SMSL SU-10 DAC Review

[Trell]

You have confused something or made a mistake in the forum.There are a lot of different DSPs in the professional sector.Choose any one to your taste.
And do not try to put a bunch of unnecessary DSP functions in one box and force it to buy.Look at the professional equipment for the recording studir you don't understand the difference.
So go and spend $250 on a separate DSP, this is the right solution for you and connect to your old DAC.

You mean, like from RME?

The RME ADI-2 DAC came out after the Pro model targeting the mastering section was shown to be an unexpected success in hifi, and does not have ADC like the Pro model as it targets the hifi market. Eventually even the Pro got a remote.

 

[Trell]

A lot of people refused to buy RME 2 only because of the inflated price, just because there are few people who need DSP functions.Here would be an RME at a normal price of $ 250 and without a DSP, that's fine.

 

[Rover]

You mean, like from RME?

The RME ADI-2 DAC came out after the Pro model targeting the mastering section was shown to be an unexpected success in hifi, and does not have ADC like the Pro model as it targets the hifi market. Eventually even the Pro got a remote.

DSP does not belong to the HI FI market.And what is written there for advertising purposes is the business of marketers.Without a DSP for $250 RME2 DAC.

 

[Trell]

DSP does not belong to the HI FI market.And what is written there for advertising purposes is the business of marketers.Without a DSP for $250 DAC.

 

[Rover]

You are probably closer to the professional sector of the recording studio.You are imposing DSP too aggressively on the forum.

 

[Trell]

You are probably closer to the professional sector of the recording studio.You are imposing DSP too aggressively on the forum.

Really? You’ve been a member of ASR for over two years with close to a hundred posts and still have missed that DSP is extensively used in hifi?

Room EQ is common, PEQ for adjusting head phones to taste is another. Bass/treble tone controls is very handy at times as well, depending on the recording, of course. For RME there is Dynamic Loudness when listening at lower volume level, Audyssey call that feature DynamicEQ, and so forth.

Btw, I’m not part of the audio industry except as a consumer.

 

[fin]

We all agree that solving a solved problem again and again is not so cool now but that's the thing they are really good at in the market and that's how they feed their staff.
RME's been creating professional PCI digital audio card since like 1997 while SMSL's into business like ten years ago. Give them some time and they'll figure it out.
I use Equalizer APO to correct EQ for my room and headphones, which even support some simple VST plugins so not so thirsty for onboard DSP resources.

It's not quite relavent but I believe that rather than conventional DSP, GPUs might play an important role in audio world as more and more audio related applications are using neural networks and deep learning techniques. You may be able to separate voice from the music in real time to do certain enhancement for certain part; There are algorithms utilizing ray tracing unit on GPU to calculate wave reflections for some real time sound simulation in a virtual scene. Save some money for a big giant RTX card might be surprisingly future-proof

 

[okok]

have @amirm received the cheaper but newer su-9 pro?

 

[Gio]

Dear SMSL, please remove the MQA feature and cut in half the price. That's it.

 

[Rover]

Really? You’ve been a member of ASR for over two years with close to a hundred posts and still have missed that DSP is extensively used in hifi?

Room EQ is common, PEQ for adjusting head phones to taste is another. Bass/treble tone controls is very handy at times as well, depending on the recording, of course. For RME there is Dynamic Loudness when listening at lower volume level, Audyssey call that feature DynamicEQ, and so forth.

Btw, I’m not part of the audio industry except as a consumer.

I understood you.For you, a rare technique from the 80s.With a bunch of knobs to ruin the original sound .It's humor.

 

[Rahan]

The future is on the way. Adi2 isn't alone. Don't forget the minidsp flex for exemple. I think SMSL should propose a model with dsp. A kind of su8 with dsp would be fine by me.

I understood you.For you, a rare technique from the 80s.With a bunch of knobs to ruin the original sound .


View attachment 238982

the old idea that many knobs are gonna ruined the sound... Don't walk into a studio, you'll be freaked out

 

[Rover]

The future is on the way. Adi2 isn't alone. Don't forget the minidsp flex for exemple. I think SMSL should propose a model with dsp. A kind of su8 with dsp would be fine by me.

There is already an ADI 2 why do you need SU8. Everything sounds the same according to you.
Go to the topic Topping and Gustard and say the same thing.

 

[srkbear]

You have confused something or made a mistake in the forum.There are a lot of different DSPs in the professional sector.Choose any one to your taste.
And do not try to put a bunch of unnecessary DSP functions in one box and force it to buy.Look at the professional equipment for the recording studir you don't understand the difference.
So go and spend $250 on a separate DSP.

Thanks, I feel much more abstract now. I’ve been way to preoccupied with facts, thank goodness you were here!

 

[mdsimon2]

A lot of people in this thread asking for Topping/SMSL to dive headfirst into a market they have no history or infrastructure in, and invest huge development costs to create applications and firmware for EQ/ARC control, etc, and maintain hyper-competitive pricing.

What we should really be asking for is a TOTL ADC/DAC upgrade of a Minidsp SHD/Flex etc with a resistor-ladder-controlled master volume output section to maximize performance at lower levels. Maybe give the option to throw a headphone amp in there and have the jack sensor trigger a DSP profile switch/bypass so you can go from a Dirac speaker profile to a headphone corrective EQ.

None of these things would add significant costs (relative to what a company like SMSL/Topping would need to spend/increase product MSRP to develop and break into a completely different product type from what they have been making). And all of us that are already used to an intuitive and proven company software and community ecosystem would need zero adjustment period.

Another idea is an RME model with a Dirac license and another two DAC channels, and the features I mentioned above, but I'd assume that would probably cost more/be more difficult to pull off than if MiniDSP did it.

I find it absurd that there is ANY DAC over $300 with adjustable output level that does not have analog volume attenuation to keep it from nuking S/N at low levels. If you want to make the argument that it is inaudible, etc, that's one thing. But these DAC's have been fighting tooth and nail for 0.25 of an inaudible SINAD point just to overlook the average consumer that is using it to drive powered speakers or power amps is going to set it to -35db in the digital domain and all of that bleeding edge performance gets thrown out of the window.

I would not be surprised if my ancient $150 used Emotiva XDA-2 that has trickled down and ended up at my desk in the office would actually would outperform these SINAD-race dacs at low output levels, solely because it has a digitally controlled analog resistor ladder output stage.

I agree that it is more likely that miniDSP will continue to develop products with better analog performance than it is that Topping/SMSL will develop a DAC with DSP. And they certainly have been doing this as everything since the SHD has been a step change compared to their early offerings both in terms of analog performance and usability (i.e display). Topping/SMSL also seem to have such poor technical support that I cannot imagine them producing more complex products and assuming the additional burden of supporting those products.

However I think you are a bit off on analog volume control. One of the few reasons to have DACs with such good SNR / SINAD is that you can attenuate digitally and still retain good SNR at low levels. Apart from a few very low noise preamps (Benchmark LA4, I would say Topping Pre90 but the low balanced input impedance is a joke) it is almost guaranteed that a digital volume control will give you better SNR at attenuated levels. Your XDA-2 for example has a spec'd SNR of 113 dB (presumably at 2 V nominal output). If you run the numbers compared to a modern DAC with 120+ dB SNR at 2 V I think you will be disappointed even at attenuated levels.

For example plot below models system SNR for a DAC with 120 dB SNR at 2 V coupled with a very high performance amplifier (Audiophonics HPA-S400ET in medium gain mode), blue trace uses digital volume control and orange trace adds an analog volume control with 113 dB SNR at 2 V. Digital volume control wins at all volume levels because the residual noise from the analog volume control is so much worse.

Michael

 

[Garrincha]

Well I listen to plenty of classical and jazz as well. I just mostly listen to stuff without words so it doesn't distract me while I work. I've listened to almost all the classical from any half decent artist on Spotify already.. House and trance music is also good for focusing. Especially things like Goa Psytrance.

Luckily this thread is not about music taste, otherwise I would have made a comment.

 

[srkbear]

I understood you.For you, a rare technique from the 80s.With a bunch of knobs to ruin the original sound .It's humor.


View attachment 238982

I don’t know what you’re up to with all the smiley faces peppered in between the inscrutable nonsense. I suspect that English is not your native language, so please do not take this as any attempt to humiliate you on those grounds, because I would never stoop to such a thing—it’s truly your stated opinions and positions, and condescension to members who have way more time on this forum and expertise (meaning not me) that’s getting a bit tiresome.

 

[srkbear]

have @amirm received the cheaper but newer su-9 pro?

The SU-9 Pro just dropped either yesterday or today, so I highly doubt it. Although I am hopeful that SMSL sends him one, because I’ve yet to see a DAC measured with the ES9039pro chip on board, and their own measurements suggest a SINAD of 127…

ESS Technology introduces the new ES9039PRO Flagship DAC chip

ESS Technology today introduced the new SABRE® ES9039PRO Flagship Digital-to-Analogue Converter (DAC) chip.

porta-fi.com

 

[AdamG]

Several Warnings handed out and Thread Reply Bans. Dial back the aggression and be respectful or don’t post. People piss you off, hit the Ignor button and move on.

Please and thank you for your support and understanding.

Anymore MQA nonsense and you will get a post deleted and perm thread ban.

 

[G-rig]

One afterthought: With all due respect for the performance, the price seems a bit high, approaching RME and such...

I feel the same way, it's getting very expensive for a not so well known chinese brand, with improvements you may or may not be able to hear.

 

[respice finem]

I feel the same way, it's getting very expensive for a not so well known chinese brand, with improvements you may or may not be able to hear.

How well known, is secondary for me, I tend to see stuff (not only audio stuff) in a purely utilitarian way.
What (in terms of performance, but also functionality) am I getting for how much money?