after in the larger sense but isn’t that just turning a blind eye to the problem?

 

[Mark617]

There is no practical way that a set of $750,000 speakers will deliver 750 times the performance of a $7,500 pair. Let alone an amplifier. Just expensive snake oil. YMMV but not for that much!

 

[ta240]

They were all sighted, so I didn’t view them as compelling experiences.

If only he was as gifted of a listener as Amir, then we could take in his sighted listening experiences as objective. Like the reviews here.

 

[ta240]

There is no practical way that a set of $750,000 speakers will deliver 750 times the performance of a $7,500 pair. Let alone an amplifier. Just expensive snake oil. YMMV but not for that much!

750 times 7,500 is 5,625,000
But, the gain doesn't have to be equivalent to the increase in price. Do you only buy $7,500 speakers if they are 'perform' 75 times better than $1000 speakers?
There just has to be some gain in enjoyment. And I know that it is a very sore point on here when people enjoy things that it is felt they shouldn't, but that is really what it comes down to for the buyer.

 

[ta240]

^^ See what I mean?

Of course all that kind of stuff is red meat to the ASR crowd.

It triggers the "how dare anyone think that setup is better than mine just because it costs multiple times more"

Sometimes it’s nice to see an outsider video on audiophiles that isn’t just about tearing a derisive strip off the whole thing.

Which is very surprising to find anymore because 'mocking others choices, because I'm so much smarter' is a popular genre new.

 

[MattHooper]

I think that might be because he doesn't have any background? I've not come across him before so maybe he does? But I didn't get that impression.

For someone with no background in audio how would he know that the price tags are ridiculous and are not purchasing anything extra? That accessories like cable lifters are just cargo cult idiocy?

So of course it doesn't seem ludicrous to him, any more than a car show with $400K Lamborghinis would.

If he took a crash course in audio science and engineering and goes back next year would he still have the same perspective? I doubt it.

I see the point you are making, but newbies are still going to be wide eyed at the prices they encounter. Even longtime audilophiles are not fully inured. I even find myself it’s something of a continual state of shock.

And of course somebody could learn more about the snake oil behind cables and cable lifters.

I’m just referencing the overall tone of the video as refreshingly non-cynical.

And I myself pour quite a bit of cynicism on the high end. I don’t need to suddenly forget all I know to also feel it’s nice to sort of take a break from the negativity and just enjoy a video like this. I appreciate that I’m in the minority here on this.

I do get what you are after in the larger sense but isn’t that just turning a blind eye to the problem?

No. It’s just a personal reaction to a certain level of exhaustion with cynicism about high end gear - cynicism that I partake in as well.

I rolled my eyes somewhat at the part with the cables and cable lifters?
But I felt it was nice to see the author of the video didn’t run with that as a way to denounce the whole high end audio thing as nuts.

Again, I understand I would be in the minority here about this video. It could’ve easily turned into a “ look how crazy audiophiles are” hit piece, and I’m glad it didn’t take that route.