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SMSL SU-10 DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 12 3.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 14 3.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 56 15.8%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 273 76.9%

  • Total voters
    355

PeteL

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Are there too many SMSL reviews on ASR? I don't know. I'm happy to see them.
I don't mind them, but the reality is that Topping, SMSL are really eager to send their products for review here, for a reason, because the SINAD race is their bread and butter. And no I don't go for the conspiration theories and all that fun stuff, but the other guys that present products that may bring to the table just as great sounding products, often more useful, or reaching for different design goals than pure 6th decimal THD+N, have very limited interest in this channel. It's not a fault of Amir but this is what this website is about, we should not think that what we see here is a true representation of the need of the customers in a larger scale, or what constitute good, better, best for the rest of the music lovers outside this community based on a Sinad chart. Nothing wrong with it, but it's just what is evaluated here and it talks to people that have an interest in that. Nothing wrong in having an interest in that, but it's a small segment of what the general public is looking for in a product.
 

Bob from Florida

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There is a way to measure lower noise levels using a noise amplifier. And then subtracting that from the measured results. I just don't know if it is the right thing to do beyond the point we are now.
Given that this product is well into the "inaudible" range, I cannot imagine the usefulness of further delineation using the above technique. Granted, it would be an "intellectual" exercise - which has a range of values depending on ones viewpoint.
If I may make a couple of suggestions. Show an "inaudible" line on your ratings chart - where all products to the left have measurements better than we can hear.
Secondly, introduce a "reliability" metric - if possible. Reliability data would be extremely valuable. Where to get it is a very good question. The OEM knows this based on warranty claims and repairs. I can see an OEM sharing this data if it reflected well on the product. Relying on end user experiences can be good or bad - need a large sample set for any reasonable accuracy.
 

GWolfman

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There is a way to measure lower noise levels using a noise amplifier. And then subtracting that from the measured results. I just don't know if it is the right thing to do beyond the point we are now.
That's similar to the E1DA Cosmos APU, correct?
 

FINFET

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I voted golfing panther out of my respect for record breaking SINAD and good enginerring but I find myself cheer less and less each time and I guess so be a lot of you. For newcomers, I'll recommend cheaper and older models from the just-a-dac DAC category. You can get the same conversion quality, functionality with less than half the price.
Oh, unless you need a reference DAC for measurements of your ADCs. Get one of these sota DACs and enjoy!
 

tomchris

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Congratulations! Amazing performance. I really applaud the achievement. I think we are seeing the limits regarding SOTA performance.

Next play would be entering the DSP market. I know it is a long shot, but it would be quite a feat if SMSL and Topping made a DSP box disrupting the current offerings.
 

StuartC

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so out of curiosity I just went to the Review Index and filtered by DAC and viewed the last 50 by date (most recent entry as of today was 16th Aug).

18 of the last 50 DACs are either Topping or SMSL (Loxjie and Sabaj included).

Now I'm as happy to see 120db SINAD numbers as the next person, but can we take a breather from their products for a bit? Yes, they measure well. Yes, they are cost effective. Yes, I own one of them. I just want to see less of them and more of everything else being sent in (I would volunteer, but shipping from the UK isn't sensible)
 

777

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Please read the the thread's about ess hump and the datasheed of the 9038 you can learn something.:) before you state this.

You do not understand... that trim pots set 0v at the output. In fact if I remember, they set 1,5v at the input to cancel offset voltage. Without that pots, you must use high-pass filter, with C series.
 

JayGilb

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Amir, thanks for another review.

Lots of i/o options on this dac at a reasonable price.
Long since past the point of audible improvements on this class of electronics, but it's still fun to see the price/form factor changes.
 

Koeitje

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I don't mind them, but the reality is that Topping, SMSL are really eager to send their products for review here, for a reason, because the SINAD race is their bread and butter. And no I don't go for the conspiration theories and all that fun stuff, but the other guys that present products that may bring to the table just as great sounding products, often more useful, or reaching for different design goals than pure 6th decimal THD+N, have very limited interest in this channel. It's not a fault of Amir but this is what this website is about, we should not think that what we see here is a true representation of the need of the customers in a larger scale, or what constitute good, better, best for the rest of the music lovers outside this community based on a Sinad chart. Nothing wrong with it, but it's just what is evaluated here and it talks to people that have an interest in that. Nothing wrong in having an interest in that, but it's a small segment of what the general public is looking for in a product.
so out of curiosity I just went to the Review Index and filtered by DAC and viewed the last 50 by date (most recent entry as of today was 16th Aug).

18 of the last 50 DACs are either Topping or SMSL (Loxjie and Sabaj included).

Now I'm as happy to see 120db SINAD numbers as the next person, but can we take a breather from their products for a bit? Yes, they measure well. Yes, they are cost effective. Yes, I own one of them. I just want to see less of them and more of everything else being sent in (I would volunteer, but shipping from the UK isn't sensible)


Oh no, a company that designs state of the art D/A converters and headphone amplifiers wants to put its product out there? There is nothing stopping other brands sending in their stuff, but they don't do that. Why? Because they have everything to lose, because their products most likely don't feature the technical excellence we expect these days. Of course there are exceptions such as RME and Benchmark, but most companies don't market their products based on performance. They prefer What Hifi to print a sponsored advertisement, sorry...meant to say review.
 

BR52

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You do not understand... that trim pots set 0v at the output. In fact if I remember, they set 1,5v at the input to cancel offset voltage. Without that pots, you must use high-pass filter, with C series.
no I do not understand! You are always talking about your remembering.... Set your ref voltage to at 1.5V. And enyoy. :facepalm:
:facepalm:
 

BR52

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no I do not understand! You are always talking about your remembering.... Set your ref voltage to at 1.5V. And enyoy. :facepalm:
:facepalm:
Pls read and do the calc.
 

Attachments

  • ES9038PRO_Datasheet_v3_6-1923511.pdf
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Jeromeof

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Given where we are with the current quality of DAC's (mostly because of Amir and ASR) it is almost like Amir should have a 'sidekick' who does triage on any new DAC's.
Basically, save Amir's time. Maybe this person would do a quick SINAD test and reports one of 3 outcomes based on it's value:
1. Fails - audibly significant - nothing more to see - name and shame the manufacturer
2. Passes - so inaudible different than other good DAC's - no more testing required
3. Top performers - maybe these ones should then get the full Amir treatment (to be officially named in the top 10 etc)

So, this might be like Amir standing at the end of a marathon race and congratulating the first few past the post but then going to look at a different race. :D
 

Walter

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There is a way to measure lower noise levels using a noise amplifier. And then subtracting that from the measured results. I just don't know if it is the right thing to do beyond the point we are now.
I vote no, as it would just incentivize manufacturers to pursue a higher spec that can essentially never make an audible difference.
 

Billy Budapest

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Some people are talking about a SINAD “race” but that does not seem to be a real thing, or at the very least not something noteworthy. Going back decades, manufacturers have touted THD numbers in their marketing materials. Touting SINAD numbers is the same thing, albeit more useful as it incorporates noise measurements in addition to distortion. There have always been AV companies whose aim is to push the state of the art. So there is nothing new here.
 

BR52

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I vote no, as it would just incentivize manufacturers to pursue a higher spec that can essentially never make an audible difference.
This sinad race has for me an advantage, because if you use the DAC with digital volume the noise floor is better with lower output levels as well and this can be audibly.
 

Billy Budapest

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I believe the ES9039PRO is pin compatible with the 9038, so I am wondering why SMSL did not go with the new chip. It’s just a matter of time for ESS to ramp up production.
 
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