Exactly right.
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SMSL DO400 DAC & HP Amp Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Cosmos APU (Notch) + Scaler (Buffer) + ADCiso Grade 0 (ADC):
The dashboard shows the best channel (Left), the other one has a THD+N of -127.3dB. That means the DO400 has an average SINAD of 127.4dB. which is 1.4dB better than the previous best I measured from the Topping D50 III.
The dashboard shows the best channel (Left), the other one has a THD+N of -127.3dB. That means the DO400 has an average SINAD of 127.4dB. which is 1.4dB better than the previous best I measured from the Topping D50 III.
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In my humble opinion, harmonics are almost never high enough in level in consumer audio amplifiers to actually be heard at normal listening levels (ie, before the point where clipping begins). As such, the belief that “euphonic distortion” is responsible for tube amp sound is an oft-repeated myth that won’t die, but does not hold up to scientific scrutiny—one that was probably spawned by tube guitar amplification where audible distortion is produced purposely. What is really responsible for tube amp sound is frequency roll off at both ends of the spectrum and poor damping factor leading to problems reproducing bass frequencies.
There is a lot to what you say but in the real world some of the most popular tube amps have real problems in both the distortion and linearity areas. Maybe by design even? This is was a very popular amp during it's run and given a highly rated review at Stereophile.
PrimaLuna Dialogue Seven Tube Amp Review
PrimaLuna Dialogue Seven Tube Amp Review
This is a review, listening test and detailed measurements of the PriamLUna Dialogue Seven tube monoblock power amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and cost $2,747 when it came out in late 2000s. Fit and finish seems excellent. My back unfortunately is not so situated and burdened...
www.audiosciencereview.com
"I tested the amp using my lab Infinity Reference 253 tower speaker. As I have heard before (with high impedance tube amps), the bass was flabby and overloaded. It was quite annoying and obvious artifact. Whether your speaker will do the same depends on its impedance curve. Ignoring that, I cranked up the volume. Up to medium listening level if was "OK" but above that high frequency distortion started to increase proportional with volume control. This was a super annoying effect where at limit it sounded like the tweeter shouting at you." Amir
I heard this same tube amplifier at an audio shop and was not impressed! Not a good value for the money at all.There is a lot to what you say but in the real world some of the most popular tube amps have real problems in both the distortion and linearity areas. Maybe by design even? This is was a very popular amp during it's run and given a highly rated review at Stereophile.
PrimaLuna Dialogue Seven Tube Amp Review
PrimaLuna Dialogue Seven Tube Amp Review
This is a review, listening test and detailed measurements of the PriamLUna Dialogue Seven tube monoblock power amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and cost $2,747 when it came out in late 2000s. Fit and finish seems excellent. My back unfortunately is not so situated and burdened...
"I tested the amp using my lab Infinity Reference 253 tower speaker. As I have heard before (with high impedance tube amps), the bass was flabby and overloaded. It was quite annoying and obvious artifact. Whether your speaker will do the same depends on its impedance curve. Ignoring that, I cranked up the volume. Up to medium listening level if was "OK" but above that high frequency distortion started to increase proportional with volume control. This was a super annoying effect where at limit it sounded like the tweeter shouting at you." Amir
The PrimaLuna Dialogue Seven tube amplifier is celebrated by quite a few audiophiles I know. They think it "resolves more detail"
It was the PrimaLuna I was listening to with Thiels CS 3.7 loudspeakers at an Audioshow in Irvine, CA. I liked the first 10 minutes of its sound, then I began to get fatigued afterwards. I think tubes are best used (i.e., sound best) in preamps with signal levels within their limits and no output transformers.There is a lot to what you say but in the real world some of the most popular tube amps have real problems in both the distortion and linearity areas. Maybe by design even? This is was a very popular amp during it's run and given a highly rated review at Stereophile.
PrimaLuna Dialogue Seven Tube Amp Review
PrimaLuna Dialogue Seven Tube Amp Review
This is a review, listening test and detailed measurements of the PriamLUna Dialogue Seven tube monoblock power amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and cost $2,747 when it came out in late 2000s. Fit and finish seems excellent. My back unfortunately is not so situated and burdened...
"I tested the amp using my lab Infinity Reference 253 tower speaker. As I have heard before (with high impedance tube amps), the bass was flabby and overloaded. It was quite annoying and obvious artifact. Whether your speaker will do the same depends on its impedance curve. Ignoring that, I cranked up the volume. Up to medium listening level if was "OK" but above that high frequency distortion started to increase proportional with volume control. This was a super annoying effect where at limit it sounded like the tweeter shouting at you." Amir
Well IMHO, tubes are best used to keep classic components in a collectors system in peak operating condition. Before my retirement and move to FL, I had 3 or 4 fun systems around the house for background entertainment. Tunes in the basement, kitchen, garage all ran off some old classic gear.
But for a TOTL Hi-Fi using modern high resolution digital sources, tube gear really no longer has a place. I want to hear all the incredible inner detail and extreme frequency extension, with the zero noise that we now have available to us without audible distortion or alteration. Also consistent performance and reliability are important to me, I no longer want any nagging concerns that the system doesn't sound exactly the same today as it did last week, stuff we lived with for the decades before modern SS designs.
YMMV
I remember hearing 300B tubes for the first time a few years ago in a Western Electric tube amplifier, the 91E, and was not impressed. Indeed, modern SS designs are all we need now for consistent performance overtime.
But they sure are kool looking tubes, specially when running in a dark room.
I lived just down the street from the birthplace for 6 decades,
Oh, and Al Capone's headquarters at the Hawthrone Inn too !
I'm truly glad to see this reviews, even after all these years.
I'm assuming I was one of the first praising DO400 here, as I had got this one soon after the premiere.
Now after all these years not only one review, but two, one after another.
Thanks @Amir and @NTTY for their hard work and spreading audio knowledge.
For sure DO400 beeing so, so "exclusive" for Aoshida, had never enough recognictions in audiophile world.
Anyhu, writing now, unfortunatelly there were some poor / untrue comments opinions in this topic.
Tho I could only confirm great comments of @Roland68 @nanook, which are similar to what I have written all those years ago, when I have got my DO400 after the premiere.
To these day I'm consider SMSL DO400 as one of the best DAC/HP Amp in price range up to USD 500, but do consider point.2 below.
Two things which are ommised.
1. Those years ago I have written aswell:
If SMSL was smart enough, they will add Infineon modules to DO400 and make this into their best AIO, ofcourse with pricing it attractive.
Unfortunatelly they were not and my advice from all those years ago was not heeded by SMSL, truly pity.
2. Now a days china mogul playing games as they always played, one corpo, but not one corpo i.e. SMSL / LOXJIE / Sabaj, from some time there is the better / cheaper alternative Loxije D60.
Loxjie D60 is the exact hardware copy of SMSL DO400 under name Loxije,.
Considering the fact, that on the last hi-fi express promo mirroring Amz Prime days it was up 4grab for merely USD279,99 i will recommend to go for Loxije D60 instead of SMSL SO400 as the price gap is too wide.
At that same time Aoshida (which I do appeciate btw.), has their own promo for DO400 which was USD 474.
For me decision should be obvious.
I'm assuming I was one of the first praising DO400 here, as I had got this one soon after the premiere.
Now after all these years not only one review, but two, one after another.
Thanks @Amir and @NTTY for their hard work and spreading audio knowledge.
For sure DO400 beeing so, so "exclusive" for Aoshida, had never enough recognictions in audiophile world.
Anyhu, writing now, unfortunatelly there were some poor / untrue comments opinions in this topic.
Tho I could only confirm great comments of @Roland68 @nanook, which are similar to what I have written all those years ago, when I have got my DO400 after the premiere.
To these day I'm consider SMSL DO400 as one of the best DAC/HP Amp in price range up to USD 500, but do consider point.2 below.
Two things which are ommised.
1. Those years ago I have written aswell:
If SMSL was smart enough, they will add Infineon modules to DO400 and make this into their best AIO, ofcourse with pricing it attractive.
Unfortunatelly they were not and my advice from all those years ago was not heeded by SMSL, truly pity.
2. Now a days china mogul playing games as they always played, one corpo, but not one corpo i.e. SMSL / LOXJIE / Sabaj, from some time there is the better / cheaper alternative Loxije D60.
Loxjie D60 is the exact hardware copy of SMSL DO400 under name Loxije,.
Considering the fact, that on the last hi-fi express promo mirroring Amz Prime days it was up 4grab for merely USD279,99 i will recommend to go for Loxije D60 instead of SMSL SO400 as the price gap is too wide.
At that same time Aoshida (which I do appeciate btw.), has their own promo for DO400 which was USD 474.
For me decision should be obvious.
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I see that as a preamp / DSP feature
and personally would prefer to not buy that integrated as "a DAC"
until you get up to like Wiim integration level.
Schiit' Forkbeard makes it an option though, Mimir and Eitr 2 the most inexpensive hosts.
A nice LC implementation too.
Also in Vestri, but there not as adjustable a curve.
Pre-amps with Loudness - OSD Pre-1 ?
Most of my source-switchers and volume controls are analog-only, which is my preference. I am also frugal, some months actually poor 8-( I like having physical tone controls, and miss the old variable loudness curve feature, ideally automatically coupled with the volume level, but I guess that...
www.audiosciencereview.com
DAC / HP Amp / Pre, that is correct.I see that as a preamp / DSP feature
and personally would prefer to not buy that integrated as "a DAC"
until you get up to like Wiim integration level.
Schiit' Forkbeard makes it an option though, Mimir and Eitr 2 the most inexpensive hosts.
A nice LC implementation too.
Also in Vestri, but there not as adjustable a curve.
Pre-amps with Loudness - OSD Pre-1 ?
Most of my source-switchers and volume controls are analog-only, which is my preference. I am also frugal, some months actually poor 8-( I like having physical tone controls, and miss the old variable loudness curve feature, ideally automatically coupled with the volume level, but I guess that...
Pairing it (especially with Loxjie D60 at promo price) with:
AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NCX Power Amplifier NcoreX NCx252MP
AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NCX Power Amplifier NcoreX NCx252MP
The Audiophonics AP300-S250NCX is a stereo amplifier based on a Hypex NcoreX NCx252MP amplifier module. It is ideal for providing a significant power reserve (2x250W @ 4Ω) without sacrificing sound reproduction quality.
www.audiophonics.fr
U'd get one of the best combo in price.
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I thought it was the D40 Pro. Same DAC though. I’m currently measuring it. It seems to be the same with a much simplified user interface.
Roland68
Master Contributor
The Loxjie D40 is the more affordable version, featuring a simpler chassis and display, along with more direct-access function buttons.
The Loxjie D60 hit the market significantly later. Unfortunately, there have already been several reports of display failures with the D60; the quality of the display itself has also drawn repeated criticism.
The SMSL DL400 is a functionally identical device, though it lacks the high-quality 4-pin XLR headphone output.
Using an Infineon amplifier stage would not do justice to the DO400 at all; furthermore, such chips are unfortunately more prone to failure than, for instance, the TPA325x series or other amplifier solutions.
The chassis would also need to be much larger to accommodate the additional power supply unit. In a relatively compact housing, this would negatively impact the DO400's performance measurements.
An external amplifier makes more sense and offers advantages in the event of a failure. You can pick up a Fosi V3 Stereo for around €50 (excluding the power supply); ultimately, it takes up no more space than an all-in-one unit but offers far greater flexibility.
I never got into inside of D40 Pro.
I'd assume the differences are minor, still they are.
HP amp accoridng the specs is weaker.
Aestethics of Loxjie is more basic than SMLS, question of taste I'd assume.
D60 is 1:1 exact copy of Genius DO400 at lower price.
This latest hi-fi express promo USD288 "forced" me to get Loxjie D60, even only to compare it with its original DO400, which ofcourse was not neccesary, but I love this game.
If have a choice in the same price, ofc I would recommended DO400, but as I have said now a days price gap even in promos is to wide.
Vide interface, yes I agree.
SMSL is simple nice&dandy.
Yes its required now a days to watch it closely.
Yes I personally missed the Loxjie D60, ergo copy of DO400 premiere.
I do understand politicsts of this china conglomerat, but for average user it must me confusing,
The best example is what I have provided.
Aoshida latest promo of DO400 USD474
hi-fi express latest promo Loxjie D60 USD288
Both hardware are 1:1 the same.
Most of average ppl audio choices are not as reasonable as mine.
Vide:
"Using an Infineon amplifier stage would not do justice to the DO400 at all; furthermore, such chips are unfortunately more prone to failure than, for instance, the TPA325x series or other amplifier solutions."
We have to agree to disagree, I prefer Infineon chips over TPA.
But that was not the point.
Point was adding AMP chips to DO400 and pricing it accordingly would make one of the best AIO in the market, that was the point.
Vide:
"The Loxjie D60 hit the market significantly later. Unfortunately, there have already been several reports of display failures with the D60; the quality of the display itself has also drawn repeated criticism.
The SMSL DL400 is a functionally identical device, though it lacks the high-quality 4-pin XLR headphone output."
You do understand you are mistaken?
DO400
Foshan ShuangMuSanLin electronics Co., LTD. founded in 2009 which located in Shenzhen, China. And our branch company VMV Technology(HK) Company Limited registered in HK in 2013. Our company is specialized in the audio DAC, stereo headphone amplifier, power amplifier, and with own R&D...
www.smsl-audio.com
I do appreciate your level of knowledge and I would not like to be sound as not ellegant.
Concerning display failures, that I have missed aswell. I do hope they work it out in latest rev.
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Roland68
Master Contributor
What exactly am I supposed to have been mistaken about?
SMSL has far too many overlapping models with similar architectures, specs, and market placement.
They need to get a hold of their product development and marketing. Otherwise, there is going to be confusion among purchasers as to which product they should buy.
My precious
"The SMSL DL400 is a functionally identical device, though it lacks the high-quality 4-pin XLR headphone output"
I have refered to the SMSL interface, not to the play you are reffering to.
For this we have the agrement.
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