SMSL RAW DAC1 power supply swap for better performance

[vazgevor]

I am using SMSL RAW DAC1 as a main DAC in my system (Dali Opticon 6 mk2 speakers, Advance Paris A10 Classic amp, Wiim Pro streamer with LPS). I wanted to update the power supply inside my DAC as I investigated that in more pricier models there are AC/DC converters from brands like Mean Well, Mornsun. Also below post is supporting the idea that the original power supply that is in the DAC (as SMSL claims ultra low noise +/-12V 1A) is actually outputs only +12V with Ground. I bought 2 AC/DC converters for swap: Mean Well MPM-20-12 and Mornsun LD30-23b12r2. They are still in shipping, I want to test them with oscilloscope with fake resistive load to be sure that the output is the same as from original SMSL one.

SMSL SH-8S Review (headphone amplifier)

This is the rest of the system. DIY 5-way active. Headphones are HD6XX and OPPO PM3’s. A whole listening room! Something I doubt I will ever have lol, no space for that. Maybe if I one day retire and have no more businesses then a listening room could take up that space.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Please can you guide me, is there anyone that tried to swap the on board power supplies and are my mentioned variants interchangeable.
P.S. is there any small/simple proven upgrades that I can do to my DAC.
Thanks in advance

 

[RandomEar]

You can read the RAW MDA 1 review here. This is a transparent DAC with state of the art performance. The headphone amplifier part is ultra low noise and very powerful. There is absolutely nothing to improve there.

In any case, randomly switching parts you feel might not be perfect is definitely not a path for better performance in any electronic circuit. Unless you understand the circuit design in detail and have traced/replicated it in a design software and can simulate the results or have measured it in detail and know the specs of your replacement parts are superior in every aspect with no other downsides, you will make it worse in almost any scenario you can imagine.

With all due respect: You will not improve this device. It has been designed by engineers with far, far more experience in this stuff than you and me, using design software costing thousands of dollars and relying on reference designs by other manufacturers (DAC chip, PSU, and so on) with decades of experience. The best outcome you can hope for is that you don't electrocute yourself and don't accidentally destroy the DAC while poking around in there.

EDIT: Just saw that the RAW MDA1 a different device than the RAW DAC1. And there's also RAW Pro DAC1. Confusing naming by SMSL, but my arguments still apply.

 

[vazgevor]

@RandomEar I totally understand your point. The thing is that I want to implement already known swap. Why in all higher end models there are power supplies from brands that I mentioned? Also the power supply has very little to do with the architecture of the DAC. If there would be a supply with cleaner and stable 12V it would only benefit.

 

[RandomEar]

It's a question of marketing and cost. SMSL tends to use their own branded PSUs in "lower end" devices and brand name PSUs in higher end ones. It looks better in the marketing material and maybe the better PSUs are more reliable and haver a higher life expectancy. It's a form of product differentiation, mostly. Note that SMSL branded PSUs can still be manufactured by MeanWell or other "higher end" brands, it just doesn't say so on the casing.

Maybe the better PSUs also offer lower ripple or other improved characteristics, but to know that, you would have to measure the currently installed PSU and compare specs. Maybe they are actually worse than the one that is already installed. As is, nobody knows.

And if you read the posts in that SH-8S review, the user swapping is just randomly speculating on what might or might not be good or bad about the design on the unit. His PSU failed, so it made sense to install a replacement. But there's no proof it improved anything at all, aside from the amp working again.

The SH-8S already offers a SINAD of 121 dB and more than 95 dB SNR at low power (50 mV) - the best ever measured by Amir at the time of the review. Clearly the PCB design and the "crappy" original PSU are pushing the device to the limit of what the AP analyzer can even capture. Like, what could possibly be improved there? Same is true for your DAC.

 

[delta76]

@RandomEar I totally understand your point. The thing is that I want to implement already known swap. Why in all higher end models there are power supplies from brands that I mentioned? Also the power supply has very little to do with the architecture of the DAC. If there would be a supply with cleaner and stable 12V it would only benefit.

better performance (that is audible), no. I suspect you can't even measure it with an analyzer.
more reliably/longevity, maybe. but just maybe,

 

[RandomEar]

better performance (that is audible), no. I suspect you can't even measure it with an analyzer.
more reliably/longevity, maybe. but just maybe,

I guess those are realistic expectations. Just keep in mind that you increase the risk by swapping now vs. waiting for the PSU to fail, which it may never do in the time you own the device. The swap itself can go bad in a couple of ways (ripping pads, damaging nearby components and so on).

 

[DonDish]

Why didnt you buy the more expensive model in the first place?

 

[vazgevor]

Why didnt you buy the more expensive model in the first place?

From the reviews I got that the AKM is more natural and non analitical compared with ESS from pro model

 

[bargainguy]

AKM had a factory fire a few years back. All components using AKM chips had to be redesigned for available chips (ESS) as it took awhile for AKM to re-tool and get back to production. So there were a lot of ESS chips replacing AKM chips because manufacturers couldn't wait for retooling and had to go with what was available (ESS) versus what they originally wanted (AKM).

I think this is a fallacy, the older chips are somehow the "better" ones, or that the new ones are somehow inferior. Making one yearn for the past when the present is just as good.

 

[DVDdoug]

From the reviews I got that the AKM is more natural and non analitical compared with ESS from pro model

Typical "audiophile nonsense". Those words don't have any real meaning. The audiophile community is dominated by nonsense. This is one of the few rational-scientific resources.

DACs are generally better than human hearing. If there's a defect it's likely to be noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Or you could have something screwy like one channel being louder than the other or a bad problem like the sound cutting-out, You aren't going to get something vague like "more natural" or "analytical" etc.

Audiophoolery discusses the few actual characteristics of "sound quality".
Controlled Audio Blind Listening Tests (video)
What is a blind ABX test?

It's also worth noting that we can measure better than we can hear. And measurements are a lot quicker and easier than controlled listening tests. And, just because something measures better doesn't mean it sounds better and we don't always know where to "draw the line". There are people who believe there are things that can't be measured (and you can't measure undefined things like "analytical" or "natural") so blind listening tests can still be useful.

I want to test them with oscilloscope with fake resistive load

That might be "interesting" but what's important is the noise coming from the audio output. If you can't hear it now there can be no audible benefit but you may "feel better" if it happens to measure lower.

 

[DonDish]

Well. Im in no sense an engineer, but it would make sense to design the unit around that spesific psu. Why would you want to disrupt that. I dont see any real gain here. Anyway SMSL doesnt really seems like top of the heap either(I have a unit here). Not exactly German quality.
A question though. Why would you need an oscilloscope and not just a multimeter. Noise testing?

 

[vazgevor]

Well. Im in no sense an engineer, but it would make sense to design the unit around that spesific psu. Why would you want to disrupt that. I dont see any real gain here. Anyway SMSL doesnt really seems like top of the heap either(I have a unit here). Not exactly German quality.
A question though. Why would you need an oscilloscope and not just a multimeter. Noise testing?

For start I just want to compare the output signal for both SMPS, because in some thread I saw that GND was very noisy and unstable for smsl one

 

[DonDish]

OK