SMSL M500 MKIII DAC & Amp Review

[juanvicentefont]

I only measured the 1/4 inch. Pretty sure the 4.4 mm is for convenience and you don't get more power from it.

Great, thanks.

 

[Entropy]

Because it is superbly engineered. And it has features like that color display I like. Whether you should buy it is up to you, not me. No one is forcing you to buy it either.

In hindsight, I should've considered this. Good engineering is cool, and while I don't particularly appreciate it here, I definitely can see it in other products where it applies in the same fashion, so that's fair.

But: You've said yourself that ~1/2 of the people seeing these reviews are people that just googled the product and don't have any affiliation with this website. I'd think for a lot of these folk, a significantly cheaper, very functionally similar option would be quite appealing. Yet afaik, there isn't a system in place to tell them that in the slightest (for electronics), meaning that it's unlikely that they'll stumble across such a product unless they get lucky, or already happen to know about it. Shouldn't value and your average joe off of google be considered in these reviews?

 

[mctron]

In hindsight, I should've considered this. Good engineering is cool, and while I don't particularly appreciate it here, I definitely can see it in other products where it applies in the same fashion, so that's fair.

But: You've said yourself that ~1/2 of the people seeing these reviews are people that just googled the product and don't have any affiliation with this website. I'd think for a lot of these folk, a significantly cheaper, very functionally similar option would be quite appealing. Yet afaik, there isn't a system in place to tell them that in the slightest (for electronics), meaning that it's unlikely that they'll stumble across such a product unless they get lucky, or already happen to know about it. Shouldn't value and your average joe off of google be considered in these reviews?

Who is to say what kind of money Average Joe wants to spend? They can do the research and make that determination for themselves. This is not Slickdeals. Don’t need to spoon feed everyone

 

[Entropy]

It is verboten to spend tens of thousand more to own a famous name in the audiophiles Olympus and a bomb-proof over engineered case.

I'd imagine on average, the people buying this ultra-expensive equipment aren't affected any more than the people buying reasonably priced, well-measuring stuff. It's like, make 40 grand a year (Net)? You're probably going to struggle with living expenses if you go out and spend 40% (16k) on audio gear. Make 250k a year? Spend 40% (100k)? No biggie.

So pretty much different strokes for different folks. Some people like having well-measuring gear or such for the sake of it, some people like having $20k nelson pass amps... for the sake of it, shrug.

 

[Kitarist]

How do you know DX7Pro+ sounds better in what sense? Some reviewers still say M500 MK3 sounds better even tho its cheaper its really subjective also.

 

[AndreaT]

I'd imagine on average, the people buying this ultra-expensive equipment aren't affected any more than the people buying reasonably priced, well-measuring stuff. It's like, make 40 grand a year (Net)? You're probably going to struggle with living expenses if you go out and spend 40% (16k) on audio gear. Make 250k a year? Spend 40% (100k)? No biggie.

So pretty much different strokes for different folks. Some people like having well-measuring gear or such for the sake of it, some people like having $20k nelson pass amps... for the sake of it, shrug.

Well…this is an Audio Science Forum, not the place to discuss grievances you might feel based on your perceptions of unfairness of the capitalist system and the USA structure of pay and income. Even when you hypothetically make 250k a year, you are reckless if you spend 40% of your income on audio gear, IMO. My original post wished to point out how amazing it is to buy SOTA equipment for $ 500 (and much, much less if you followed recent reviews of IE headphones and DACs w/o HPA). The trend for these electronics has been toward lower prices and higher (even astonishing) quality. You quite appropriately pointed out the excellence of SMSL c200 for a lower price.

Now your new post has a hint of class warfare overtones, quite out of place as a reply to me. Enjoy your Music and have a good evening.

 

[srkbear]

Outrageous DAC performance, a bit bricklike design and outperforming the Dave for 1/26th of the price.

I came to that calculation myself during the dreaded DAVE review thread! It’s my favorite calculation ever—a number so high that you think it HAS to be hyperbole, but incredibly, it is wholly accurate.

Imagine presenting that figure to any otherwise rational person about ANY eight year old product with inferior performance, and try to imagine what form of madness would convince them to choose the one that costs 26 times the one that does exactly the same thing, but objectively better. Then go head on over to the DAVE thread on Head-Fi. Try not to think of Jonestown when you do.

 

[Spocko]

I came to that calculation myself during the dreaded DAVE review thread! It’s my favorite calculation ever—a number so high that you think it HAS to be hyperbole, but incredibly, it is wholly accurate.

Imagine presenting that figure to any otherwise rational person about ANY eight year old product with inferior performance, and try to imagine what form of madness would convince them to choose the one that costs 26 times the one that does exactly the same thing, but objectively better. Then go head on over to the DAVE thread on Head-Fi. Try not to think of Jonestown when you do.

People are still buying the DAVE because it continues to be listed on Stereophile's list of Top DACs - Unbelievable that a 6 year old DAC is still considered state of the art by some. It's as if time stood still and things can't get better for $7K

 

[jam]

Another outstanding DAC/Amp from SMSL. Thanks for the review Amir. It's crazy how Amir's top 20 DAC list now classifies the contenders by differences measured in tenths of dBs and starting at 120 dBs. I like the narrow form factor that doesn't take up much width space on a shelf by exploiting the depth instead. You can place it next to another component like an audio computer, streamer or optical disc player on the same shelf.

 

[okok]

until the USB 12k noise problem is fixed, just don't pull any trigger, no

 

[jam]

People are still buying the DAVE because it continues to be listed on Stereophile's list of Top DACs - Unbelievable that a 6 year old DAC is still considered state of the art by some. It's as if time stood still and things can't get better for $7K

That's the point FOMO... ehh I mean Spocko, time has to stand still so that the advertising revenue stream continues.

 

[Grooved]

Agree, but maybe not Roon exclusive, but some open source API. Roon ain't cheap, and nothing roon does is so brilliant it can't be achieved with FOSS.

I never implied that it should be exclusive to any software, Roon was just an example
As for the DAWs, any software having a control room section allowing to applied plugins that are heard on different outputs but not applied to the master channel from which the track will be exported can use a DAC that would have separated outputs for Line and HP

 

[AndreaT]

I'd consider the difference between SINADs of 119 and 123 to be insignificant. You're not going to hear that difference. Measure it? Yes. Hear it? No.

When I was in the business, it was the world's worst industry secret that some manufacturers souped up the products they sent out to reviewers to show better numbers. It cost them a little money to do it, but benefited them with increased sales that more than offset the cost. Examples purchased at retail didn't even come close.

How could you soup up performance of something built with high scale automation like this DAC? Please be specific. Hand pick the best ESS specimen? Change the nanometers in the design by calling the foundry? Use a better silica for the wafers? Otto engines could be more easily and dishonestly souped up. I doubt also that Amir could be fooled by this trickery.

 

[Grooved]

until the USB 12k noise problem is fixed, just don't pull any trigger, no

If this a joke? because I don't see any problem in USB jitter. It's not because they improve Coax and Toslink jitter that it means that USB jitter shows any problem.

@amirm said it clearly: "even more perfect than USB", unless I don't understand, it means that USB is also perfect, but Toslink/Coax are even a bit better than that

 

[AndreaT]

People are still buying the DAVE because it continues to be listed on Stereophile's list of Top DACs - Unbelievable that a 6 year old DAC is still considered state of the art by some. It's as if time stood still and things can't get better for $7K

Stereophile and The Absolute Sound are in need of a major wake-up, shake-up. After many years of subscription to both, I have not renewed them as they did not offer useful advice and hardly ever they dare to publish negative reviews.

 

[okok]

If this a joke? because I don't see any problem in USB jitter.

you seen the above post about the mk2 result? mk2 and the su10 don't get this problem, if might be joker anywhere and slippery

su10 result also on l7, also got mk3 tested there, usb got the same problem, the first batch su10 messed up the usb 12k noise too, really messy, and it got fixed with new firmware, plain and simple, and the l7 measurements confirmed it with a following update

 

[Grooved]

you seen the above post about the mk2 result? mk2 and the su10 don't get this problem, if might be joker anywhere and slippery

su10 result also on l7, also got mk3 tested there, usb got the same problem, the first batch su10 messed up the usb 12k noise too, really messy, and it got fixed with new firmware, plain and simple, and the l7 measurements confirmed it with a following update

Yes, I saw it, but even at 1kHz, the MKII has a nicer form than the MKIII, but in the end, the MKIII still has a higher SINAD
That's why I said it's not a problem

I'm not even sure it would show up in SINAD. If @amirm still has the device, he can run a 1kHz test again, but this time via Toslink or Coax instead of USB,and see it SINAD improves from USB

Yes it could be like Toslink/Coax, but no it's not a real problem if you listen music with this device more than looking at a graph difference around -140dB

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Mandy, can you release new firmware to fix this USB input problem? it's unusual, just make some update to solve it

What's the problem here?
It just have a tiny tiny more low frequency jitter causing skirting.

 

[xnor]

@maros.zr While maybe technically correct, those differences are irrelevant.
HD 800's need less than 2.5 Vrms with highly dynamic music and ~0.6 Vrms with modern pop/rock to achieve SPL that will damage your hearing listening just ~2 h/day. At safer levels or with DRC'd music you can drive the easy >300 ohm load with pretty much any 2V device/dongle.

 

[Labjr]

Nice review! Won't be long before you're using 1,000ths of a db for SINAD!

The display colors are reminiscent of an early 70's Sansui Receiver.

I'm not crazy about the boxy form factor. It seems to make the back panel more crowded. The XLR jack will be in the way of the Bluetooth antenna whch is underneath.