SMSL M400 DSD CLICK

[JohnYang1997]

I see that M400 doesn't have the issue. If this is important to you get the M400. No hard feelings.
They used DC blocking capacitor to solve the issue in hardware level. Props to them for solving this.
This issue is not limited to DSD to PCM. It's also present in switching in between DSD files and PCM files with different sampling rates. It's that the switching between DSD and PCM is relatively most severe.
Also this shouldn't be an issue when used with a dedicated preamp.

 

[zskyper]

to be clear this is important for YOU (Topping) not me, If you read carefully my reports I own a D90 Std which is perfect for me and which doesn't have any issue, I've also a D90 MQA kindly loaned by a pal for my tests because I was interested to find a workaround and fix myself this HUGE problem...unfortunately after making a lot of test since almost a month I cannot fix from my side but it's maybe easy to fix from the Topping firmware.

with D90 MQA connect in usb:

no issue with Mac or Windows with latest firmware/driver

Hardware using linux/alsa (rpi, desktop, streamer, network amp):

Switching from DSD to DSD at different rate is OKAY
Switching from PCM to DSD at different rate is OKAY
Switching from PCM to PCM at different rate is OKAY

Switching from DSD to PCM at any rate = HUGE POP so loud that seems to destroy your speaker!

So please check by yourself and fix it if it's possible... send me a pm if you need more info or need me to test something or whatever...

 

[JohnYang1997]

to be clear this is important for YOU (Topping) not me, If you read carefully my reports I own a D90 Std which is perfect for me and which doesn't have any issue, I've also a D90 MQA kindly loaned by a pal for my tests because I was interested to find a workaround and fix myself this HUGE problem...unfortunately after making a lot of test since almost a month I cannot fix from my side but it's maybe easy to fix from the Topping firmware.

with D90 MQA:
Switching from DSD to DSD at different rate is OKAY
Switching from PCM to DSD at different rate is OKAY
Switching from PCM to PCM at different rate is OKAY

Switching from DSD to PCM at any rate = HUGE POP so loud that seems to destroy your speaker!

So please check by yourself and fix it if it's possible... send me a pm if you need more info or need me to test something or whatever...

Okay! I am investigating this with another engineer right now. Will report after a few minutes.

 

[JohnYang1997]

D90 MQA
Randomly switched between DSD and PCM. No difference found in the level of pop. The first one is from DSD to PCM.

M400 is better when switching in between DSD files but worse when switching between PCM and DSD. The larger pops are between PCM and DSD and smaller pops are in between different DSD files.

Dx7pro basically clean. No pop in between switching. No at all other than being silent in between playing different files. Great alternative if this is important to you.

In conclusion. No issue found. All expected behavior. No further investigation.

 

[zskyper]

this can be repro with any linux distro using a pretty standard mpd.conf

sample mpd audio ouputs used:

audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "Default"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "no"
}

audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC DoP"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "yes"
}

audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC NoDoP"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
dop "no"
auto_resample   "no"
auto_channels   "no"
auto_format     "no"
}

 

[zskyper]

In conclusion. No issue found. All expected behavior. No further investigation.

ahah! nice to see how much you care about your customers... okay I give up.

 

[JohnYang1997]

ahah! nice to see how much you care about your customers... okay I give up.

My customer? I was here on ASR long before I started design amplifier for topping. I invest this issue solely for your convenience. No obligation for me to do any for customer service.
Plus, NO support for Linux. Let alone Native DSD on Linux. Only DoP is ever recommended in the first place for any non Windows platform. You are on your own.

 

[zskyper]

wake up linux support native DSD since a while now... I do not recommend the D90 MQA for guys using linux or if you have a streamer using linux OS...

 

[JohnYang1997]

Also, everything I said on this thread is coherent. It's been reported on MAC os that there's pop using DSD. And it's addressed on previous firmware. You were talking like I was repeating myself and simply lying. No I wasn't. And no evidence is found either M400 has much lower pop or DSD to PCM produce loud pop on D90 MQA.

 

[JohnYang1997]

wake up linux support native DSD since a while now... I do not recommend the D90 MQA for guys using linux or if you have a streamer using linux OS...

You need to know that driver is from Linux itself right? There's no way to improve the situation when it's a non issue on other platforms.
Plus I do not recommend the MQA version ever. If anyone wants to get D90 get the non MQA version if you don't need MQA.

 

[yejun]

wake up linux support native DSD since a while now... I do not recommend the D90 MQA for guys using linux or if you have a streamer using linux OS...

I am just wondering if roon bridge or hqplayer have the same issue.

 

[zskyper]

I am just wondering if roon bridge or hqplayer have the same issue.

good question as now that we're sure we don't get any help from topping to find a workaround...
I will check this asap but I already make my own "audiophile" linux distro with almost all kernel available (RT/Non RT) using Debian buster, Fedora 32 and latest ArchLinux on Arm (Raspberry PI 3b+ and PI 4) and also amd64 (Intel x64 platform) also tested using all "audiophile" distro available like Moodeaudio, Volumio, Daphile, etc. with no luck...

The remaining question is why does the D90 Standard doesn't have this issue?

I'm still convinced there is something wrong in the FW of the MQA which is compensated by the windows/mac driver which linux doesn't have


just read the specs of Roon Bridge on Linux and unfortunately the MQA will get the issue with it, this includes all hardware based on the Linux Roon Bridge/server...

specs of HQPlayer on Linux confirm that the MQA will get the issue as well...

Roon bridge and HQPlayer exists for Windows/MacOS so you have your workaround here.
Cheers,
z

 

[JohnYang1997]

good question as now that we're sure we don't get any help from topping to find a workaround...
I will check this asap but I already make my own "audiophile" linux distro with almost all kernel available (RT/Non RT) using Debian buster, Fedora 32 and latest ArchLinux on Arm (Raspberry PI 3b+ and PI 4) and also amd64 (Intel x64 platform) also tested using all "audiophile" distro available like Moodeaudio, Volumio, Daphile, etc. with no luck...

The remaining question is why does the D90 Standard doesn't have this issue?

I'm still convinced there is something wrong in the FW of the MQA which is compensated by the windows/mac driver which linux doesn't have

Because different XMOS chips. Linux using universal drivers of course will have some issues. This is not even an issue. From Linux standpoint this is working like a charm as all files play nicely.

 

[JohnYang1997]

good question as now that we're sure we don't get any help from topping to find a workaround...
I will check this asap but I already make my own "audiophile" linux distro with almost all kernel available (RT/Non RT) using Debian buster, Fedora 32 and latest ArchLinux on Arm (Raspberry PI 3b+ and PI 4) and also amd64 (Intel x64 platform) also tested using all "audiophile" distro available like Moodeaudio, Volumio, Daphile, etc. with no luck...

The remaining question is why does the D90 Standard doesn't have this issue?

I'm still convinced there is something wrong in the FW of the MQA which is compensated by the windows/mac driver which linux doesn't have

Plus. There has always been workaround being DoP. That doesn't work?

 

[zskyper]

Plus. There has always been workaround being DoP. That doesn't work?

Already reply to this John! no DoP is a fake PCM and perfectly managed and played by the D90 as DSD so the issue is still there, again DoP / NoDoP is NOT related to this issue as soon as you have a change from DSD to PCM you get the huge POP!

 

[JohnYang1997]

Already reply to this John! no DoP is a fake PCM and perfectly managed and played by the D90 as DSD so the issue is still there, again DoP / NoDoP is NOT related to this issue as soon as you have a change from DSD to PCM you get the huge POP!

DoP is a fake PCM. Got it.

 

[zskyper]

DoP is not a solution as the DSD data are "encapsuled" inside the PCM as you know so the D90 can manage to play the DSD and I already gave a tip in the D90 main topic to force re-sampling "cleanly" the DSD to PCM on linux using this setting:

sudo nano /etc/mpd.conf

add these lines at the end of the conf file:

audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC Force 24Bit"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
format "*:24:*"
}

CTRL+O to save
CTRL+X to exit

restart MPD:
sudo systemctl restart mpd

Choose the "ALSA USB DAC Force 24Bit" as audio output in your MPD player

this is a simple but extreme workaround and NOT an acceptable solution.
Cheers,
z

 

[zskyper]

so sorry to insist but the remaining question is why the D90 Standard doesn't have this issue?
Why the M400 doesn't have this issue if the cause is not the MQA FW but linux driver or XMOS XU216?

?

 

[JohnYang1997]

DoP is not a solution as the DSD data are "encapsuled" inside the PCM as you know so the D90 can manage to play the DSD and I already gave a tip in the D90 main topic to force re-sampling "cleanly" the DSD to PCM on linux using this setting:

sudo nano /etc/mpd.conf

add these lines at the end of the conf file:

audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ALSA USB DAC Force 24Bit"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
format "*:24:*"
}

CTRL+O to save
CTRL+X to exit

restart MPD:
sudo systemctl restart mpd

Choose the "ALSA USB DAC Force 24Bit" as audio output in your MPD player

this is a simple but extreme workaround and NOT an acceptable solution.
Cheers,
z

DoP is DoP not resampling nor conversion. It's fully pure DSD. You don't need to do any conversion.

 

[zskyper]

DoP is DoP not resampling nor conversion. It's fully pure DSD. You don't need to do any conversion.

did you read carefully my post?