SMSL VMV D3 Review (R2R DAC)

[Tks]

One could get an Element-X from Matrix Audio for this price... Or for a thousand less, their latest Sabre DAC..

 

[Jimbob54]

One could get an Element-X from Matrix Audio for this price... Or for a thousand less, their latest Sabre DAC..

Too much sabre glare! ;-)

 

[Limopard]

Too much sabre glare! ;-)

But ideal for listening to the Sabre Dance.

 

[Spocko]

A DAC by it's very nature is kind of a boring component, so subjective factors (not measurements) are why people pay more. Not that the SMSL really has the it factor at $3k+ either.

I do think this is where my cognitive dissonance was triggered. My expectation of SMSL has always been great value for performance but not exactly Mark Levinson or McIntosh aesthetic snob appeal I'd put under the lights. Yet here we have SMSL attempting to be a showpiece to impress your friends - obviously I couldn't accept this possibility so I just assumed the owner bought it for cutting edge measurements (a la Topping). If the DAC measured exactly the same but was encased behind glass with blue glowing meters - I wouldn't blink an eye because I know exactly why the owner purchased it.

I guess I never thought people would buy the SMSL for non-audio reasons!

 

[Veri]

-5dB at Nyquist and no other options is fairly bad.

Well it's a Slow variant not shooting for Nyquist but yeah.

 

[gvl]

The ridiculous price likely has to go with the limited quantity of PCM1704 chips they were able to procure, once those are gone that will be the end of the D3, so they are not in any kind of rush to move them.

 

[Vain]

I see the Thomas Stereo YouTube guy is expecting a showdown about this review when he reviews it... I'm expecting him to love this of course but he has already said he doesn't review anything he doesn't already know he is going to like so there you go

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Out of curiosity, what type of filter does this use? Linear?

 

[Spocko]

I see the Thomas Stereo YouTube guy is expecting a showdown about this review when he reviews it... I'm expecting him to love this of course but he has already said he doesn't review anything he doesn't already know he is going to like so there you go

I've communicated with Thomas and have watched many many of his videos - I believe his position is that he first listens to the product, then if he likes it he will do a formal video about it, but if he doesn't like it - he tells the manufacturer that he won't do a review and returns the product to them. I don't believe he chooses to review a product because he expects to like it without first hearing it.

 

[lordvader]

Has anyone listened to the unit?
I've always been interested in implementations of 1704 dacs from a technical point of view. There are many interesting DIY projects around these DACs that I would have loved to dip my toe in. But, as they are unobtanium, lost interest (just assumed Audio-GD gobbled them all up).

 

[gvl]

Has anyone listened to the unit?
I've always been interested in implementations of 1704 dacs from a technical point of view. There are many interesting DIY projects around these DACs that I would have loved to dip my toe in. But, as they are unobtanium, lost interest (just assumed Audio-GD gobbled them all up).

Find a used Denon DVD-5000 for $100-200, better yet if the transport is broken as it will be cheaper. It has 4 of the chips same as the D3, well implemented.

 

[Jimster480]

Hey atleast this thing gets basically okay 16 bit performance! It should atleast be as good as a decent laptop 3.5mm jack output... Too bad the laptop isn't included in the huge price.

 

[Jimster480]

Find a used Denon DVD-5000 for $100-200, better yet if the transport is broken as it will be cheaper. It has 4 of the chips same as the D3, well implemented.

I wouldn't be surprised if these mfg's were buying up all the old DVD-5000's and harvesting the chips out of them since these DAC chips haven't been made in quite some time now.

 

[Vain]

I've communicated with Thomas and have watched many many of his videos - I believe his position is that he first listens to the product, then if he likes it he will do a formal video about it, but if he doesn't like it - he tells the manufacturer that he won't do a review and returns the product to them. I don't believe he chooses to review a product because he expects to like it without first hearing it.

That's splitting hairs - that's like me being a film critic, not liking a movie I watched and letting the director know but nobody else knows what I think.

His reasoning is summarised as:
- it's easy for me to select what I review
- I like to watch movies with happy endings - do you really want to see a movie with a sad ending? I don't want to waste your time telling you something sucks
- I dont review some items as I dont have anything to compare it to
- most importantly...I don't do bad reviews because I can be wrong..and I don't want to cause irreversible damage

Or maybe I misinterpeted his words

 

[aj625]

almost all reviewers tend to rate everything between 8.7 and 9.2 out of 10. in a group test they end up like, if you like this "kind" of sound then buy that dac and if you like that "kind" of sound then buy this dac.

 

[Chilli]

Interesting review. Some of the measurements are quite good. In particular, the linearity is pretty good, compared to dacs made a long time ago with this chip. The jitter test is great. The THD is not amazing, but each order is below the CD threshold.
Of course it doesn’t measure as well as the latest ds designs. However, for the time when they were designed for 16 bit CD playback, doesn’t this meet reasonable standards? I mainly listen to this format. If I was well heeled and nostalgic I would consider it. But I don’t need to, as I already have a Dac with an old chip like this. To most of you this dac doesn’t have any relevance in the market.
This is not trash. It’s someone trying to squeeze everything they can out of 20+yr old chip and making it useful. Its admirable. It’s engineering. It’s recycling as well.
So glad your measured this.

 

[aj625]

Interesting review. Some of the measurements are quite good. In particular, the linearity is pretty good, compared to dacs made a long time ago with this chip. The jitter test is great. The THD is not amazing, but each order is below the CD threshold.
Of course it doesn’t measure as well as the latest ds designs. However, for the time when they were designed for 16 bit CD playback, doesn’t this meet reasonable standards? I mainly listen to this format. If I was well heeled and nostalgic I would consider it. But I don’t need to, as I already have a Dac with an old chip like this. To most of you this dac doesn’t have any relevance in the market.
This is not trash. It’s someone trying to squeeze everything they can out of 20+yr old chip and making it useful. Its admirable. It’s engineering. It’s recycling as well.
So glad your measured this.

even at $3500 it is not trash ? even nostalgia can not justify it's 3.5k price tag.

 

[gvl]

@SMSL-Mandy, is there a technical possibility a future firmware update can bring an option to disable the digital filter, ie allow true NOS mode?

 

[Spocko]

That's splitting hairs - that's like me being a film critic, not liking a movie I watched and letting the director know but nobody else knows what I think.

His reasoning is summarised as:
- it's easy for me to select what I review
- I like to watch movies with happy endings - do you really want to see a movie with a sad ending? I don't want to waste your time telling you something sucks
- I dont review some items as I dont have anything to compare it to
- most importantly...I don't do bad reviews because I can be wrong..and I don't want to cause irreversible damage

Or maybe I misinterpeted his words

It's splitting hairs only if you weren't implying he had already judged a product as good/bad before even hearing it - that was the implication, but maybe not your intent. As to his reason for not publishing negative reviews, I have no problems with it at all. He has complete creative autonomy and he only enjoys talking about gear he loves - we might as well call his channel "Talking about all the audio gear I like" which is very different than channels like RTINGS which is creating a master index ranking all products against their peers to help consumers decide. The former is his subjective platform to share his positive audiophile journey while the latter is an objective encyclopedia to help consumers compare products.

Back on topic before I get kicked out: So if this SMSL subjectively impresses Thomas, he's definitely going to be excited. If it's "meh", he'll still talk about its use case for one of his friends like "Mr. Vintage", but if it's disappointing to all involved then it will never see the light of day on his channel.

 

[anphex]

Maybe wrong thread for this but allow me a quick question:
The R2R/NOS issue with the wobbly high frequency sine near niquist - does it disappear when using let's say 384khz for an 44,1 signal? Or is 44,1 signal played at 44,1 sample rate with a filter still better even then?