SMSL SU-8 Version 2 Balanced DAC

[Toku]

I didn’t see any option for shipping from the US when I checked out. What with the China tariffs I would have expected the US price to be higher. This way Canadians seem to be billed for the tariff and also hit with slow shipping. Still, the price is very good.

When I order from Japan to MASDROP, in addition to the high shipping fee, I am charged a customs fee and tax.
However, when I order the same item from Aliexpress in China, customs fee and tax are not required. Delivery days are much faster in China than in the United States.

 

[Jaimo]

When I order from Japan to MASDROP, in addition to the high shipping fee, I am charged a customs fee and tax.
However, when I order the same item from Aliexpress in China, customs fee and tax are not required. Delivery days are much faster in China than in the United States.

I would have ordered from Massdrop but their drop has ended and besides, it takes forever for the drop to end. I recently waited three months for my HD6xx phones. All things considered, waiting for Shenzhen is not a bad idea.

 

[frogmeat69]

I would have ordered from Massdrop but their drop has ended and besides, it takes forever for the drop to end. I recently waited three months for my HD6xx phones. All things considered, waiting for Shenzhen is not a bad idea.

3 months? HA! I just got my pair of ESP/95X electrostats today, ordered them on Massdrop in mid September, so 5 months, lol, I win.
The Meze 99's they are making I also ordered, that will be about 6 months, .

 

[Jaimo]

3 months? HA! I just got my pair of ESP/95X electrostats today, ordered them on Massdrop in mid September, so 5 months, lol, I win.
The Meze 99's they are making I also ordered, that will be about 6 months, .

All good things come to those who wait

 

[ColinMacLaren]

My SU-8 will arrive on Saturday. It's kinda cool that Amazon has all SMSL products in stock in the EU. Is there an amp that matches the SU-8 in design and size, so I can build a nice fitting stack?

 

[WondrousHippo]

My SU-8 will arrive on Saturday. It's kinda cool that Amazon has all SMSL products in stock in the EU. Is there an amp that matches the SU-8 in design and size, so I can build a nice fitting stack?

There is the SH-8, but Amir hasn’t measured it.

 

[Ultrasonic]

In this case we have 2 ES9038Q2M stereo DAC modules, one is generating two identical Left channels the other two identical Right channels, then the signal path continues in this fashion. If it was an unbalanced design it would have been only 2 channels in the signal path.

So where I was coming from yesterday is that given this, is there not an additional step in producing the unbalanced signal by combining the above, whereas you spoke about additional steps to produced the balanced output. Just explaining why, following your logic, I suggested it might be an inherently unbalanced design. The change in non-mains noise levels is what it is either way but I still think its interesting it's higher for the balanced outputs. (We're talking about what looks like a 5 dB change across the board here for people who haven't checked back to the original graphs.)

I personally think that in a professional or enthusiasts product at least a balanced connection (not end-to-end design) should be mandatory.

Agreed. It has actually frustrated me for years that balanced connections aren't the standard across consumer audio products, since it is just inherently better from a technical perspective than unbalanced connections.

Also get Proel Bulk cables or other professional affordable cables if you don't have money to throw at hyped audiophile cable brands.
Avoid cheap unknown alternatives and you'll be good!

Don't worry there is zero danger of me buying expensive audiophile cables. I went down that rabbit hole 10-15 years ago, but I'm better now . I mostly make my own cables now but I did order a couple of balanced cables last night, made with van Damme cable and Neutrik connectors that I think should be fine. What I'm less confident about sourcing is a well-matched pair of XLR in-line attenuators, since none of the ones I've found so far quote any sort of tolerance. I obviously want to avoid introducing a channel level imbalance into the stereo signal.

Does anyone have any recommendations of XLR attenuators to use?

 

[badyard]

So where I was coming from yesterday is that given this, is there not an additional step in producing the unbalanced signal by combining the above, whereas you spoke about additional steps to produced the balanced output. Just explaining why, following your logic, I suggested it might be an inherently unbalanced design. The change in non-mains noise levels is what it is either way but I still think its interesting it's higher for the balanced outputs. (We're talking about what looks like a 5 dB change across the board here for people who haven't checked back to the original graphs.)

Oh now I've got it, what are you referring to is due to the summing of the signal at the balanced destination, which gives a boost of almost 6dB, if you look at the graphs you can see that the peak has the same boost compared to unbalanced graphs.

Does anyone have any recommendations of XLR attenuators to use?

I'm interested too, would be nice to know the actual output impedance of the balanced outputs in SU-8.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Oh now I've got it, what are you referring to is due to the summing of the signal at the balanced destination, which gives a boost of almost 6dB, if you look at the graphs you can see that the peak has the same boost compared to unbalanced graphs.

I'd realised there was going to be a 6dB signal boost but I'd thought the graphs I was comparing were normalised to 0 dB for the 1 kHz peak. Checking back though I see this isn't the case! So yes, you're right, this probably is the cause of the effect I'd spotted .

Naively I suppose I might have thought the summing could have resulted in some cancellation of random noise to reduce this but I can see now that at least it's not worse as I had thought.

 

[hege]

Does anyone have any recommendations of XLR attenuators to use?

https://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/inline-devices/mpd-inline-attenuator/

 

[Ultrasonic]

https://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/inline-devices/mpd-inline-attenuator/

I can't see any tolerance data on their website? Have you used some of these?

I'm actually in the UK rather than US if anyone has any more local suggestions. I'm aware of Rothwell attenuators but a pair would cost £70 (~$90) so if there were cheaper alternatives that are good I'd be interested. I've emailed Studiospares to ask about the tolerance of theirs.

 

[hege]

I can't see any tolerance data on their website? Have you used some of these?

I'm actually in the UK rather than US if anyone has any more local suggestions. I'm aware of Rothwell attenuators but a pair would cost £70 (~$90) so if there were cheaper alternatives that are good I'd be interested. I've emailed Studiospares to ask about the tolerance of theirs.

What tolerance? Resistors?

"The MPD attenuators use precision 1% tolerance resistors, so matching between units will typically be within 0.1dB."

You can use Shipito, I ordered many times from Naiant using it.

Of course DIY would be cheapest, it's just some resistors in a shell..

 

[Ultrasonic]

What tolerance? Resistors?

"The MPD attenuators use precision 1% tolerance resistors, so matching between units will typically be within 0.1dB."

Missed that! Matching between units was what I meant.

If course DIY would be cheapest, it's just some resistors in a shell..

I'm not totally averse to a DIY option. I'm no electronics whiz but I've made up simple interconnects before.

 

[badyard]

I also have the need for attenuators for my active speakers connected to SU-8, the problem is that i'm splitting the XLR outputs from the SU-8 already to connect SH-8 and active speakers (both balanced), and not knowing the impedance or either SU-8 and SH-8 it's tricky to evaluate a proper solution.
Also my active speakers have an input impedance of 10K because they already have an integrated input trim (which is now set to minimum but is not enough), basically i'm limited in using the dac volume up to only 15/17 because at that point my speakers are already too loud.
Even though the speakers have protection and they can't blow up i'm kinda scared knowing that DAC volume can reach up to 38.

 

[Nabobalis]

So I saw comments about the colour profiles like tube 1, 2, 3. Can anyone tell how well they work for simulating that kind of sound?

I have never used a tube amplifier but I really don't want to buy one just to try it but if a DAC can simulate it well enough. That seems like an ideal option.

 

[snowsurfer]

Placed my order for a SU-8 with Shenzhen on Feb 8 and it's still in "processing". Looks like they are badly backlogged. Not sure if it applies to me but the website now say's that shipping is currently on Feb18 for SU-8 orders - Even with Chinese New Year considered, this is a long delay when added to shipping time to North America and pushes my expected delivery date close to a month from order. - Will update if anything changes...

I placed my order on the 4th and wrote them, they immediately replied that they were off due to New Years and that orders would ship on the 11th, ended up shipping on the 12th. Every single time I wrote I received a quick reply.

 

[snowsurfer]

I also have the need for attenuators for my active speakers connected to SU-8, the problem is that i'm splitting the XLR outputs from the SU-8 already to connect SH-8 and active speakers (both balanced), and not knowing the impedance or either SU-8 and SH-8 it's tricky to evaluate a proper solution.
Also my active speakers have an input impedance of 10K because they already have an integrated input trim (which is now set to minimum but is not enough), basically i'm limited in using the dac volume up to only 15/17 because at that point my speakers are already too loud.
Even though the speakers have protection and they can't blow up i'm kinda scared knowing that DAC volume can reach up to 38.

Is it not enough to just reduce the volume on the speakers themselves? My JBL LSR305s have a volume control on the back which I expect to adjust again when the SU-8 arrives, or am I missing something? Hmmm. :/

 

[badyard]

Is it not enough to just reduce the volume on the speakers themselves? My JBL LSR305s have a volume control on the back which I expect to adjust again when the SU-8 arrives, or am I missing something? Hmmm. :/

The trim on my speakers can do +6 / -6 dB, but the speakers have a pretty large power reserve, in other words they are too powerful.

 

[badyard]

So I saw comments about the colour profiles like tube 1, 2, 3. Can anyone tell how well they work for simulating that kind of sound?

I have never used a tube amplifier but I really don't want to buy one just to try it but if a DAC can simulate it well enough. That seems like an ideal option.

The DAC cannot simulate a tube amplifier per se, it can simulate non-linear harmonics of a tube preamp, but tubes do something more complex to the sound than just that.

 

[Veri]

but tubes do something more complex to the sound than just that.

Like? They emit noise/hum and "warm" the signal via harmonic distortion. that's it, nothing supra-scientific going on here....

If you were to say it's difficult to "map" this effect via digital processing, yes you might have a point. But trying the $199 TwinTube VST myself as an example, I have created presets that come VERY close, without any humming noise whatsoever, just the warm/gooey harmonics sound. I far prefer this approach, and don't have to spend $500-$1000 on a 'good' tube amp....