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SMSL SA400 Power Amp - 230 WPC into 4 Ohms

jokan

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@bud947 i would say you made the right choice with your purchase of the sabaj a20.
 

Toku

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The SMSL VMV A1 and SA400 have just been released the other day, but it seems that the next SMSL VMV A2 is scheduled to be released.

The content seems to be a model that extends the digital input of the SA400's AX5689 chip.
It is the measurement data by the wolf.
https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/smsl-vmv-a2-amp/
 

bud947

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@Toku now I regret my purchase :oops:. The measurements of this SMSL VMV A1 are really excellent ! with 100W@8R if its correctly priced, this will be a huge success.
 

Toku

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The continuous market launch of SMSL's DA-9, SA400, VMV A1 and VMV A2 and amplifiers is incomprehensible to me.
Even the DA-9 is still defective and cannot be said to be a complete product. I would like you to carry out quality evaluation tests for each and every product more properly than for the continuous introduction of new products.
 

Premonition

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The SMSL VMV A1 and SA400 have just been released the other day, but it seems that the next SMSL VMV A2 is scheduled to be released.

The content seems to be a model that extends the digital input of the SA400's AX5689 chip.
It is the measurement data by the wolf.
https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/smsl-vmv-a2-amp/
这是一台集成了解码、前级、后级、蓝牙、低音炮输出<—-?????的设备……壳子是SMSL VMV新系列的家族设计,但是比A1和D1se整个大了一圈,整体外观我没啥可以多说的了,就吐个槽—-这货有风扇=。=(虽然似乎是温控的)。好了,开始测量:
This is a unit that has the functions of a DAC, Preamp, Poweramp, Bluetooth, Subwooferout<-?????..... The casing is SMSL VMV's new family design, but it is a size larger than the A1 and D1se. There ain't much to say from the looks of it, other than cursing that it has an inbuilt fan (though it seems to be temperature controlled). Alright, let's start measuring:

这台机器是我很欣赏的,虽然我不会买(不喜欢D类),但是这是一个完成度很高的产品,在一定程度上我觉得是SMSL未来的希望……
I admire this unit very much, but I wouldn't buy it(dislike Class D). However, this is a very well-rounded product, to a certain degree I believe it is SMSL's hope for the future.....


Seems like a pretty interesting product, no mention of price here. Almost 8db difference between ch1 and ch2 at 100w, wonder why? Not that we'd be using that much power anyway?
 

Toku

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Seems like a pretty interesting product, no mention of price here. Almost 8db difference between ch1 and ch2 at 100w, wonder why? Not that we'd be using that much power anyway?
Looking at the graph of 8R-THD+N-Ratio-vs-Measured-Level, when it exceeds 20W, the distortion of Rch-Lch begins to differ, and when it exceeds 80W, the difference becomes large. When the output increases further, the distortion increases at once and the characteristics of Rch-Lch overlap. The difference in the part around 100W is the difference in the level region where the distortion is sufficiently low, so it will not actually be a problem.
 

razamanaz

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Intresting, he tested usb-input or line-input, we can expect worse performance through the input line if ADC is used
 

jokan

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I have intentionally not taken any specific stance on this amplifier until I see more reviews and see some measurements though I don't think that SMSL an affordable and high performing amplifier manufacturer necessarily needs to step into this price bracket. What concerns me the most at this time with SMSL is the sheer number of products that they have been introducing and announcing when many of us have had some Quality Control concerns with their existing new models. For a relatively small company to introduce so many new products without hiring and training new assembly line workers would lead to QC issues.

I will reserve all judgement about this amplifier until I see multiple reviews from not just ASR but multiple forums. It is a big concern for me that they are increasing SKU's and not discontinuing older items at the same rapid rate. I am a huge fan of SMSL for their cost/performance ratio. On top of that I've not had a single SMSL unit fail since the very first SMSL amplifier I bought many, many years ago that I modified until I went too far with the modifications and eventually smoked the amplifier which was my own doing.

The information that is slowly coming out seems to be a little conflicting about the amplifier for a multitude of reasons. Some state that the AX5689 is the "star" of this amplifier but there are rather troubling words used in the description such as latency on what appears to be a Class D 8 channel amplifier controller. Latency isn't a word I would expect to read on the first page of any audio device unless latency was a huge issue in previous methods of amplifier control. Why it needed to be Class-D is another mystery to me along with the SNR which isn't particularly high in today's world. The chip has a variety of control structures built in but the information about the systems are not forthcoming.

Like I've stated, I will reserve all judgement before I read multiple reviews from multiple sources. I simply cannot trust the first youtube review that came out a couple of days ago.

I have a feeling this will be a controversial amplifier for SMSL until positive, glowing reviews start to roll in in multiples.
 

Mike-48

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What concerns me is that it makes a whine (tonal noise) audible to Amir at 1 ft distance. Audibility will of course depend on the background noise level of the room and the listener's acuity. As a rule, I think manufacturers should make audio components that do not whine, buzz, hiss, or hum audibly. (It's not just budget manufacturers -- I returned an expensive power amp whose "silent" fan was plainly audible to me from the listening seat.)
 

michman66

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Happy I found this thread. I took delivery of a DA9. At 46 volume setting I started to heard distortion from the right speaker, and Vandersteen 1ci's. It was loud, but not ear bleeding but good. Some music tracks are lower volume than others. So I'm thinking coukd this be clipping or a defective unit? I'm thinking how would the 400 in this conversation be vs DA9. I sent a message to APOS to return this unit. My ask here is for your kind opinion based on sound quality in general. I'm a seasoned musician I feel I can easily make discernments in equipment. At 249.00 the DA9 is crazy good. Now a twist. I also took delivery of an ifi itube2. I waited 2 weeks to stick it in the chain. At 46 volume no distortion anymore. Interesting. I've not tried to go past 46, I will today and see. The distortion I heard with itube2 not between the dac (D50S), might have been input clipping. Just not sure if I have a defective unit. Back to my ask, I DA9 and 400 in sound quality. Thank you Otto
 

Notbn

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What concerns me is that it makes a whine (tonal noise) audible to Amir at 1 ft distance. Audibility will of course depend on the background noise level of the room and the listener's acuity. As a rule, I think manufacturers should make audio components that do not whine, buzz, hiss, or hum audibly. (It's not just budget manufacturers -- I returned an expensive power amp whose "silent" fan was plainly audible to me from the listening seat.)

Have an issue similar to this with my DA9. Powered on with nothing connected the unit makes a high frequency squealing noise that changes with screen brightness, but never goes away. Sounds very similar to coil whine from a graphics card or PSU. The noise I have seems like it has nothing to do with the power supply side, as it doesn't change when switching outlets all around the house.
 

mononoaware

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Have an issue similar to this with my DA9. Powered on with nothing connected the unit makes a high frequency squealing noise that changes with screen brightness, but never goes away.

I have this exact same experience with the SMSL SU-8 DAC, but only occasionally.
The unit sometimes emits a high pitched whine (sound directly from DAC), and yes it changes if I adjust the menu with the remote (e.g. changing the volume causes the whine to change in pitch, then after time-out when the display goes back to what it was showing, it goes back to the previous pitch).
Sometimes I turn on the DAC and there is only silence.
It is odd and I remember reading somewhere it could be caused by the display itself.
 

mononoaware

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I have this exact same experience with the SMSL SU-8 DAC, but only occasionally.
The unit sometimes emits a high pitched whine (sound directly from DAC), and yes it changes if I adjust the menu with the remote (e.g. changing the volume causes the whine to change in pitch, then after time-out when the display goes back to what it was showing, it goes back to the previous pitch).
Sometimes I turn on the DAC and there is only silence.
It is odd and I remember reading somewhere it could be caused by the display itself.

Today the DAC was making the noise again so I adjusted the screen “brightness” (all levels) and waited for it to time-out and “return” to previous display.

I have been using Level 3 which sometimes makes noise.
When adjusting settings (changing volume/menu) the sound reduces/changes pitch, but still audible. Then after time-out when it returns to previous display (input/sample rate etc) the sound gets louder and higher pitch again.
Brightness level is 1-4 levels + “Auto display off” (level 0).

I tried this process with Level 4 brightness, the sound is less both when adjusting and after time-out but still there.
I tried Level 1, very very quiet noise, I can barely hear it. I will keep this setting since I would like to know when DAC is on.
“Auto display off” (Level 0) is also no noise.
 
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Notbn

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Today the DAC was making the noise again so I adjusted the screen “brightness” (all levels) and waited for it to time-out and “return” to previous display.

I have been using Level 3 which sometimes makes noise.
When adjusting settings (changing volume/menu) the sound reduces/changes pitch, but still audible. Then after time-out when it returns to previous display (input/sample rate etc) the sound gets louder and higher pitch again.
Brightness level is 1-4 levels + “Auto display off” (level 0).

I tried this process with Level 4 brightness, the sound is less both when adjusting and after time-out but still there.
I tried Level 1, very very quiet noise, I can barely hear it. I will keep this setting since I would like to know when DAC is on.
“Auto display off” (Level 0) is also no noise.

Yeah, no screen off feature on the DA9 unfortunately. I'm awaiting a response from Apos to see about exchanging or just flat out returning the unit. It would be perfectly usable in a living room setup, but for the near field application I want to use it in, the squeal will not fly.
 

mononoaware

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Yeah, no screen off feature on the DA9 unfortunately. I'm awaiting a response from Apos to see about exchanging or just flat out returning the unit. It would be perfectly usable in a living room setup, but for the near field application I want to use it in, the squeal will not fly.

I am using in near-field also.
“Auto display off” & Level 1 brightness on SU-8 is silent at listening position.
DA-9 screen is much bigger and also color compared to SU-8, so maybe Level 1 brightness on DA-9 is still an issue with noise.

Maybe Official ASR DA-9 review should include unit noise measurement/subjective noise description.
 

jokan

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I am using in near-field also.
“Auto display off” & Level 1 brightness on SU-8 is silent at listening position.
DA-9 screen is much bigger and also color compared to SU-8, so maybe Level 1 brightness on DA-9 is still an issue with noise.

Maybe Official ASR DA-9 review should include unit noise measurement/subjective noise description.

Please read the extensive coverage on the DA-9 thread as this is SA-400 thread.
What I find most interesting is that there seems to be little interest for this amplifier in comparison to the DA-9.
If that isn't an indication of what the public wants and expects, I really don't know what is.
Making more high quality amplifiers is great, making more amplifiers just to make them isn't as great.

Also it's been many days since the last post regarding the SA-400 amplifier. Bad signs for the production lifespan for an amplifier!
 

Crakzor

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SA400 is now $100 less on Amazon too. I just got mine for 700. returning once da9 arrives.
 

jokan

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SA400 is now $100 less on Amazon too. I just got mine for 700. returning once da9 arrives.

in fairness, Amazon is having a sale on many items right now.
but it's amazing how little interest there seems to be for the sa400.
oops, I just kept the thread alive!
 
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