SMSL SU-2 DAC Review (NTTY)

[Frunse]

The timing accuracy of the the CD player has nothing to do with anything — just as you have never asked about the timing accuracy of a non-defective spinning hard drive. The CD player sequential reads blocks of data, combines them, analyzes them, converts to your selected format (e.g., FLAC), and writes the song track to the hard drive. That process happens much faster than the song would play back in the first place; and it is not playing the song at the same time, so playback timing is irrelevant. In fact, you want the CD player to take extra time and try re-reading any defective section of disk again if it detected an error.

There were a few very technical (and esoteric) factors that made some CD players just so slightly better than others. I think it was around stuff such as the ability to read the zero block, how offset to the start of data was reported, and how it handled retry on errors such as scratches. But those articles were 20+ years ago so I do not recall the details. It slightly biased which of my many CD trays I used in the early 2000's. Note: it always biased me towards the more basic CD players and was simply a preference of some manufacture's firmware over others, never towards anything expensive.

But now, the use of software such as dBpoweramp and EAC largely eliminate those issues since you just compare the bits of your rip against what others submitted. When I first started, those database were just getting started, and quite a few of my disks were the initial entry -- either entirely new, or just the first version of that pressing.

I'm still using this basic CD/DVD player, bought in Feb 2015 for $19.99 (now $26.39 from NewEgg): Lite-On DVD Burner Black SATA Model iHAS124-14

I use an DVD Writer SAMSUNG SE-218 with EAC and had no issues so far.

Now i look for an Blueray Writer but there ar much Slim drives and not much 5 1/4" aviable and i am not sure which one is the best Buy.

I would Prefer an 5 1/4" in an External Housing.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Inserted my new SMSL SU-2 DAC into my "traveling audio stack" at our temporary rental. I took advantage of a 10% sale price (USD $89.99), even though I won't really need this DAC until we get into our long-term rental house and move the rest of my home-office audio stack down from our storage unit outside of Seattle.

Audio chain:

Laptop (USB) => Topping D10B (optical) => \​

|> SMSL SU-2 (XLR) => RME ADI-2 Pro => HD 600 headphones​

iPhone (Airplay 2 WiFI) => WiiM Pro (coax) => /​

Obviously, the SMSL SU-2 is superfluous in this chain since the D10B and WiiM Pro can directly connect to the RME ADI-2 — which is how it was setup before the SMSL SU-2 arrived. That said, the SEL switch on the SU-2's front panel is convenient (at least, until I can get back to my stereo audio mixer so I don't need to bother switching).

However — apart of the sheer fun of just testing it out — inserting the SU-2 DAC into this chain now allows me to begin the incredibly important electronics burn-in process* over the next 30 days.



* Yes, "electronics burn-in" is a thing! The majority of electronics failures happens within the first weeks of use; and I only have a 30-day return window. So this gets my testing out of the way now while I still can return it; instead of leaving in the box and finding out it has an early-failure defect a month from now. And to be very clear, this is not about it sounding better... just making sure the unit's sound quality doesn't degrade (technical term = "crap out") within the next 30 days while I can still return it.

 

[Frunse]

Why not using Laptop to RME USB directly ??? Driver Problems?

I like the Fact you are using still the HD600 like me

 

[Roland68]

Why not using Laptop to RME USB directly ??? Driver Problems?

I like the Fact you are using still the HD600 like me

When used as a DDC with an optical connection to the RME ADI, the D10(B) can also help resolve grounding issues (via galvanic isolation).

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Why not using Laptop to RME USB directly ??? Driver Problems?

You are correct for this temporary living situation — the laptop (along with the WiiM Pro) could both go directly into the RME ADI-2; and that was how I had it setup. But I hooked the TOPPING D10B for this testing period so that the laptop (optical) and WiiM (coax) both route via the SMSL SU-2.

That said, when I get back to my standard home-office configuration, I would not be able to ADI-2 Pro's USB for the laptop since I would instead be using it for multi-channel mode (6 send, 8 return channels) to enable off-board DSP processing.

The other reason is that once I get my Ashly LX-308B stereo mixer back out of storage, all source inputs will be mixed together through that before being feed into the ADI-2 Pro. So for that reason as well, the laptop will be behind the D10B and the WiiM Pro behind the SU-2; and both will be connected by XLR/TRS cables into the stereo mixer, along with all of my other input sources.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

When used as a DDC with an optical connection to the RME ADI, the D10(B) can also help resolve grounding issues (via galvanic isolation).

That would be a benefit if needed as well; though not an issue for my environment. It is one of the reasons the digital outputs on the D10B wasn't a dumb idea, despite many people saying that when it came out (complaining that the D10B only had USB in and no other digital inputs).

 

[Roland68]

That would be a benefit if needed as well; though not an issue for my environment. It is one of the reasons the digital outputs on the D10B wasn't a dumb idea, despite many people saying that when it came out (complaining that the D10B only had USB in and no other digital inputs).

It’s exactly the same as when the "SMSL SU-2: a dumb, wasted opportunity" thread was created.
Some people simply can't look beyond their own limited perspective. Where they talk about "a dumb, wasted opportunity," others see great possibilities.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

It’s exactly the same as when the "SMSL SU-2: a dumb, wasted opportunity" thread was created.
Some people simply can't look beyond their own limited perspective. Where they talk about "a dumb, wasted opportunity," others see great possibilities.

Yep! The D10B and SU-2 are fraternal twins of different mothers.

What is really strange: even though they look slightly different, they both sound exactly the same.

 

[john61ct]

When used as a DDC with an optical connection to the RME ADI, the D10(B) can also help resolve grounding issues (via galvanic isolation).

D10B seems to be globally unavailable anymore

 

[Roland68]

D10B seems to be globally unavailable anymore

After all, the discussion was about a device the user already owned, not one he was planning to buy.
I suspect Topping discontinued it because the DX1 II offers significantly more functionality for the same price.
However, there is no shortage of DDCs—including much cheaper ones.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

After all, the discussion was about a device the user already owned, not one he was planning to buy.
I suspect Topping discontinued it because the DX1 II offers significantly more functionality for the same price.
However, there is no shortage of DDCs—including much cheaper ones.

I appreciated @john61ct's note that it was out of production. I wasn't aware of that, but I know not to recommend on future conversations.

And yea, just noticed the DX 11 based on another thread related to the D10B. For nearly everybody, that is a great (and perhaps even better) replacement.

Unfortunately (for me), it adds a knob on the front panel, which is my primary reasons for favoring both the D10B and the SU-2 — and yes, I know that I am the minority on this. But still sad when I lose one of the only balanced DAC products in the minimalist, flat panel category.

 

[john61ct]

The Popping Noise problem seems to not be a trivial one.

 

[VientoB]

The Popping Noise problem seems to not be a trivial one.

It is if you use balanced out or just use it as a DAC.

 

[sansenri]

That may be the best method for you, but for many others, it simply isn't.
They want to put a CD into their CD player and play it; for these people, ripping is of no interest whatsoever.
The fact that more and more new CD players are being released—combined with the rising prices for used units over the years—speaks volumes, just as the sales figures for physical media (CDs and vinyl records) do; these account for approximately 22.5% of total music industry revenue (including streaming).
People who continue to use—and want to use—physical media are therefore definitely not a niche market.

I agree with this, and it is actually my preferred way of listening to my CDs. I have way to many to rip, I had started the ripping task some 20 years ago, then the hard disk they were on broke... I cannot be bothered to start the ripping task all over again... so I have a dac connected to my Rotel cd player, and now I have just recovered a Technics cd player to go with my second system. The SU-2 seems like a perfect fit, I don't want to tinker with it, it just has to sit there, between my cd player and amp and do it's job.
I also tend to like the process where I physically choose the CD, open the box, put the cd in the player, push the play button (and I tend to dislike remotes!).
I'm probably growing old

 

[sansenri]

You’ve overlooked one very important point regarding this.
A great many people have lost their ripped music because their storage media failed.
The effort required for a reliable data backup system shouldn't be underestimated, and there is no such thing as 100% protection. On top of that, it becomes an ongoing cost factor over the years, as the media need to be replaced periodically.
And that still doesn't cover theft—laptops, computers, and storage devices are frequently taken during break-ins.

not only (I did lose my ripped files due to a storage media failing, of which I had not yet done backup...), I also know people who after they have ripped their CDs they have thrown out the physical media, due to growing lack of space at home! (I could never do that! very dangerous decision)

 

[Herbert]

It is very funny how much the ear can be deceived... and how much the mix of the source plays a role.
Got two SU-2 today.
The sources for playback are a Sony CDP-X5000 and a Nakamichi OMS-5E2. I modified the Nak with a better clock - needed for a diy SPDIF-transmitter anyway - and ripped out the original DAC section and replaced it with a ES9018 based Buffallo II Dac with IVY output stage from defunct Twisted Pear Audio - which btw should have an ESS hump.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58670-does-a-dacs-output-change-as-it-warms-up/

To test for gapless playback, I listened to Sting's "Bring on the Night". I bought the CD the week it hit the record-stores - 41 years ago, unbelieveable.
But back then, definately no dithering, this recording is true 16bit. I also listened to Mahler's Second Symphony, conducted by Eliahu Inbal, issued the same year, 1985.
The Sony and Nak were hooked to the SU-2 and I switched between inputs of my Nakamichi IA-3 Integrated Amp.

Problem is, the Sony is a tad louder than the SU-2, and the Nak is much louder.
But gosh, the SU-2 sounded harsh.
I tested both SU-2, of course they sound the same and very disapponting.
But then...
I put in Keith Jarrett Trio's "Still Live" - and the harshness was gone. Splendid, clear, pristine, upfront. "Still Live" is a very "warm", recording but like the "Bring on the Night" and Mahler' s Second Symphony purely 16 bit digital, all three CDs bear the DDD - Logo and were produced within a two year timeframe with 16 bit - so I would rather say, the SU-1 reveals the harshness of the mixes - not in their hardware but how the engineers approached the sound.
About the differences: Louder is always perceived warmer. And the Nak could sound warmer because I shielded the internal cabling based on balanced Mic-Cables - using Hot and Cold for signal and ground an the cables' shielding connected to the chassis. Though not being longer than 30cm, it might dampen the heights a tad...?

 

[Roland68]

It is very funny how much the ear can be deceived... and how much the mix of the source plays a role.
Got two SU-2 today.
The sources for playback are a Sony CDP-X5000 and a Nakamichi OMS-5E2. I modified the Nak with a better clock - needed for a diy SPDIF-transmitter anyway - and ripped out the original DAC section and replaced it with a ES9018 based Buffallo II Dac with IVY output stage from defunct Twisted Pear Audio - which btw should have an ESS hump.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58670-does-a-dacs-output-change-as-it-warms-up/

To test for gapless playback, I listened to Sting's "Bring on the Night". I bought the CD the week it hit the record-stores - 41 years ago, unbelieveable.
But back then, definately no dithering, this recording is true 16bit. I also listened to Mahler's Second Symphony, conducted by Eliahu Inbal, issued the same year, 1985.
The Sony and Nak were hooked to the SU-2 and I switched between inputs of my Nakamichi IA-3 Integrated Amp.

Problem is, the Sony is a tad louder than the SU-2, and the Nak is much louder.
But gosh, the SU-2 sounded harsh.
I tested both SU-2, of course they sound the same and very disapponting.
But then...
I put in Keith Jarrett Trio's "Still Live" - and the harshness was gone. Splendid, clear, pristine, upfront. "Still Live" is a very "warm", recording but like the "Bring on the Night" and Mahler' s Second Symphony purely 16 bit digital, all three CDs bear the DDD - Logo and were produced within a two year timeframe with 16 bit - so I would rather say, the SU-1 reveals the harshness of the mixes - not in their hardware but how the engineers approached the sound.
About the differences: Louder is always perceived warmer. And the Nak could sound warmer because I shielded the internal cabling based on balanced Mic-Cables - using Hot and Cold for signal and ground an the cables' shielding connected to the chassis. Though not being longer than 30cm, it might dampen the heights a tad...?

Please check whether those "shrill" recordings on the SU-2 were made using pre-emphasis.
It is highly likely that pre-emphasis mastering was used for both Sting’s *Bring on the Night* and the 1985 recording of Mahler’s Second Symphony with Eliahu Inbal.

After all, without de-emphasis, they sound shrill during playback—and that has absolutely nothing to do with the digital format itself.

 

[Calor]

For me the SU-2 is the perfect no-frills, inexpensive DAC to put behind a WiiM Ultra. Adds ESS9039 and balanced output.

The best output with Wiim Ultra is the USB option (tested with my actual DAC who have USB/spdif/Coaxial inputs) , how to use it with this one ?

 

[Herbert]

Please check whether those "shrill" recordings on the SU-2 were made using pre-emphasis.
It is highly likely that pre-emphasis mastering was used for both Sting’s *Bring on the Night* and the 1985 recording of Mahler’s Second Symphony with Eliahu Inbal.

After all, without de-emphasis, they sound shrill during playback—and that has absolutely nothing to do with the digital format itself.

Thanks for the hint, forgot to test that, and no, the Sting and Mahler do not have Pre-emphasis.
But Andreas Vollenweider's "Behind the Gardens" has!
Result: No De-Emphasis with the SU-2!
You can easily hear it without any guessing, as the curve is already active @5kHz. In early players, de-emphasis was even done with an analog filter in the output stage.
The source is my modified Nakamichi with an ES9018 DAC, Buffalo II with IVI III Output stage and a diyed conversion from the Naks" decoder IC CX23035
to a DIT4192 transmitter from TI.

Adding SPDIF Output to old Sony-Based Compact Disc Players - schematics attached

Hi to all, thanks to solderdude and others, I am extremely pleased how well support in the DIY section of this forum works, especially for noobs like me. To give at least a little bit back, here is a schematic for the DAC-Nerds, developed 12 years ago with the help of people @ DIYAUDIO. This...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The CX23035 is from Sony, it was in EVERY 2nd to 3rd generation Player in the eighties which used Sony electronics and so to say a standard IC.
It is in the Accuphase DP-70 NTTY tested as well as in the D-50, Sony's first portable.
The CX23035 has a dedicated Emphasis pin that communicates with the DIT4192 - and the old ES9018 "understands" the signal! (Or was programmed to understand it)
Same bad result with the Sony CDP-X5000 from 1995, where SPDIF became a standard output of the Decoder IC.
The Sony (1995) and Nak (1985) with Buffalo II DAC (2010) play the disc correctly - the SU-2 (2026) does not.

Bummer, as the SU-2 is meant for standalone devices like players...

EDIT: Also checked the SU-1, which has an AK4493 Dac - also no De-emphasis implemented.

 

[Roland68]

Thanks for the hint, forgot to test that, and no, the Sting and Mahler do not have Pre-emphasis.
But Andreas Vollenweider's "Behind the Gardens" has!
Result: No De-Emphasis with the SU-2!
You can easily hear it without any guessing, as the curve is already active @5kHz. In early players, de-emphasis was even done with an analog filter in the output stage.
The source is my modified Nakamichi with an ES9018 DAC, Buffalo II with IVI III Output stage and a diyed conversion from the Naks" decoder IC CX23035
to a DIT4192 transmitter from TI.

Adding SPDIF Output to old Sony-Based Compact Disc Players - schematics attached

Hi to all, thanks to solderdude and others, I am extremely pleased how well support in the DIY section of this forum works, especially for noobs like me. To give at least a little bit back, here is a schematic for the DAC-Nerds, developed 12 years ago with the help of people @ DIYAUDIO. This...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The CX23035 is from Sony, it was in EVERY 2nd to 3rd generation Player in the eighties which used Sony electronics and so to say a standard IC.
It is in the Accuphase DP-70 NTTY tested as well as in the D-50, Sony's first portable.
The CX23035 has a dedicated Emphasis pin that communicates with the DIT4192 - and the old ES9018 "understands" the signal! (Or was programmed to understand it)
Same bad result with the Sony CDP-X5000 from 1995, where SPDIF became a standard output of the Decoder IC.
The Sony (1995) and Nak (1985) with Buffalo II DAC (2010) play the disc correctly - the SU-2 (2026) does not.

Bummer, as the SU-2 is meant for standalone devices like players...

That surprises me, because mine have it (both are first pressings).
Many modern DACs can't do that.
That’s why I have a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 1 (the first version by John Westlake) in my system. The nice thing is that it indicates both when the de-emphasis bit is set and the presence of copy protection.