SMSL DO400 DAC & HP Amp Review

[Roland68]

Yes its required now a days to watch it closely.
Yes I personally missed the Loxjie D60, ergo copy of DO400 premiere.
I do understand politicsts of this china conglomerat, but for average user it must me confusing,
The best example is what I have provided.
Aoshida latest promo of DO400 USD474
hi-fi express latest promo Loxjie D60 USD288
Both hardware are 1:1 the same.
Most of average ppl audio choices are not as reasonable as mine.

Vide:
"Using an Infineon amplifier stage would not do justice to the DO400 at all; furthermore, such chips are unfortunately more prone to failure than, for instance, the TPA325x series or other amplifier solutions."

We have to agree to disagree, I prefer Infineon chips over TPA.
But that was not the point.
Point was adding AMP chips to DO400 and pricing it accordingly would make one of the best AIO in the market, that was the point.

Vide:
"The Loxjie D60 hit the market significantly later. Unfortunately, there have already been several reports of display failures with the D60; the quality of the display itself has also drawn repeated criticism.
The SMSL DL400 is a functionally identical device, though it lacks the high-quality 4-pin XLR headphone output."

You do understand you are mistaken?

DO400

Foshan ShuangMuSanLin electronics Co., LTD. founded in 2009 which located in Shenzhen, China. And our branch company VMV Technology(HK) Company Limited registered in HK in 2013. Our company is specialized in the audio DAC, stereo headphone amplifier, power amplifier, and with own R&D...

www.smsl-audio.com

http://www.loxjie-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=162

As I have said 1:1 in hardware sense
I do appreciate your level of knowledge and I would not like to be sound as not ellegant.

Concerning display failures, that I have missed aswell. I do hope they work it out in latest rev.

My precious
"The SMSL DL400 is a functionally identical device, though it lacks the high-quality 4-pin XLR headphone output"

I think it’s obvious to everyone that *you* are the one who is mistaken here.
The SMSL DO400, Loxjie D40 Pro, Loxjie D60, and SMSL DL400 are fundamentally based on the same design; this has long been known and is no secret. A look inside the units makes this very clear.
Differences exist regarding the chassis, display, buttons, controls, firmware, and the components used—especially the capacitors—as well as slight variations in board layout, PCB quality, Bluetooth, and connectivity.
The DL400’s lack of a 4-pin XLR headphone jack is a glaring omission; how exactly am I mistaken about that?
SMSL DL400
DL400 Thread

There are also qualitative differences between the PCBs and their component populations. None of the four boards are identical; they differ in layout, component selection, and PCB quality.
The DO400 clearly boasts the highest-quality components, followed by the DL400.
With the Loxjie D40 Pro, costs were cut in several areas regarding components—particularly capacitors—and the layout was altered accordingly (e.g., swapping through-hole capacitors for SMD types). The D60 is clearly based on the D40 Pro, as it shares those same cost-cutting measures while incorporating additional ones.
This explains why the D60 can be sold at the lowest price—likely also because it sells the poorest.

 

[SidiousX]

It sems that I'am.
I hate to bash myself, but what to do...
I have slipped into SMSL trap, "to many notes" paraphrased the Genius of "Mozart"
No exuses from my side tho, still from the start I have written about DO400

I do appreciate your diving into pcb.
I will check it out personally aswell.
My bottomline remains the same vide price DO400 vs. D60.
I do hope.
I will see soon enoungh.

Regarding this case I do hope you will accept my apologies.

 

[NTTY]

I never got into inside of D40 Pro.
I'd assume the differences are minor, still they are.
HP amp accoridng the specs is weaker.

I did not see a difference in specs and I measured the exact same for the few measurements I performed (SINAD in low gain and SNR at 50mVrms) between the D40 Pro and the SMSL DO400. Same from Amir, by the way.
The DAC is slightly down though, especially because of low correlated noise with signal at low frequencies. This is where the cost cuts show.

 

[Hapo]

...FWIW I sent mine back...

 

[NTTY]

...FWIW I sent mine back...

Which one? The D40 or D60?

 

[Hapo]

...sorry...the SMSL DO400...it was functional but there were things I didn't like aboot it...TBPH I cannot recall what those things were now but they must have been annoying...

...I don't recall that it a was budget feeling bug fest that did not deliver what it promised, and it did not arrive DOA...

 

[Roland68]

I never got into inside of D40 Pro.
I'd assume the differences are minor, still they are.
HP amp accoridng the specs is weaker.

I did not see a difference in specs and I measured the exact same for the few measurements I performed (SINAD in low gain and SNR at 50mVrms) between the D40 Pro and the SMSL DO400. Same from Amir, by the way.
The DAC is slightly down though, especially because of low correlated noise with signal at low frequencies. This is where the cost cuts show.

All four units utilize the same headphone amplifier circuitry, featuring four TPA6120A2 chips. While output power should be identical across all devices, gain levels may vary.
The measured power output actually exceeds the rated figures—though the specifications provided for these four units are not particularly meaningful (given variables like SE/balanced output, THD+N, etc.).

However, the power output falls significantly short of Topping devices equipped with four TPA6120A2 chips (such as the L70, A90, and L30 II in SE mode).

 

[SidiousX]

I did not see a difference in specs and I measured the exact same for the few measurements I performed (SINAD in low gain and SNR at 50mVrms) between the D40 Pro and the SMSL DO400. Same from Amir, by the way.
The DAC is slightly down though, especially because of low correlated noise with signal at low frequencies. This is where the cost cuts show.

For sure in specs there is a difference with HP AMP.
Ofcourse knowing their polictics that might be only gimmick.
I could only say if that is in 100% correct D40Pro vide price would be the best choice.
Tho I never track the price changes of D40 Pro, I was at first focused on price changes in DO400 and then D60.

 

[SidiousX]

...sorry...the SMSL DO400...it was functional but there were things I didn't like aboot it...TBPH I cannot recall what those things were now but they must have been annoying...

...I don't recall that it a was budget feeling bug fest that did not deliver what it promised, and it did not arrive DOA...

And now reffering to @Hapo
Mistake was always bound to heppen.
I know this, by my hands have gone thru quite a few DO400 always nice&dandy.
I do that for family and meine alte kameraden, so mind you no business affiliation here.
If it was otherwise I would not praised DO400 as I had from its debute.
To be honest I'm rather suprised, that after all these years there is no real competitor in price range.
Despite of copycats within its own china mogul.

Reading your follow up, what was the exact problem?
In this price range I do not see it.

 

[NTTY]

For sure in specs there is a difference with HP AMP.

Sorry, you say there is a difference, the website says they are the same and measurements too. So, can you please be more specific, for instance point where you found that?

 

[SidiousX]

Sorry, you say there is a difference, the website says they are the same and measurements too. So, can you please be more specific, for instance point where you found that?

Not in the measurments, there is one in the specifications of HP Amp.
One sec.

Edit:
Here we go, see attachment.

And to be precise I am not a HP guy, I am hard-core speaker guy.
Tho I do play with many high end HP's but its just not my forte.

 

[SidiousX]

@Roland68 I do understand cost-cutting its obvious.
Not only I understand it, but I do not have the problem with it.
That is why China won in audio world eons ago and they will continue to do so.
Tho my amiss of Loxjie D60 display problem, makes me wondering.
Could u be so kind and point me out to those disscussions.
I'd appreciate that, thanx in advance.

 

[Roland68]

@Roland68 I do understand cost-cutting its obvious.
Not only I understand it, but I do not have the problem with it.
That is why China won in audio world eons ago and they will continue to do so.
Tho my amiss of Loxjie D60 display problem, makes me wondering.
Could u be so kind and point me out to those disscussions.
I'd appreciate that, thanx in advance.

In my experience, Loxjie devices have historically been the ones where the most cost-cutting took place among the three companies (SMSL, Sabaj, Loxjie).

I am not aware of a specific thread dedicated to the D60's display issues, though there have been reports here and on other forums regarding problems ranging from screen artifacts (streaks) and dead pixels to total failure. Within my circle of acquaintances, one unit arrived defective (streaks on the display, making it unreadable), and three others had to be returned within six months due to display issues. A total of five units were purchased. Since they were all bought via Amazon based on my recommendation, returning them wasn't a problem.

I simply cannot fathom this kind of cost-cutting. Saving mere cents or single-digit amounts per unit—on products with an MSRP of €400–500—only to end up having to dump the stock at half price makes no sense. Loxjie’s poor reputation in this regard certainly didn't come out of nowhere.
Topping is another example of this kind of nonsense. Topping has seriously damaged its reputation by skimping on pennies—using cheap SMD components in devices costing €600 (or more). Such savings do not justify a double-digit percentage drop in sales.

 

[NTTY]

Not in the measurments, there is one in the specifications of HP Amp.
One sec.

Edit:
Here we go, see attachment.

And to be precise I am not a HP guy, I am hard-core speaker guy.
Tho I do play with many high end HP's but its just not my forte.

They are the same, impedance changes and power is halved.

And again, measurents showed the same output power, as well as specs, but Loxjie publishes output power in balanced mode only for the D40 pro.

D40 Pro:

D60:

They oddly report a weaker DR in unbalanced mode (rear RCA) for the D60. I can check what it is for the D40.

 

[SidiousX]

In my experience, Loxjie devices have historically been the ones where the most cost-cutting took place among the three companies (SMSL, Sabaj, Loxjie).

I am not aware of a specific thread dedicated to the D60's display issues, though there have been reports here and on other forums regarding problems ranging from screen artifacts (streaks) and dead pixels to total failure. Within my circle of acquaintances, one unit arrived defective (streaks on the display, making it unreadable), and three others had to be returned within six months due to display issues. A total of five units were purchased. Since they were all bought via Amazon based on my recommendation, returning them wasn't a problem.

I simply cannot fathom this kind of cost-cutting. Saving mere cents or single-digit amounts per unit—on products with an MSRP of €400–500—only to end up having to dump the stock at half price makes no sense. Loxjie’s poor reputation in this regard certainly didn't come out of nowhere.
Topping is another example of this kind of nonsense. Topping has seriously damaged its reputation by skimping on pennies—using cheap SMD components in devices costing €600 (or more). Such savings do not justify a double-digit percentage drop in sales.

Considerning bottomline, I do have economic high education.
But i assume you do know that many china moguls sell their hardware often even under the price of parts cost.
Xiaomi was one of the great example in the old days.
I do understand fragmentiations made by conglomerat SMSL / Loxje / SABAJ.
They just eat let say 30% of the market, killing other producers along the way,
They know they will win because they not have to compete with firms which are bound to EU ergulations.
Yet pls do not forget that audio firms which in the eyes of average Joe are not own by china's, when in reality they indeed are own by china's corpos.
Audiolab et consortes...

 

[Roland68]

Considerning bottomline, I do have economic high education.
But i assume you do know that many china moguls sell their hardware often even under the price of parts cost.
Xiaomi was one of the great example in the old days.
I do understand fragmentiations made by conglomerat SMSL / Loxje / SABAJ.
They just eat let say 30% of the market, killing other producers along the way,
They know they will win because they not have to compete with firms which are bound to EU ergulations.
Yet pls do not forget that audio firms which in the eyes of average Joe are not own by china's, when in reality they indeed are own by china's corpos.
Audiolab et consortes...

Yes, I am unfortunately aware of the practice of subsidizing such products to sell them at low prices; as a manufacturer, we in the industry were affected by this ourselves for a time.
However, I do not believe the audio industry is of enough interest for that to happen there. Most products are priced using standard cost calculations.
Yes, generally speaking, many renowned audio companies have been sold over the last 10 years—for example, to Gentex Corporation (USA), Harman/Samsung (South Korea), Audiotonix (UK), Barco (Belgium), inMusic Brands (USA), and so on.

Audiolab, however, is not Chinese-owned; it belongs to the International Audio Group (IAG), which is based in the UK and owned by two Taiwanese brothers. The group also includes brands such as Wharfedale, Castle Acoustics, Leak, Mission, QUAD, and 8audio.
They own production facilities in both the UK and China and collaborate with developers worldwide. There is also a German subsidiary.

 

[SidiousX]

Do not get me wrong.
I'am the old man from the old days suprisigly keeping absolute hearing, which to this days is the same suprise for me as for the next man.
To the point i wish it would be better, unfornatully it will ever not be.
I assume that some ppl has other weaknes, I do have mine for SMSL.
Still they won, if it will be mine SMSL, or for many others Topping, we have lost completely as audio civilistion.
Trust me I would like to EU firms to win,but they have lost the race eons ago.
It was not even the Genius of SMSL who killed them.
It was the pure Genius of Audio-GD in sense of pricing.

 

[NTTY]

They oddly report a weaker DR in unbalanced mode (rear RCA) for the D60. I can check what it is for the D40.

Done, the D40 Pro shows the below Dynamic range, with volume at +2dB, meaning the 0dB = 2.5Vrms:

These results reduce by 2dB when the volume is set to 00 (i.e. 2Vrms max output).

 

[ejr]

In my experience, Loxjie devices have historically been the ones where the most cost-cutting took place among the three companies (SMSL, Sabaj, Loxjie).

I am not aware of a specific thread dedicated to the D60's display issues, though there have been reports here and on other forums regarding problems ranging from screen artifacts (streaks) and dead pixels to total failure. Within my circle of acquaintances, one unit arrived defective (streaks on the display, making it unreadable), and three others had to be returned within six months due to display issues. A total of five units were purchased. Since they were all bought via Amazon based on my recommendation, returning them wasn't a problem.

I simply cannot fathom this kind of cost-cutting. Saving mere cents or single-digit amounts per unit—on products with an MSRP of €400–500—only to end up having to dump the stock at half price makes no sense. Loxjie’s poor reputation in this regard certainly didn't come out of nowhere.
Topping is another example of this kind of nonsense. Topping has seriously damaged its reputation by skimping on pennies—using cheap SMD components in devices costing €600 (or more). Such savings do not justify a double-digit percentage drop in sales.

Good for those who got a replacement. I was never able to get a response and I bought mine directly from the company.