SMSL DO400 DAC & HP Amp Review

[Sal1950]

Are you referring to the optical interface on the DO400? It works perfectly—even with a TV.

Not in particular, you were just discussing the various input types but hadn't mentioned Optical.
Seems like toslink had picked up a bad rap in Hi Fi over the years, never grasped why, it seemed to offer some advantages and only a few disadvantages. Mainly high speeds but my tower MB's to the DC-1 has always been able to do 24/192 without issue, I hear some can't ?

The issue with the display is, of course, a shame.

I've read it's a common issue on old DC-1's, mines 11yo, too bad. Doesn't seem to effect anything else so all's good for now, I don't use it for much anywho.
It's crap like this makes me leery of anything that depends on displays, even worse IMO are touch displays. Can you see all of todays modern cars when they get 10+ years old and all those computer controlled display functions start to go wonky?

 

[Roland68]

Not in particular, you were just discussing the various input types but hadn't mentioned Optical.
Seems like toslink had picked up a bad rap in Hi Fi over the years, never grasped why, it seemed to offer some advantages and only a few disadvantages. Mainly high speeds but my tower MB's to the DC-1 has always been able to do 24/192 without issue, I hear some can't ?


I've read it's a common issue on old DC-1's, mines 11yo, too bad. Doesn't seem to effect anything else so all's good for now, I don't use it for much anywho.
It's crap like this makes me leery of anything that depends on displays, even worse IMO are touch displays. Can you see all of todays modern cars when they get 10+ years old and all those computer controlled display functions start to go wonky?

Because all the interfaces fall under the SPDIF umbrella and transmit the same data, regardless of whether it's via AES, coaxial, BNC, or Toslink.
On the DO400, all SPDIF interfaces work at 24/196, including Toslink.

The problem with Toslink is that while Toshiba created a good standard, hardly anyone adheres to it.
Original Toshiba Toslink plugs and sockets are made entirely of plastic. But some idiot had the bright idea of adding a gold-plated metal tube to the last few millimeters of the plug, and audiophiles think that's great. Unfortunately, this leads to unwanted and uncontrollable reflections. Who would have thought that gold-plated metal parts reflect light?
Then there are these great Toslink cables with metal plugs that damage and loosen the sockets, causing the plugs to no longer fit at a precise 90° angle.
The penultimate issue is the use of cheap and poor-quality POF material, usually combined with poor or no polishing of the end faces. Most of the time, the POF conductors are simply cut and not polished.
The ridiculous thing is that high-quality POF material costs less than 50 cents per meter in industry, so how many cents are you actually saving by using even cheaper material?
The final issue is the use of inferior and/or cheap circuits/converters for the interface.

All of these points have severely damaged Toslink's reputation, solely due to greed and technical incompetence. My original Toshiba Toslink cable, over 35 years old, still manages 24/196; now that was quality.

 

[daniboun]

]

Well, I have some very bad news for you.
There are only a few manufacturers left who build high-quality equipment and who actually care about things like support, warranties, and affordable repairs—even after the warranty period has expired.

In France, we have extended warranties that compensate for the shortcomings of manufacturer warranties. This provides a total of 5 years of warranty coverage, including 2 years legally mandated by the manufacturer: if the product is irreparable, it is reimbursed. Expect to pay around 7% of the total price.

 

[respice finem]

Because all the interfaces fall under the SPDIF umbrella and transmit the same data, regardless of whether it's via AES, coaxial, BNC, or Toslink.
On the DO400, all SPDIF interfaces work at 24/196, including Toslink.

The problem with Toslink is that while Toshiba created a good standard, hardly anyone adheres to it.
Original Toshiba Toslink plugs and sockets are made entirely of plastic. But some idiot had the bright idea of adding a gold-plated metal tube to the last few millimeters of the plug, and audiophiles think that's great. Unfortunately, this leads to unwanted and uncontrollable reflections. Who would have thought that gold-plated metal parts reflect light?
Then there are these great Toslink cables with metal plugs that damage and loosen the sockets, causing the plugs to no longer fit at a precise 90° angle.
The penultimate issue is the use of cheap and poor-quality POF material, usually combined with poor or no polishing of the end faces. Most of the time, the POF conductors are simply cut and not polished.
The ridiculous thing is that high-quality POF material costs less than 50 cents per meter in industry, so how many cents are you actually saving by using even cheaper material?
The final issue is the use of inferior and/or cheap circuits/converters for the interface.

All of these points have severely damaged Toslink's reputation, solely due to greed and technical incompetence. My original Toshiba Toslink cable, over 35 years old, still manages 24/196; now that was quality.

This, and, some recent (non-Toshiba) Toslink sockets are too wide, and don't provide proper hold/seal. In my latest ASUS board, I had to wrap teflon tape around the plug, in order to stop it from falling out. This plug is a tight fit with original Toshiba sockets.
And so the standard is going down slowly...

 

[daniboun]

for now, I don't use it for much anywho.
It's crap like this makes me leery of anything that depends on displays, even worse IMO are touch displays. Can you see all of todays modern cars when they get 10+ years old and all those computer controlled display functions start to go wonky?

Technological progress is "designed" to make people as dependent as possible on manufacturers (it's a business strategy, and planned obsolescence is part of it, for example). I'm an IT specialist for a multinational corporation, and I could give you a ton of examples in my field...
In short, while evolution may be beneficial, it is always accompanied by a "negative" effect.

 

[Music1969]

@amirm no IMD vs level? ESS IMD hump ?

 

[Sal1950]

My original Toshiba Toslink cable, over 35 years old, still manages 24/196; now that was quality.

Fully agree that the plug/socket interface can be the weak point, with cable builders using big, heavy gold plated metal male plugs. The average user hasn't a clue that the interface doesn't require any electrical connection, in fact it's complete isolation of the ground is it's greatest virtue.
Over the years general computer interface connections have deteriorated in a number of other ways. The lack of any type of locking feature for most modern designs is junk IMO, remember when they used to have thumbscrews to keep them from falling out.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Hi all,
Only one word : boring !
I hope one day we'll have a DAC with headphone amp that sounds really poor !
But for years now we have DACs that compete in the same league with no audible differences.
So this is getting boring... Yes all DACs now sound good and you can choose according to aesthetics and/or features (connectivity, headphone amp included, decent preamp...)
Regards

 

[daniboun]

I hope one day we'll have a DAC with headphone amp that sounds really poor !

Just ask ))))

Schiit Magni Mesh DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Schiit Magni headphone amplifier with its optional MESH DAC module. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $199 including that option. I previous reviewed the Schiit Magni with its off-the-shelf DAC IC. That unit had generally good...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Ajax]

Well, I have some very bad news for you.
There are only a few manufacturers left who build high-quality equipment and who actually care about things like support, warranties, and affordable repairs—even after the warranty period has expired.
The names that immediately come to mind are Lake People / Violectric and RME, as well as Teac and Tascam. And even though I’ve been in the industry for nearly 40 years and know a great many companies, the list gets pretty thin right there.
Many formerly excellent companies no longer exist, or have been sold off—once, twice, or even more times—to the point where nothing remains of their original ethos. Other companies have withdrawn from the market entirely—Sony, for instance, among others.
Even a renowned manufacturer like Yamaha hasn't exactly covered itself in glory in recent years; for example, expensive SACD players purchased within the last decade can no longer be repaired.

As you can see from the prices of the aforementioned devices, there is also a significant price difference involved. If SMSL and Topping were to meet all these criteria, they wouldn't be nearly as affordable as they are now—because the potential sales volume depends heavily on the selling price. Every 10% price hike would cost them 10% of their sales.
On the other hand, however, these high sales volumes are essential for spreading the very high development costs across as many units as possible, and for securing lower production costs and better purchasing terms—without which such low selling prices would simply not be possible in the first place.
Do you see the vicious cycle?

Furthermore, customer-friendly warranties, customer-oriented support, development processes designed to minimize errors, extensive long-term testing, and the use of superior components—along with rigorous production quality control—are all far more expensive than most buyers can possibly imagine.
In most cases, a price increase of 50% to 100% wouldn't even be enough. For instance, a Topping DX5 II could hardly be manufactured at a price lower than that of an RME ADI-2 DAC—assuming all requirements were met—quite apart from the fact that neither Topping nor SMSL possesses the necessary know-how, as that is something one must work hard to earn.

You can add "Benchmark Media" to your list of manufacturers who build high quality equipment. I have had 3 of their DACs with no issues whatsoever over a 15 year period. Great / innovative engineers and very helpful when approached by less technically proficient people like myself.

Terrific company.

 

[Roland68]

Hi all,
Only one word : boring !
I hope one day we'll have a DAC with headphone amp that sounds really poor !
But for years now we have DACs that compete in the same league with no audible differences.
So this is getting boring... Yes all DACs now sound good and you can choose according to aesthetics and/or features (connectivity, headphone amp included, decent preamp...)
Regards

Well, it’s just like with watches.
You can buy watches for 5,000, 10,000, 50,000, 100,000, or even a million—with stunning designs, rare and expensive materials, extra features, and so on—but none of them tells the time any more accurately than a $10 watch.

And somewhere in between—regardless of the price—you’ll also find watches that do nothing but cause trouble: constantly running incorrectly or stopping altogether, leaving you late for everything.

 

[PristineSound]

I don't get why they don't add a steamer to it so it could compete with WiiM Ultra

Com'on that's an easy answer. They need a way to offer another product, on top of 274 product offerings.

 

[Teepeex]

Vskutku, máš pravdu, je to fialová barva, dali na to 5 (!!!) různých barev!!!

)

 

[xaviescacs]

Yes, we know, you can produce as many SOTA DACs as you want. Now, please, focus on functionality. Once again, take a look at the ADI-2... wait... I'm completely outdated! OMG! It's not on sale anymore! Wait a sec... Have they won? These tasteless childish designs SINAD chasers with I²S outputs with no functionality and generic remotes have won?

 

[Sal1950]

Your Emotiva DC-1 was far ahead of its time, featuring analog Muses volume control and an additional analog input.

The analog input is a great feature, there even was a expansion SP-1 that would add 3 analog inputs and a MC/MM phono amp, turning the pair into a full featured, high performance preamp/headphone and phono product. IMO one of Emotiva's best product ideas. When the DC-1 was discontinued a follow-up DC-2 was promised to replace it, a product that never materialized.

 

[NTTY]

Hi all,
Only one word : boring !
I hope one day we'll have a DAC with headphone amp that sounds really poor !
But for years now we have DACs that compete in the same league with no audible differences.
So this is getting boring... Yes all DACs now sound good and you can choose according to aesthetics and/or features (connectivity, headphone amp included, decent preamp...)
Regards

DACs have been sounding good from the very first one

 

[xanalog]

you don't seem particularly knowledgeable about USB,...

Any further discussion on this matter strikes me as pointless.

You didn't understand my last post at all—or perhaps you simply chose not to.

There seems to be a trend in these ad hominems...

 

[Roland68]

There seems to be a trend in these ad hominems...

It is just like posting things in a scientific forum that simply aren't true—thereby confusing less knowledgeable users and feeding them false information.
I know that my urge to technically correct such things is absolutely reprehensible, but sometimes I just can't help myself .

 

[MrBlueSky4470]

I absolutely do not understand how such a completely superfluous thing can receive a recommendation, but an innovative device like the Wiim Pro with tons of features and more than adequate sound quality does not.

Edit: "poor" from me

 

[Bleib]

I absolutely do not understand how such a completely superfluous thing can receive a recommendation, but an innovative device like the Wiim Pro with tons of features and more than adequate sound quality does not.

Edit: "poor" from me

Well, the Wiim should have better analog-in performance..