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SMSL SU-8 Version 2 Balanced DAC

Shane D

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If you're unlucky and get a bad DAC, it's just the headache of returning it and then waiting for the replacement.
It shouldn't cost you more.
In my experience, and reading reviews, it's like a 5% chance.
Just buy it as directly as you can from them. And if you have to contact them for whatever reason, start your email with "Dear..."

I would buy directly from Shenzen Audio. I am hoping they put it on sale again next week (Monday there, Sunday in my world). They have been putting it on for $212.49, with free shipping. I think if it goes on sale on Sunday night I will order it. It comes with a one year warranty and a 30 day return period.

Shane D
 

RainyMirror

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Some questions:
If I upsample everything to DSD512, will I skip the SU-8 filters?
If not, which filter is better for classical music and a tube amp, with speakers that do 25Hz - 30kHz?

I'm giving the SU-8 another go, with the DSD512 upsampling and RCA outputs.

I ask again, since Shane derailed my question into another page :p
 

Shane D

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I ask again, since Shane derailed my question into another page :p

And that kind of goes with my question.:) Does the machine automatically upsample everything/anything?

Shane D
 

RainyMirror

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And that kind of goes with my question.:) Does the machine automatically upsample everything/anything?

Shane D
Supposedly, internally everything "becomes PCM", but I don't know at what sample rate. I don't know anything, so I'll keep quiet and wait for some adult to show up and answer.
 

Shane D

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As will I now.

Shane D
 

Veri

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And that kind of goes with my question.:) Does the machine automatically upsample everything/anything?

Shane D
It does not upsample, but it oversamples PCM via digital filter. As does basically any modern delta sigma DAC, to get a normal-looking wave. If you'd take the 44/48Khz data as-is, it would have a stepped response with all kinds of aliasing and imaging nasties in the analog output.

DSD on most recent DAC chips is processed 'natively'.
TL;DR don't worry about it.
 

Shane D

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It does not upsample, but it oversamples via digital filter. As does basically any modern delta sigma DAC, to get a normal-looking wave. If you'd take the 44/48Khz data as-is it would have a stepped response with all kinds of aliasing and imaging nasties in the analog output.

TL;DR don't worry about it.

I know this is a stupid question, but I have to ask: what is the difference between oversampling and upsampling?

Thank you.

Shane D
 

Veri

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I know this is a stupid question, but I have to ask: what is the difference between oversampling and upsampling?

Thank you.

Shane D
They refer to the same mathematical process. They are, however, used in different contexts.

Oversampling refers to what goes on before the anti-aliasing filter in any modern DAC (the one in your receiver, the one in your iPod, and so on...). The purpose of this filter is to pass audio frequencies (20khz and under) unmodified, but dramatically attenuate frequencies past the Nyquist frequency. If this is not done, you end up with distortion in the audioband (aliasing).

The problem arises because if we have a filter which cuts really sharply, it has various unwanted effects: filter design involves mathematically certain compromises. So, if you want to have 20khz at full volume, but you want to stop frequencies above 22khz leaking in, you're going to have to compromise in the design of your filter, potentially audibly so.

The solution is very simple: oversampling. This simply increases the sample rate so you have a wider transition band (more room) available for your filter, as the Nyquist frequency is higher. This means that it doesn't have to be so steep, and you don't end up with a filter that significantly degrades the audio.

When you read about a DAC featuring an upsampling process, this doesn't take away whether or not it oversamples (if it didn't do that, it would be what some call 'NOS'/non-oversampling and what most here would call 'broken').

The purposes of such upsampling (often via asynchronous sample rate conversion or ASRC) is usually to do with jitter reduction: all the timing information of the digital audio interface is, in effect, 'thrown away', and the digital audio is reproduced to a local, low jitter time reference. This process can be done highly effectively and completely transparently. It is not the only way to reduce jitter, but it is a perfectly good way to go about it.

Source and longer explanations taken from a great reddit post I had saved here
 
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Shane D

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They refer to the same mathematical process. They are, however, used in different contexts.

Oversampling refers to what goes on before the anti-aliasing filter in any modern DAC (the one in your receiver, the one in your iPod, and so on...). The purpose of this filter is to pass audio frequencies (20khz and under) unmodified, but dramatically attenuate frequencies past the Nyquist frequency. If this is not done, you end up with distortion in the audioband (aliasing).

The problem arises because if we have a filter which cuts really sharply, it has various unwanted effects: filter design involves mathematically certain compromises. So, if you want to have 20khz at full volume, but you want to stop frequencies above 22khz leaking in, you're going to have to compromise in the design of your filter, potentially audibly so.

The solution is very simple: oversampling. This simply increases the sample rate so you have a wider transition band (more room) available for your filter, as the Nyquist frequency is higher. This means that it doesn't have to be so steep, and you don't end up with a filter that degrades the audio.

When you read about a DAC featuring an upsampling process, this doesn't take away whether or not it oversamples (if it didn't do that, it would be what some call 'NOS'/non-oversampling and what most here would call 'broken').

The purposes of such sample rate conversion is usually to do with jitter reduction: all the timing information of the digital audio interface is, in effect, 'thrown away', and the digital audio is reproduced to a local, low jitter time reference. This process can be done highly effectively and completely transparently. It is not the only way to reduce jitter, but it is a perfectly good way to go about it.

Source and longer explanations taken from a great reddit post I had saved here

Very educational. Thanks!

Shane D
 

klimal

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I have the su8 connected via XLR to my integrated amp. I control the volume via my integrated.
Do I leave the vol on the dac at max?
Otherwise it works perfectly, using Tube1 and Happy with it.
 

obc

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Is there a best menu pairing for "sound" and "pcm filters"? I cant find good info´s about it, if somebody has a link pls share it. I cant even find info´s about the specific differences, example; Sound: Original or Standard? Pcm Filter: When should i use fast linear, when slow linear?
I´m not a professional and it pretty overwhelms me to set this thing up perfectly.
 

JohnYang1997

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I have the su8 connected via XLR to my integrated amp. I control the volume via my integrated.
Do I leave the vol on the dac at max?
Otherwise it works perfectly, using Tube1 and Happy with it.
In short, yes.
But whatever you feel comfortable with.
 

JohnYang1997

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Is there a best menu pairing for "sound" and "pcm filters"? I cant find good info´s about it, if somebody has a link pls share it. I cant even find info´s about the specific differences, example; Sound: Original or Standard? Pcm Filter: When should i use fast linear, when slow linear?
I´m not a professional and it pretty overwhelms me to set this thing up perfectly.
The sound options should be the digital signal processing that is not true to the original recording but it's subjective, if you like one of the options it's fine to use.
Filter wise, you may not hear a difference between them. So leave it as it is or whichever number you feel lucky with. But actually, there is slight difference between them just too minimal. For most people, fast linear is the most blameless one.
 

klimal

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Is there a best menu pairing for "sound" and "pcm filters"? I cant find good info´s about it, if somebody has a link pls share it. I cant even find info´s about the specific differences, example; Sound: Original or Standard? Pcm Filter: When should i use fast linear, when slow linear?
I´m not a professional and it pretty overwhelms me to set this thing up perfectly.

I am also very new at this, so am following too.
Based on an old article on the Meridien 808.2 CD player, I set my PCM filter to apodising
https://www.stereophile.com/cdplaye...re_reference_cd_playerpreamplifier/index.html

For the Sound setting I am still trying but tube 1 sounds best to me. it has the 'tube' second harmonic distortion which I like
I have mine connected to a hybrid integrated amp with a tube pre section and a solid state power amp.

For a run down of the filters and Sound dsp on SU-8, it was discussed in the initial review sample
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ments-of-smsl-su-8-dac.3778/page-6#post-90922
 
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Jaimo

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So, following a suggestion from Roon, I made sure the unit was powered up and the video screen was set on "usb dac", and I connected the usb cable to the appropriate usb connection on the back of the SU8. I connected the other end of the usb cable to the input on my Mac laptop. A quick check of the "Sounds" section of the "Systems Preferences" of the laptop shows only internal speakers and Airplay, with no notice that the DAC was connected and operating. So, obviously, there is a flaw in my unit, and it is going back. I will likely re-order another SU8 once the return of this one is sorted out. And the adventure continues.

I’ve been running Roon/Tidal on a Mac-Mini into a SU-8 for several months and this combo has worked flawlessly for me - better than the four other DAC’s I own. I do hear minor pops when switching inputs from USB to Optical but this is not excessive. I also keep my active speakers and the SU-8 powered on permanently so there’s no issues with power-up pops which can be quite nasty.

Is your Mac OS current?
 

Shoaibexpert

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Hi @amirm just have a quick question. I play streams via Tidal and when I upgraded from Dragonfly Red to the SMSL SU-8, I have this feeling that the music is being played a tiny bit faster....its like the timing is different on both DACs. Is there a measurement for that in your review and which one would you say is playing at the right play speed.. That is if there's a difference.. Could be just placebo. Thanks
 

Veri

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Hi @amirm just have a quick question. I play streams via Tidal and when I upgraded from Dragonfly Red to the SMSL SU-8, I have this feeling that the music is being played a tiny bit faster....its like the timing is different on both DACs. Is there a measurement for that in your review and which one would you say is playing at the right play speed.. That is if there's a difference.. Could be just placebo. Thanks
SU-8 is at 1.00000 Khz rate, Dragonfly Red at 1.00039 rate, it is shown in the "frequency" of the measurement dashboard. In other words the SU-8 is dead accurate while the Dragonfly plays back at a 0,04% faster rate, four hundredths of a percent... Seems hiiiiighly unlikely you could hear this because in fact the Dragonfly is the 'faster' one.
 
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Shoaibexpert

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SU-8 is at 1.00000 Khz rate, Dragonfly Red at 1.00039 rate, it is shown in the "frequency" of the measurement dashboard. In other words the SU-8 is dead accurate while the Dragonfly plays back at a 0,04% faster rate, four hundredths of a percent... Seems hiiiiighly unlikely you could hear this because in fact the Dragonfly is the 'faster' one.
Thanks @Veri I guess I'll need to get used to it. I have another problem. The Dragonfly plays MQA (at full rendering) and the SMSL SU-8 doesn't. So I connected both DACs to 2 USB ports and try to change the output device from within Tidal App or Windows. What is happening is that as soon as I connect the Dragonfly having the SMSL already connected, the output on SMSL SU-8 drops to barely audible level but the Dragonfly Red outputs fine volume. Then when I disconnect the Dragonfly, the SMSL output button comes loud (normal). I wanna connect both DACs so I can switch to Dragonfly Red when playing MQA from within the Tidal App without having to plug USBs in and out. Would you the reason for this or have a solution to this? Greatly appreciated!
 

Veri

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Umm I'm not sure you can drive multiple devices with USB at the same time actually, I don't think I can under Windows.
 

Shoaibexpert

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Umm I'm not sure you can drive multiple devices with USB at the same time actually, I don't think I can under Windows.
Sure you can! Whilst both DACs are connected, just switch the output from within the Tidal App to your desired DAC and it will playback from that device. My only problem is that when both are connected to my Windows 10 PC, the volume on SMSL drops way low when selected but the Dragonfly Red seem to output just fine. I also get a static when I connect the Dragonfly Red - which I don't if I only connect the SMSL or Dragonfly separately (individually). Maybe @amirm could shed some light on this...
 
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