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SMSL SU-8 Version 2 Balanced DAC

JohnYang1997

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It is at this point, that we can figure... this is entirely your imagination. Volume match, I don't need to?
You can tell what each dac sounds like? What the hell man. I'm afraid you're overestimating yourself :oops:
Also why volume match is needed for dac comparison. They both output roughly at 2v that's good enough. Unless you are going to say the voltage changes the input characteristics of the amo front end which is actually true but not shown by any measurements that it's "audible". Stop double standard in this.
 

daftcombo

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Yes, basically. And I don't believe volume matching tests. The memory effect will ruin everything (even though maybe not this case).

I have two DACs at home. One plays at 65dB, the other at 90dB.
Believe me or not, I can actually tell which is playing 100% of the time, even in broad daylight.
 

Veri

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Also why volume match is needed for dac comparison. They both output roughly at 2v that's good enough. Unless you are going to say the voltage changes the input characteristics of the amo front end which is actually true but not shown by any measurements that it's "audible". Stop double standard in this.
Dude. The tiniest offset in "about same volume" makes you EXACTLY imagine "tone, texture, soft/not solid" kind of things. why do you think that carefully normalising volume (as @amirm has done for several DACs already) makes these differences instantly disappear??

You are operating from a total broscience kind of approach where you hear exactly the kind of thing you want to hear. The kind of proper testing is hardly a kept secret and I'm honestly surprised at your careless approach to this. Blind test or not, if you aren't properly matching things will doubtlessly sound just that little bit different enough that you'd hear differences!!

Of course you are free to conduct tests as you please but I'm surely not alone in taking this kind of "obvious to you" experience with a great grain of salt (no offense)
 

JohnYang1997

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Dude. The tiniest offset in "about same volume" makes you EXACTLY imagine "tone, texture, soft/not solid" kind of things. why do you think that carefully normalising volume (as @amirm has done for several DACs already) makes these differences instantly disappear??

You are operating from a total broscience kind of approach where you hear exactly the kind of thing you want to hear. The kind of proper testing is hardly a kept secret and I'm honestly surprised at your careless approach to this. Blind test or not, if you aren't properly matching things will doubtlessly sound just that little bit different enough that you'd hear differences!!

Of course you are free to conduct tests as you please but I'm surely not alone in taking this kind of "obvious to you" experience with a great grain of salt (no offense)
I'll show you the difference in volume. There shouldn't be any in the first place.
 

JohnPM

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Basically the main two tests that triggers weird patterns are:

Dual tone: 30hz + 1000hz with a ratio of 4:1

Multitone with pink tilt(like pink boise -20db/dec) that are NID in rew, or 1 5 12 29 49hz ... which is a irregular array of frequencies.
Hann window is probably not the best for those measurements, better with something that has much lower sidelobes - Dolph Chebyshev 150 or 200, for example. Won't have any effect on the patterns you are seeing but probably will affect the TD+N figures.
 

MWC

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What is the frequency response of this DAC. Is there a reason you don't report the frequency response in any of your DAC tests? Maybe because you test with only 44.1kHz redbook files and your test equipment is limited to 20Hz to 20 kHz?
 

amirm

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What is the frequency response of this DAC. Is there a reason you don't report the frequency response in any of your DAC tests? Maybe because you test with only 44.1kHz redbook files and your test equipment is limited to 20Hz to 20 kHz?
My test gear goes up to 1 Mhz so no limitation there at all. I don't do frequency response tests on DACs because it is boring as they are all so good. If you see a review and want to see it, just as at the time.
 

MWC

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@amirm good to hear, thank you. I asked as I'm into hi res music over CD quality and with my Adam A7X monitors going up to 50kHz I would not want a DAC to be the bottleneck with the higher frequencies.
 

Yuno

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@amirm good to hear, thank you. I asked as I'm into hi res music over CD quality and with my Adam A7X monitors going up to 50kHz I would not want a DAC to be the bottleneck with the higher frequencies.
Your hearing which doesn't go over 20kHz (very optimistic) is already a bottleneck. Unless you are building audio system for your pets, this is irrelevant for anything.
 

MWC

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@Yuno or yu think yu know :) LOL
You seem to be another of those flat-earther types not believing in anything being audible, or effecting the audible spectrum, over 20kHz. I happen to have a slightly different belief system to yours and don't really want to rain on your parade and despite your really apt nickname I respect you having your belief system. Please respect me and mine, thank you
 

Yuno

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@Yuno or yu think yu know :) LOL
You seem to be another of those flat-earther types not believing in anything being audible, or effecting the audible spectrum, over 20kHz. I happen to have a slightly different belief system to yours and don't really want to rain on your parade and despite your really apt nickname I respect you having your belief system. Please respect me and mine, thank you
I believe that humans don't hear frequencies that are outside of human hearing range. I won't respect your beliefs, because they are scientifically disproved.
How about you visit audiologist and ask them to enlighten you on this? Or just take whichever online hearing test and see how much past 20kHz you can hear. You bringing up flat-earthers is the biggest irony in all of this.
 

MWC

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@Yuno I think you will find that it has be scientifically proven that audio energy above 20Khz can audibly effect how we hear within the 20Hz to 20kHz 'human hearing' range. BUT I can't have a intelligent conversation with a closed mind. However I still respect you having a different opinion. It's pointless continuing this, have a nice life.
 
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Yuno

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@Yuno I can't have a intelligent conversation with a closed mind, but I still respect you having a different opinion. It's pointless continuing this, have a nice life.
I don't have much interest in discussing something that medical professionals spent decades researching. I can discuss tastes in movies, not science.
Frankly I was hoping you are misinformed, but that's not the case it seems.

I agree with your last point, this is pointless and I will just leave you to believe whatever you want.
 
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@Yuno I think you will find that it has be scientifically proven that audio energy above 20Khz can audibly effect how we hear within the 20Hz to 20kHz 'human hearing' range.
Could you post some links to relevant papers demonstrating this please?
 

MWC

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I'll try something simple just to sum it up. Music has sympathetic resonances at certain intervals, such as per octave. Some music creates sound energy at high frequencies out of the human range of hearing (inaudible, but still there). These high frequencies have a perceptible, even measurable, effect within the 20Hz to 20kHz range due to sympathetic resonance. This is how 'ultrasonics' as you might like to call it effects what we hear in our limited human hearing range.
I read and understood this in relevant papers, but I don't have them to hand. Man, I did not come here for this argumentative nonsense. Haven't you anything better to do with your time?
I asked a simple 'scientific' question: "What is the frequency response of this DAC?" Obviously at the analogue out stage! Do you guys give me all this grief just because you can't answer this simple question?
 

Yuno

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I asked a simple 'scientific' question: "What is the frequency response of this DAC?" Obviously at the analogue out stage! Do you guys give me all this grief just because you can't answer this simple question?
Hi-Res certification means it is (or should be) capable of reproducing at least 40kHz. Besides that, no one knows anything beyond what Amir published in his tests.
 
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amirm

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What is the frequency response of this DAC. Is there a reason you don't report the frequency response in any of your DAC tests? Maybe because you test with only 44.1kHz redbook files and your test equipment is limited to 20Hz to 20 kHz?
My test gear goes up to 1 Mhz. I don't do frequency response tests on DACs because it is boring as they are all so good. If you see a review and want to see it, just as at the time.
 

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