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SMSL DO200 Pro DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 5 2.9%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 12 7.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 58 34.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 95 55.9%

  • Total voters
    170
Well, if some want to argue that $350 for a quality DAC is expensive, I would submit they are wrong.
It kind of is,.can get the same performance for half the price and headphone amp as well..
 
Hi,

Sorry for the dumb question but...

What is the point for those manufacturers like Topping or SMSL to release a new DAC every month when the benefit from the new model is measurably marginal at best and technically not audible in any case ?

Unless of course a lot of people still have no DACs at all and would like to jump in that train and you have to offer a product newer than your competitor's...

I think we've reached a threshold that is set so high that any improvement will go unnoticed. So what we all hope for now is a really BAD DAC. That would be a refreshing change :)

But manufacturers : get your efforts on other products : now you have the DAC? get a decent headphone amp/amp/DAP/Streamer... The choices are qui numerous with wider margins for improvement...
 
Hi,

Sorry for the dumb question but...

What is the point for those manufacturers like Topping or SMSL to release a new DAC every month when the benefit from the new model is measurably marginal at best and technically not audible in any case ?

Unless of course a lot of people still have no DACs at all and would like to jump in that train and you have to offer a product newer than your competitor's...

I think we've reached a threshold that is set so high that any improvement will go unnoticed. So what we all hope for now is a really BAD DAC. That would be a refreshing change :)

But manufacturers : get your efforts on other products : now you have the DAC? get a decent headphone amp/amp/DAP/Streamer... The choices are qui numerous with wider margins for improvement...
We and others ask that question near daily. It seems obvious now that DACs are a solved problem. Ad features to them please! :D
 
Well, if some want to argue that $350 for a quality DAC is expensive, I would submit they are wrong.
When you can get a DAC with the same audible performance for a tenth of the price then I'd say 350USd is quite expensive. Of course I/O and features matters as well, but personally I'd never pay 350USD for a DAC without a DSP and only two outputs.

Sorry for the dumb question but...

What is the point for those manufacturers like Topping or SMSL to release a new DAC every month when the benefit from the new model is measurably marginal at best and technically not audible in any case ?
Quite a good question imo. I guess the answer has something to do with capitalism.
 
When you can get a DAC with the same audible performance for a tenth of the price then I'd say 350USd is quite expensive. Of course I/O and features matters as well, but personally I'd never pay 350USD for a DAC without a DSP and only two outputs.
I went to a semi-fast food restaurant yesterday. Standard dishes that used to cost $11 now cost $30!!! So please excuse me if I don't think $300 is much money these days...
 
Another obvious exception are DACs targeting higher sampling rates for "high resolution" converters with extended bandwidth. A 192 kS/s DAC with 96 kHz Nyquist bandwidth will output 4 or 5 harmonics of a 20 kHz fundamental. Whether you can hear them is up to you and your system.
This is the point arguing that high resolution audio is potentially lower fidelity than redbook or 48kHz sampling rates. The high frequency content brings no audible benefit, but can inter-modulate back into the audio band, especially in the speakers.
From our friend Monty:
 
Hi,

Sorry for the dumb question but...

What is the point for those manufacturers like Topping or SMSL to release a new DAC every month when the benefit from the new model is measurably marginal at best and technically not audible in any case ?

Unless of course a lot of people still have no DACs at all and would like to jump in that train and you have to offer a product newer than your competitor's...

I think we've reached a threshold that is set so high that any improvement will go unnoticed. So what we all hope for now is a really BAD DAC. That would be a refreshing change :)

But manufacturers : get your efforts on other products : now you have the DAC? get a decent headphone amp/amp/DAP/Streamer... The choices are qui numerous with wider margins for improvement...
Maybe it's their way of making sales if every new review of a product causes a burst of sales which rapidly tails off to near zero. They have to keep releasing products and getting them reviewed to keep selling products. It must be hard work in the R&D department to keep producing new designs that perform well. Totally different to 'traditional' DAC manufacturers who develop one or two DACs and sell the same ones for several years or even a decade or more. Those R&D departments must be relatively stagnant.

We keep wanting a DAC with more & more features like a swiss army knife of hi-fi. When is a DAC not a DAC? When it becomes a pre-amp. It seems to me that when you want something that can function as a pre-amp and also includes a DAC and sub outs and DSP/bass management the choices seem more limited.
 
I went to a semi-fast food restaurant yesterday. Standard dishes that used to cost $11 now cost $30!!! So please excuse me if I don't think $300 is much money these days...
You earn three times more money in the meantime?
 
Hi,

Sorry for the dumb question but...

What is the point for those manufacturers like Topping or SMSL to release a new DAC every month when the benefit from the new model is measurably marginal at best and technically not audible in any case ?

Unless of course a lot of people still have no DACs at all and would like to jump in that train and you have to offer a product newer than your competitor's...

I think we've reached a threshold that is set so high that any improvement will go unnoticed. So what we all hope for now is a really BAD DAC. That would be a refreshing change :)

But manufacturers : get your efforts on other products : now you have the DAC? get a decent headphone amp/amp/DAP/Streamer... The choices are qui numerous with wider margins for improvement...
My theory is that they are trying to “stack” the top 20 SINAD list with their products. I assume they see this is some sort of marketing advantage
 
@amirm Could you please check or record how much this DAC makes a pop sound when a sample rate or PCM/DSD format is changed?

I wonder if SMSL has managed to fix this, as the RAW-MDA1 is far from perfect in this regard.
 
I went to a semi-fast food restaurant yesterday. Standard dishes that used to cost $11 now cost $30!!! So please excuse me if I don't think $300 is much money these days...
Yeah food is unfortunately getting more and more expensive, but that doesn't make a 300USD DAC not expensive imo.
 
isn't this topping d30pro, but smsl made? ;) (dac stack, front panel appearance)
My theory is that they are trying to “stack” the top 20 SINAD list with their products. I assume they see this is some sort of marketing advantage
interesting. i always thought of china flooding market with silly number of devices (and silly names) because they want to offer a chain of alternatives to their own products, plus it covers if they don't aim exactly to what consumers want. almost as if they don't know the market, but have resources to experiment on living organism.
 
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Yeah food is unfortunately getting more and more expensive, but that doesn't make a 300USD DAC not expensive imo.
This one is $400. Designing product lines is always interesting in terms of what features to save for which price levels. It looks like UI is the main upgrade here along with an impressive sinad, XLRs and HDMI arc.

My SMSL C200 has TRS balanced outs, internal power, headphone amp and remote control. It costs $219USD. The SMSL SU-! doesn't have any of these features but is doing an admirable job of providing quality at the more affordable end of the SMSL line at $80USD.
 
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isn't this topping d30pro

interesting. i always thought of china flooding market with silly number of devices (and silly names) because they want to offer a chain of alternatives to their own products, plus it covers if they don't aim exactly to what consumers want. almost as if they don't know the market, but have resources to experiment on living organism.

Not sure it's a "china" thing, if for example you look at the shampoo section in most supermarkets, there are 50-odd different choices which are all basically identical and produced by at most, two different companies.
The DAC thing feels sort-of similar, the illusion of choice when in fact they are all (audibly) identical and these days seem to come from only two different companies
 
When you can get a DAC with the same audible performance for a tenth of the price then I'd say 350USd is quite expensive. Of course I/O and features matters as well, but personally I'd never pay 350USD for a DAC without a DSP and only two outputs.


Quite a good question imo. I guess the answer has something to do with capitalism.

And you are entitled to that viewpoint and purchasing decision, and I will not dispute the fact one can purchase a fine measuring DAC for a good bit less than the SMSL in discussion. My point of view is that $350 in today's world for a stellar performing audio component cannot be deemed expensive relative to the price of most consumer goods or the average income level of people on this Forum.

But as always, value is in the eye and brain of the buyer.
 
Thanks for showing the big frequency response picture, showing the high frequency noise.
From a device with this perfection, i would expect a better analog low-pass-filter.
Such noise could degrade the performance of an amplifier.
 
As noted in previous posts, the DO200 uses 12x CS43131 DAC chips…
That chip was originally designed as a low-power (as in low power consumption, or high efficiency) headphone DAC/Amp. So, mainly targeting the portable devices segment.

12x CS43131 = 24x (differential) channels = 3x ES9039pro

Mouser lists the CS43131 between $19 (unit price) and $10 (per 490). They list the ES9039pro between $91 (unit or e) and $68 (per 100).

If the performances of an DAC are a “solved problem”, are we going to see the same thing we see in the PC world: the next gen. SOTA DACs are going to be based on an iteration of the DSP/DAC technology used on today’s cheap TWS’s?
 
As noted in previous posts, the DO200 uses 12x CS43131 DAC chips…
That chip was originally designed as a low-power (as in low power consumption, or high efficiency) headphone DAC/Amp. So, mainly targeting the portable devices segment.

12x CS43131 = 24x (differential) channels = 3x ES9039pro

Mouser lists the CS43131 between $19 (unit price) and $10 (per 490). They list the ES9039pro between $91 (unit or e) and $68 (per 100).

If the performances of an DAC are a “solved problem”, are we going to see the same thing we see in the PC world: the next gen. SOTA DACs are going to be based on an iteration of the DSP/DAC technology used on today’s cheap TWS’s?
Perhaps. I think the final result is what matters. If industry finds still cheaper ways to achieve perfect transparency then that’s fine. It will be a sign that the real challenges in audio fidelity are elsewhere.
 
As noted in previous posts, the DO200 uses 12x CS43131 DAC chips…
That chip was originally designed as a low-power (as in low power consumption, or high efficiency) headphone DAC/Amp. So, mainly targeting the portable devices segment.

12x CS43131 = 24x (differential) channels = 3x ES9039pro

Mouser lists the CS43131 between $19 (unit price) and $10 (per 490). They list the ES9039pro between $91 (unit or e) and $68 (per 100).

If the performances of an DAC are a “solved problem”, are we going to see the same thing we see in the PC world: the next gen. SOTA DACs are going to be based on an iteration of the DSP/DAC technology used on today’s cheap TWS’s?
The SNR of one CS43131 is 130 dB so 12 together per channel is a signal increase by a factor 12 but noise increases by sqrt(12) so SNR increases by a factor of sqrt(12) so 10.8 dB for an SNR of 140.8 dB. An ES9039Pro in mono has an SNR of 140 dB already so 2 should be comparable to 12 CS43131 in terms of noise and superior in terms of distortion.
 
@amirm Could you please check or record how much this DAC makes a pop sound when a sample rate or PCM/DSD format is changed?

I wonder if SMSL has managed to fix this, as the RAW-MDA1 is far from perfect in this regard.
To me this is a real issue that these devices should have solved by now. My WiiM Pro doesn't do it (but it has other haptic issues that make it a .... lackluster design let alone its analog shortcomings). I'm unaware of any SMSL or Topping models that have fixed it. It would be nice if someone in the know would chime in.
 
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