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SMSL M500 DAC and HP Amp Review

Labjr

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I'm new here, so maybe the answer to this question is obvious: why would you go with a DAC / AMP instead of separate components, given the existence of the THX amps from Monoprice and Massdrop that test so highly? Especially since the DAC in this unit is so good, but the amp is not the best?

Yep, I'm still waiting to see a reference DAC with a top performing headphone amp in one box. The amp always seems to be an afterthought. But there's still time. Maybe in the next round of components. Then there likely will be some other new feature that's left out.:rolleyes:
 

restorer-john

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There are many, many albums in which one track seamlessly transitions to the next. A trivial example is a "live" album, but a lot of modern music does this.

I guess being a child of the vinyl and CD era, the only gap was either at the end of the side or the end of the disc. CD just plays through track transitions and preserves the gap or lack thereof as intended by the artist/producer.

CD players often had an "auto space" button to insert 4 second gaps between each track to allow (APSS) track search functions to work correctly on dubbed cassettes...
 

restorer-john

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Remember "indexing" on CDs and how early players could handle that? This is the same kind of thing. Index points shouldn't have gaps or pauses in the playback, unless it's in the TOC for the disc.

Indexing was really not needed as the CD format could handle 99 tracks (really 100 if you hide a track 0) in TOC in any case. That said, they planned ahead. I have several early indexed discs.
 

chauct

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This might be my next DAC. One question however: Can this function as a preamp? ie does the volume knob change the RCA out level? Thanks
 

Hugo9000

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Indexing was really not needed as the CD format could handle 99 tracks (really 100 if you hide a track 0) in TOC in any case. That said, they planned ahead. I have several early indexed discs.
Yes, I figured with your extensive collection of vintage gear that you'd be familiar with indexing, which is why I mentioned it. Imagine if those index points resulted in pauses in playback. That's effectively what happens with gapless playback being broken for something like an opera recording.
 
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amirm

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This might be my next DAC. One question however: Can this function as a preamp? ie does the volume knob change the RCA out level? Thanks
Yes, it does that. All DACs with volume control do that. Note though that there are NO analog inputs. So if you don't need that, they indeed act like very good preamps. Indeed if you add a pre-amp, you lower their performance.
 

Dana reed

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There are many, many albums in which one track seamlessly transitions to the next. A trivial example is a "live" album, but a lot of modern music does this. In EDM this is the norm. A silent gap would not only be disruptive, the beginning of the next track is not designed to start from silence. So the whole effect of the music is ruined.
Along with every Pink Floyd album. I can’t stand listening to wish you were here, if gapless isn’t working
 

maxxevv

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Yep, I'm still waiting to see a reference DAC with a top performing headphone amp in one box. The amp always seems to be an afterthought. But there's still time. Maybe in the next round of components. Then there likely will be some other new feature that's left out.:rolleyes:

Take a look at the review of the Matrix Element X. It gets very close and more than good compared to most offerings commonly seen.
 

veeceem

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Of course. And its higher output level should be a good thing for AHB2. You are just limited to digital inputs M500 supports.
So this one is better than DX7 Pro when used as a DAC+Preamp combo due to its higher XLR outputs??? My topping is arriving in a day or two :/
 

chauct

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Adding to Amir's response, it seems to me that you would need something like the Benchmark LA4 in order to have a preamplifier that does it justice (and add analog inputs to your system with this dac in play). The Benchmark DAC3 L and HGC are dac options that have analog inputs and are state of the art, but at 4-5 times the cost.

I have no need for analog inputs so this should work.
 

raif71

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Continuous music, that has track points merely to direct playback to a specific point in the music. This is most common with classical, particularly operas. In an opera, the only moments of silence or proper "gaps" would be between acts and sometimes scenes. Typically, there will be continuous singing that has multiple track points. There shouldn't be a pause or gap or silence in the middle of the music in an opera. Some symphonies have one movement that continues unbroken into the next (Saint-Saëns' "organ" symphony, for example), as do some concerti (e.g. Rachmaninov's 3rd piano concerto, the transition from the second to the third movement). CDs typically define track points for these sections so that the listener can skip directly to a particular movement or aria if he/she chooses, but if one wants to listen to the entire work, there should be no audible break between such tracks, whether it's a pause or a click.

In popular music, there are some albums where there is no silence or gap between songs. The artists created some kind of transition or bridge between the songs so that one goes smoothly into the next. I can't think of an example off the top of my head. I think there is some Beatles album or perhaps Pink Floyd that requires gapless playback. Anyone who likes those would be driven mad by a gap in the playback lmao. If it's not intended by the artist, it shouldn't have a pause. Remember "indexing" on CDs and how early players could handle that? This is the same kind of thing. Index points shouldn't have gaps or pauses in the playback, unless it's in the TOC for the disc. Same with tracks.

Imagine some scoundrel (or a naughty child for those with children haha!) with a remote control pausing your music randomly for a half-second or so every few minutes while you try to listen and enjoy your music.

Another popular example is Beethoven's 5th Symphony, between 3rd and 4th movements... The tracks are different for each movements but if play is not gapless between the tracks, it'll surely ruin the experience.
 
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amirm

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I found one:
View attachment 37224

Will test with M500 when I am in my lab....
OK, did some testing with this track. It seems to be gap-free with no glitch. I would seek to near the end of one track and it would nicely go into next one.

But then, as I left it alone, it glitched once. I tried to repeat it by going to the end of last track and it would not glitch. As I type this it went through three tracks with no issues at all.

So there may be an issue here but it is not persistent or common.
 

Hugo9000

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OK, did some testing with this track. It seems to be gap-free with no glitch. I would seek to near the end of one track and it would nicely go into next one.

But then, as I left it alone, it glitched once. I tried to repeat it by going to the end of last track and it would not glitch. As I type this it went through three tracks with no issues at all.

So there may be an issue here but it is not persistent or common.
Okay, thank you for checking!
 
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amirm

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Actually, when using M500 to decode MQA files through Roon, can Roon still do DSP with the files?
So I tried this. Quite fascinating. When I turn on DSP in Roon, the "LED" indicator on M500 changes color from green to magenta. I can't make heads and tails out of the colors from either M500 manual or what they have posted from MQA:

index.php


However, I popped up the Roon pipeline with DSP on and off and got this useful information:

MQA DSP Processing.png


So what is happening is that when you turn on DSP, roon internally decodes the MQA stream. It then ups the bit depth to 64 bit, applies the DSP and then embeds the MQA flag that says this is MQA but is not the original bitstream ("ORFS"). The signal at this point is decoded PCM stream with just the MQA flag. I suspect the DAC is still allowed to upsample to 192 kHz (this content is 96 kHz so I can't test it).
 

veeceem

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As discussed earlier "better" at this level depends on a number of features whose value you yourself determine. Perhaps more important are the components you are connecting this to. One question you should ask yourself is: is your amp state of the art and able to actually do justice to the dacs?
It's NAD M22 v2 which based on Hypex NC400. Arriving in 2 weeks :/
Probably setup is as follow:
Laptop -> usb -> Topping DX7 Pro (as DAC+preamp) -> NAD M22 v2 -> Tannoy Kensington GR
 

mi-fu

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So I tried this. Quite fascinating. When I turn on DSP in Roon, the "LED" indicator on M500 changes color from green to magenta. I can't make heads and tails out of the colors from either M500 manual or what they have posted from MQA:

index.php


However, I popped up the Roon pipeline with DSP on and off and got this useful information:

View attachment 37226

So what is happening is that when you turn on DSP, roon internally decodes the MQA stream. It then ups the bit depth to 64 bit, applies the DSP and then embeds the MQA flag that says this is MQA but is not the original bitstream ("ORFS"). The signal at this point is decoded PCM stream with just the MQA flag. I suspect the DAC is still allowed to upsample to 192 kHz (this content is 96 kHz so I can't test it).

Thanks Amir! This is quite fascinating!

It is quite interesting that it will embed an MQA flag. So, if my understanding is correct, with Roon and M500, I can take advantage of both DSP and hardware MQA upsampling?

Then it seems to be the best of two worlds?
 
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amirm

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It is quite interesting that it will embed an MQA flag. So, if my understanding is correct, with Roon and M500, I can take advantage of both DSP and hardware MQA upsampling?
That's correct.
 
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amirm

amirm

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By chance, I found some test tones in Tidal that are MQA encoded! They use a frequency of 375 Hz for some reason. I performed a quick comparison, streaming the Tidal MQA versus straight PCM from my analyzer to M500. Here is the comparison (at 44.1 kHz):
SMSL M500 DAC and Headphone Amplifier MQA Measurements.png


Everything is identical until we get near end of this spectrum (90 kHz) with a rather strong spike to -60 dB. My guess is that the gentle MQA filter is allowing an aliasing component to show up there. Not an audible thing but information nevertheless.
 
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