SMSL M400 DSD CLICK

[zskyper]

I just told you that DoP is NOT a solution because it's PURE DSD and therefore the bug remains

 

[JohnYang1997]

so sorry to insist but the remaining question is why the D90 Standard doesn't have this issue?
Why the M400 doesn't have this issue if the cause is not the MQA FW but linux driver or XMOS XU216?

?

The different models use the same driver. Nothing is added or specifically done on the PC end to reduce the pop. So I also can ask why only Linux has issues? There used to be the issue on Mac but it's improved.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I just told you that DoP is NOT a solution because it's PURE DSD and therefore the bug remains

You are the only one who said DoP has the pop. In page 2 the other guy said DoP doesn't have the issue.

 

[zskyper]

you evade the question!
the real question is why we have the issue ONLY on the D90 MQA and not on the SMSL M400 and D90 Std!?

 

[zskyper]

You are the only one who said DoP has the pop. In page 2 the other guy said DoP doesn't have the issue.

again, after rigorous tests as soon as you have a change from DSD to PCM you have an HUGE pop! with the D90 MQA.

 

[JohnYang1997]

you evade the question!
the real question is why we have the issue ONLY on the D90 MQA and not on the SMSL M400 and D90 Std!?

It's the equal argument for us. Why m400 and d90 std doesn't have the pop AND why windows and Mac doesn't have the pop. The questions are equally valid.
As you stated countless times, just out of curiosity, I may try out using Linux. I'll be using MX linux and DoP if I managed to do so.

 

[zskyper]

As you stated countless times, just out of curiosity, I may try out using Linux. I'll be using MX linux and DoP if I managed to do so.

good thank you! and feel free to ask if you need any help to configure/optimize your alsa/MPD config

do not forget to adjust the audio buffer size:

audio_buffer_size "4096"

 

[zskyper]

if other guys are interested to give it a try on your favorite linux distro here is a simple MPD conf to play native DSD correctly on your USB DAC:

to find the correct index of your USB DAC type:

aplay -l

to list of playback hardware devices (card 0, card 1, car 2....) and to get the index of your USB DAC
report this index number in the line device "hw:x,0" of audio_config (replace x by the index) see below the USB DAC is usually indexed 1

# configuration file for MPD.

# to use a Windows shared directory on your LAN network that contains your music
# use this path: smb://username:[email protected]/Music" 

music_directory        "<path to your music>"
playlist_directory    "/var/lib/mpd/playlists"
db_file                "/var/lib/mpd/tag_cache"
log_file            "/var/log/mpd/mpd.log"
pid_file            "/run/mpd/pid"
state_file            "/var/lib/mpd/state"
sticker_file        "/var/lib/mpd/sticker.sql"
user                "mpd"
group                 "audio"
bind_to_address        "any"
port                "6600"
log_level            "default"
restore_paused         "yes"
auto_update            "no"

input {
        plugin         "curl"
}

# QOBUZ input plugin
input {
        enabled    "no"
        plugin     "qobuz"
#        app_id     "ID"
#        app_secret "SECRET"
#        username   "USERNAME"
#        password   "PASSWORD"
#        format_id  "N"
}

# TIDAL input plugin
input {
        enabled      "no"
        plugin       "tidal"
#        token        "TOKEN"
#        username     "USERNAME"
#        password     "PASSWORD"
#        audioquality "Q"
}

decoder {
        plugin      "ffmpeg"
        enabled     "yes"
#       gapless     "no"
}

replaygain                "off"
replaygain_preamp        "0"
volume_normalization    "no"
filesystem_charset        "UTF-8"
audio_buffer_size         "4096"
max_output_buffer_size     "131072"
max_connections         "128"

# default
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "Default"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "no"
}

# DoP
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC DoP"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "yes"
}

# native optimized
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC NoDoP"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "no"
auto_resample   "no"
auto_channels   "no"
auto_format     "no"
}

# workaround to convert cleanly DSD to PCM
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC Force 24Bit"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
format "*:24:*"
}

IMPORTANT: NATIVE DSD is broken in all kernel branch 4.4X and beyond, use the "ALSA USB DAC DoP" or simply downgrade the kernel to 4.19.x to enjoy up to DSD1024 if your USB DAC supports them with "Default" or "ALSA USB DAC NoDoP" audio output.

Cheers,
z

 

[JohnYang1997]

if other guys are interested to give it a try on your favorite linux distro here is a simple MPD conf to play native DSD correctly on your USB DAC:

to find the correct index of your USB DAC type:

aplay -l

to list of playback hardware devices (card 0, card 1, car 2....) and to get the index of your USB DAC
report this index number in the line device "hw:x,0" of audio_config (replace x by the index) see below the USB DAC is usually indexed 1

# configuration file for MPD.

music_directory        "<path to your music>"
playlist_directory    "<path to your playlists>"
db_file                "/var/lib/mpd/tag_cache"
log_file            "/var/log/mpd/mpd.log"
pid_file            "/run/mpd/pid"
state_file            "/var/lib/mpd/state"
sticker_file        "/var/lib/mpd/sticker.sql"
user                "mpd"
group                 "audio"
bind_to_address        "any"
port                "6600"
log_level            "default"
restore_paused         "yes"
auto_update            "no"

input {
        plugin         "curl"
}

# QOBUZ input plugin
input {
        enabled    "no"
        plugin     "qobuz"
#        app_id     "ID"
#        app_secret "SECRET"
#        username   "USERNAME"
#        password   "PASSWORD"
#        format_id  "N"
}

# TIDAL input plugin
input {
        enabled      "no"
        plugin       "tidal"
#        token        "TOKEN"
#        username     "USERNAME"
#        password     "PASSWORD"
#        audioquality "Q"
}

decoder {
        plugin      "ffmpeg"
        enabled     "yes"
#       gapless     "no"
}

replaygain                "off"
replaygain_preamp        "0"
volume_normalization    "no"
filesystem_charset        "UTF-8"
audio_buffer_size         "4096"
max_output_buffer_size     "131072"
max_connections         "128"

# default
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "Default"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "no"
}

# DoP
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC DoP"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "yes"
}

# native optimized
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC NoDoP"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "no"
auto_resample   "no"
auto_channels   "no"
auto_format     "no"
}

# workaround to convert cleanly DSD to PCM
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC Force 24Bit"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
format "*:24:*"
}

Cheers,
z

Got my MX linux going. Running HQPLAYER. No pop found so far. Running DoP and all others on default. There's a bit delay switching between DSD and PCM. But no pop. The front panel of D90 MQA is indeed showing 11.28MHz.

 

[JohnYang1997]

With some further investigation. In a more extreme and utterly unrealistic condition there's pop to be heard.
When I set the volume on the HQPLAYER to -48dB, and crank up the speaker amp, there's a pop. It's relatively loud but not too loud that I would worry anything would break.
However, here's the important part. When I set the volume on D90 MQA to -48dB and set the volume on HQPLAYER back to -1dB, there's no pop. None at all.
Hence in the intended use case, (changing volume using the DAC), there's no issue.

 

[zskyper]

installing and running MX linux (latest) right now with exactly the same issue.

Using Cantata as a player with MPD server to get native DSD using the audio output DoP config "ALSA USB DAC DoP"
see the above configuration

 

[JohnYang1997]

installing and running MX linux (latest) right now with exactly the same issue.

Using Cantata as a player with MPD server to get native DSD using the audio output DoP config "ALSA USB DAC DoP"
see the above configuration

What's the attenuation you normally use? Don't use attenuation on the PC end, use D90 MQA instead if you do attenuation. I know it's just for testing. But it would be more accurate if you also attenuate the volume on D90 MQA.

 

[zskyper]

At *normal* volume I get a MASSIVE POP and at mid a get a pop and obviously if I reduce at -48db I get a tiny "pop" !
this is absolutely not possible to use the MQA at -48db...

In a more extreme and utterly unrealistic condition there's pop to be heard.

Not agree! Linux is everywhere on audio hardware like the streamer or integrated network amp... I'm sure you can do something to attenuate this pop drastically from the firmware but not sure you want to do it.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to test with linux even if I do not agree with your conclusion because I tested rigorously before claiming this problem here and I'm sure there's a huge pop when switching from DSD to PCM with the D90 MQA (at normal volume)...

 

[JohnYang1997]

At *normal* volume I get a MASSIVE POP and at mid a get a pop and obviously if I reduce at -48db I get a tiny "pop" !
this is absolutely not possible to use the MQA at -48db...



Not agree! Linux is everywhere on audio hardware like the streamer or integrated network amp... I'm sure you can do something to attenuate this pop drastically from the firmware but not sure you want to do it.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to test with linux even if I do not agree with your conclusion because I tested rigorously before claiming this problem here and I'm sure there's a huge pop when switching from DSD to PCM with the D90 MQA (at normal volume)...

What do you connect D90 MQA to? It's utterly not practical if you set PC at very low volume and leave the DAC at maximum. I was not talking about using Linux. There shouldn't be issue for normal use.
To put it into perspective. If your speaker need tons of gain to produce sound the pop is not audible. If the pop is audible to you, you wouldn't listen at that volume because it's simply too loud. Unless you attenuate the volume on the software which is not practical and is the cause of the problem in practice.

 

[JohnYang1997]

On to the part whether I want to change the firmware. Sorry I don't do firmware. It's not my job.
Also as DAC volume can attenuate this, it means it comes before the DAC chip. It's either from the computer/driver or in the XMOS Xu216 chip, or both. There has not been issue with other platforms, so I'm sure there's hardly anything can be done.

Again, remember all of this is not part of my job. I do this because I have the convenience to do this and am a member of this forum.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Lastly it can just be your unit is defective. I was switching tracks at normal volume(max on PC AND D90 MQA, adjust volume on speaker amp) and no pop(not remotely) to be heard at all.

 

[zskyper]

tested with HQ player linux same issue!!!!!!! I don't really know why you do not want to admit it? I never seen this...
The volume is totally unrelated to the issue, if for some reason the volume goes to 80 to 100% you will get a huge pop which is very bad for your speakers. not really understand your attitude towards this problem ...

("you" meant Topping not you )

 

[JohnYang1997]

tested with HQ player linux same issue!!!!!!! I don't really know why you do not want to admit it? I never seen this...
The volume is totally unrelated to the issue, if for some reason the volume goes to 80 to 100% you will get a huge pop which is very bad for your speakers. not really understand your attitude towards this problem ...

Why do I need to admit something that's not true??
The -48dB was normal volume because I cranked the volume on the speaker amp almost all the way up. In that situation, the pop is comparable to the audio. If you set volume on PC max and attenuate after the PC like using the DAC or external preamp or volume on integrated amp, or headphone amp, you shouldn't get any pop. If you do, get a replacement maybe. It is just not the behavior it should have. Jeez.

 

[zskyper]

okay there is no way to get a solution in this sterile discussion.... I give you all the info to fix your issue now I guess Topping needs more people to report the problem before considering it.
Cheers,
z

 

[JohnYang1997]

okay there is no way to get a solution in this sterile discussion.... I give you all the info to fix your issue now I guess Topping needs more people to report the problem before considering it.
Cheers,
z

I can come and go. Do not associate me with Topping too tightly. I'm going back to university in 2 months. Even if D90 MQA has big issue it's NOT MY ISSUE. I'm only convenient to convey the issue to my colleagues. As we test it, it's not a issue in normal use. NOT AT ALL. You call whatever you want to. This is our side of truth. If it's not on your side , then get a replacement. That's all I can give.