SMSL SU-2: a dumb, wasted opportunity

[john61ct]

I have to believe the network based AoIP protocols that ensure clock sync are used for good reason in pro environments

SMPTE ST 2110, Ravenna, AES67, Dante, Q-LAN

My quandary (besides cost) is that I want RPi being fed 6 (or more) **different** analog signals to stay in sync.

I'm starting to think that may inherently be impossible, and in any case SlimProto is no substitute.

 

[Frunse]

So what happen if you are using wireles Speaker, how the will synced??? Every Speaker has its own clock that must be horrible than !

Dynaudio has Wireless or blutooth Speaker, also consumer stuff, how they will fix this Problem???

My RME Card is on his way, so may be next day here, than i start some Measuring soon as possible!

If this won't work my Project will become realy Expensive and i need to delay it till i have enough Money for an HAPI MK3 LOOL

On the other Hand using

VanityPRO + RME HDSPe AES + HAPI MK3​

All synced with Wordclock must be Highend rock solid !
I wisch VanityPRO has eARC but for that i have the option with HDFury in Front of VanityPRO for TV injection.
Or an HDMI Switcher with eARC

 

[Frunse]

Answere from RME Guy i asked :

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...synchronizing-two-usb-dacs.54404/post-2607255

He say it should work with SMSL SU-2

 

[john61ct]

So what happen if you are using wireles Speaker, how the will synced???

...

Dynaudio has Wireless or blutooth Speaker

I would never do that.

> Every Speaker has its own clock

None of mine do, every one will remain passive, in both senses.

The system is active, where DSP is required, otherwise analog.

The older RME units look great, especially Digiface USB + ADAT converters up to 32 ports all on one clock

but pricey for me.

The older RME "cards" can go very cheaply on eBay but seem to never include the proprietary cable required to work!


> HAPI MK3

I could never do that, would take years depriving my kids of fresh F&V. Unless I won the lotto...

 

[john61ct]

Relevant

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As good value for PC I/O as Echo Audiofire 12 ?

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PocketADC + D10s + REW for Analog Audio Measurements

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[Frunse]

I will USE AES because you could use up to 192kHz without Chanel decimation at all, 16 analogue Outs, up to 48 Chanels with 3 Cards If ATMOS Rendering needed full aktiv

And i can route one AES Cable to one 2Way Box with one SMS SU-2 DAC and Amp close to that Speaker as possible, that was the Plan!

If i need to use such 16 Chanel DAC, i need to route 2x XLR Cabel with Power Cord to one Box, but also duable.

First option was to use that USB Digiface to ADAT (with an ferofisch 16 AE or so DAC) but i dont want USB involved and i don't like this Chanel decimation stuff for different Samplerates!!!

I have already an running system with an 7.1 HDMI to i2S Card to RPI5 to MOTU UL Mk5 with an second MOTU on ADAT and SPDIF Out (to first Motu) at all 16 Chanel Out
with latency compensated in CamilaDSP on each Out!!!

But RPI is known for some Chanel Swap Probllems on I2S in and i don't know if this was fixed already. i am still using this system only Stereo full aktive but i was testing it already with injecting an Blueray film with 7.1 and all Outs was working with FIR FIlter on al Chanels only 20% Processingpower was used on RPI 5!

Still need to build more HYPEX AMPS up for Surround Test with Speaker.

Next big step / Idea was that HDSPe AES Card if this will work i am in an Software Surround DSP full aktive Heaven

But yes is more expensive!

 

[john61ct]

FYI in English it's Active. I used to teach TEFL in Germany let me know if such corrections are welcome.

You do you, just because I give opinions, they're for everyone to agree or not, does not mean you need to be defensive.

Like 192khz is pointless overkill, and does nothing except increase DSP latency and grossly reduce host processor capacity e.g. tap count

 

[Frunse]

Sorry i won't be defensive but english isn't my Motherlanguage and i don'nt ever spoke english in real Live only some scoolenglish.

I don't say that i will use 192kHz for me 96kHz is the sweet spot and that how i use CamillaDSP already all Chanels Out with 96kHz

I can't here the difference between 96 and 192 kHz at all (I tried it offten but need to say i am not an BAT ) The Bit number matters more so 24 or 32 Bit makes more sense than 192kHz ) but between 48 and 96kHz you could here a bit off diference on Hight details let say and the Digital Filter problems on DACs go up into the higher Frequency Domain so less Audible to Analogue Frequncy at 18 or 20 kHz.

Studios runned already long time at 96kHz and that was absolutly ok, but than the Industrie want to selll new Stuff an invited 192kHz, But 96kHz 24Bit was already supirior above 16Bit CD Stuff. I have a lot AUDIO DVD recordet at 96kHz and SACD's.

But i guess it is an good idea to feed DTS True HD Master with orig. 192kHz in to that RME Card and than downsamle it to 96kHz thrue CamillaDSP befor the Processing Started.

and Outs are always at 96kHz thats my Plan.

BTW, what means FYI ??? or TEFL???

 

[kazuviking]

Pulled the trigger on the SU-2. Before you start i got the "HiFi" cables because i like the look of them.

 

[Frunse]

Cool , i ordered my AES Kabel 10Meter and have a lot of Connectors already for selfbuilding the Cables like i always do.

https://www.thomann.de/de/stairville_ak_highflex_power_combi_cable.htm

and

https://www.thomann.de/de/sommer_cable_binary_234_dmx.htm

I use always this Brand Connectors:

https://www.thomann.de/de/neutrik_nc_3_mxxb.htm
https://www.thomann.de/de/neutrik_nc_3_fxxb.htm

 

[Roland68]

Pulled the trigger on the SU-2. Before you start i got the "HiFi" cables because i like the look of them.
View attachment 536215

Just a quick heads-up: using that optical cable runs the risk of damaging the Toslink ports on your devices, as they are not designed to accommodate metal plugs—definitely not a good idea.
Furthermore, the gold plating right at the junction with the POF fiber optic cable can lead to reflections and introduce jitter.

 

[Frunse]

BTW i am Single 56 Years old no Wife no Kids and lot's off time but not the possability to work 8 hour the Day so i am retiered.
All i do need's a bit of Time depends on how i feel me. And how much Medicine i was taken LOOOOL

I prefer ASE because there is no Hassel at all up to 100Meter. Using goldpalted connectors and you are fine.

I have some not gold plated and they got dark black after some time. Throwed them away.

Also like RCA Spdif over optical with an cheap RG 58 or 59 Cabel not sure for now (75Ohm) Coaxial Kabel and Gold Plated Conectors. BNC i would prefere but consumer Elektronic don't use it.

 

[kazuviking]

Cool , i ordered my AES Kabel 10Meter and have a lot of Connectors already for selfbuilding the Cables like i always do.

I make my own cables but sourcing the same parts would've costed way more than buying a complete cable.

Furthermore, the gold plating right at the junction with the POF fiber optic cable can lead to reflections and introduce jitter.

I'm 100% sure wont be able to hear it but if it causes issues then i can remove the plating without issues.

 

[Roland68]

I'm 100% sure wont be able to hear it but if it causes issues then i can remove the plating without issues.

The biggest problem is that the metal plugs damage the socket, and over time, the plugs no longer sit snugly or straight. Especially because most of the sockets don't have the quality of the original Toshiba parts.
You should not attempt to scrape off the gold plating, as doing so could also damage the POF cable. In any case, there is an extremely durable nickel layer underneath.

 

[kazuviking]

The biggest problem is that the metal plugs damage the socket, and over time, the plugs no longer sit snugly or straight.

Its just temporary till i found an I2S to AES/EBU adapter for cheap or make my own board.

You should not attempt to scrape off the gold plating,

Have some solution to remove gold plating from jewelry.

 

[Frunse]

Here an Guy tried the same i want to do but he used an LYNX AES PC Card and used it only Stereo with Minidsp AMPS and AES Input

He goes with one AES Kabel to the first Box AES in and than with an aditional AES Cabel to the next Box from AES Out.

And the first Box is synced to Left Audio and the second Box is synced to the Right Audio!

But this you can't use for an 7.1 Setup this way, only 2 Chanel transport over one AES Signal / Cabel!

Also HYPEX has such Plate AMPS with an AES in and path thrue Out:

https://www.soundimports.eu/de/hype...3Al7_IBbvpjW-Kl20VebO-cIj22NVOn8aAkzvEALw_wcB

How you will get them Synced for 7.1 ? No 10Mhz Masterclock in Aviable there?

So i gues my stuff wil work without any Problems, next day the CARD arived and then lets test my 3 SU-2 Dacs with an 4 Chanel Scope.

we will see if "Huston" got trouble or not

Here my Concept:


5 Speaker and that 2 Subs are ready 7 MC122NP and 2 MC250NP Bought so far.

The Mainspeaker wil become a new biger Version with Waveguide on that AM25 and 2x Scanspeak 18W8434G00 Dapolito, or Waveguide and 2x 18W Side by Side, not sure Yet.

Also 2 Ripol to build 4 * 12" 8Ohm Speaker Bought alreadythat will replace the 2x 10" Subs in the Future. To much to do

 

[Frunse]

Test Done, no Phase drift between 2 DACS on different AES Digital Out's on that RME CARD, rock Solid @ 96kHz 1kHz rectangel used with REW Generator routedt to AES OUT 1, 2, 3, 4:

Used RME own ASIO Driver, not "ASIO for all"

On AES 1 Out i had my HeadfoneAmp / DAC Pioneer U-05 and on AES 2 first SMSL SU-2 DAC compared to AES 3 and AES 4, absolutly no visable changing in Phase.



The only ting, with that DACs you can't use different Outputfilter in SABRE DAC Chip like on more Expensive ones!

But for that Price

On that Rectangle You can See a bit of Ringing!

 

[john61ct]

Test Done, no Phase drift between 2 DACS on different AES Digital Out's on that RME CARD,

How many hours did you run the test enabling the output to start drifting?

I believe AES and S/PDIF do the same in-signal clock-master behaviour, so from that POV yes the fact the receiving devices clocks are drifting should not affect the signal timing remaining in sync.

Of course, if the processes those devices are running take varying times to complete, THAT will have an impact, right?

 

[Frunse]

I have measured 2 MOTU Interfaces connected with USB to an RPI5 and you see immediately the Phase shift between this devices, but USB works Asyncrone so no wonder.
I didn't think thats there is a Drift after hours if nothing change after 30 minutes, They get his Clock from one Source and that why they are in Sync.

 

[john61ct]

Yes USB is async so inherently susceptible to clocks drifting.

But I've seen posts talking about even identical devices drifting so slightly, just a few samples' worth over hours.

Feeding from Master via AES (or S/PDIF, today I learned derived from AES) may be perfect, or maybe just "good enough" I dunno.

Google says neither is really as robust as BNC Word Clock in a "star" topology (as opposed to daisy-chaining) with two or more Slaves