cavedriver
Senior Member
ok, but who makes a DAC with a subwoofer output, or better yet DSP, for <$300? I don't know of any.
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SMSL DO200 MKII DAC Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Without any form of bass management - as I've said, any DAC with balanced and unbalanced outputs and volume control can be connected to a sub.
As for a DSP the only one I can think of is the 2x4hd.
This particular device is $469, so are you looking for this level of DAC performance, inputs and DSP features for under $300? At the moment that isn't possible, but an unbalanced Flex is only $30 more than a DO200 and gets pretty close.
For under $300 you'll need to compromise somewhere.
A: DAC + stereo amplifier + speakers = sound
B: DAC sub out + active subwoofer = bass sound
A=B or A#B in time ?
Are we always sure that there will be no delays? That sound processors will not touch the signal, that they will not process it in a way known only to them? Many of the cheap streamers you have in mind have a problem with this and reprocess the signal multiple times.
Personally, I would focus on the stereo amplifier having a sub out and deciding on that, rather than outputting one signal from one device and the other signal from another device.
B: DAC sub out + active subwoofer = bass sound
A=B or A#B in time ?
Are we always sure that there will be no delays? That sound processors will not touch the signal, that they will not process it in a way known only to them? Many of the cheap streamers you have in mind have a problem with this and reprocess the signal multiple times.
Personally, I would focus on the stereo amplifier having a sub out and deciding on that, rather than outputting one signal from one device and the other signal from another device.
All the DSPs affect the signal, usually add noise etc. Not sure what streamers you mean? I wouldn't think having a power amp and sub connected to a DAC would cause any more significant time delay issues than having the sub connected to the stereo amp.
In fact it works a treat with my DO100.
After returning the Topping E70 (a great device, maybe I'll come back to it) I switched to SMSL DO200 MKII. I just picked up. We'll see which one wins in terms of sound. I miss the trigger that was in the e70 and turned on my amplifier.
Topping packs the e70 in a nicer, more exclusive package than the DO200, but the box isn't worth it. Content matters.
Edit: Topping in terms of menu ease of use, color coding of RCA outputs, use of BT 5.1. A very legible display and easier selection of functions from the remote control make the device look 2 years younger.
SMSL is lagging behind the race in terms of designers. Nevertheless, the music is very good and it has mqa in its pocket.
Topping packs the e70 in a nicer, more exclusive package than the DO200, but the box isn't worth it. Content matters.
Edit: Topping in terms of menu ease of use, color coding of RCA outputs, use of BT 5.1. A very legible display and easier selection of functions from the remote control make the device look 2 years younger.
SMSL is lagging behind the race in terms of designers. Nevertheless, the music is very good and it has mqa in its pocket.
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cavedriver
Senior Member
My point was that the DAC+subwoofer out should exist given that SMSL and others make DAC/AMPs that include subwoofer outs and that cost less than $200. Examples include SMSL's SA300 for $140 and A300 for $200. Would either of these units test well? They're cramming a lot in for <$200, including DAC, AMP, SW splitting, bluetooth, etc, etc. Also, I would agree that they may not be managing the relative delays between the ampliflied channels and the SW out, but that would be known from testing. But to be realistic here, we are seeing all sorts of technologies at ever cheaper prices so there's no reason to say "that's not possible" because minidsp is doing that and more for $500, and SMSL is doing it for <$200 at an unknown quality. All I'm asking SMSL to do is change their product configuration slightly, or for someone to explain in technical terms why the chipset cannot be configured in this way. I really don't think it's a big ask and well within the permutations of the purpose of this forum. I just hope someone from SMSL or Topping is reading these threads.
cavedriver
Senior Member
The point about processing and relative delays is well taken. If there is a technical reason why the SW are being left off the DAC's, it most like is because the companies designing the chips at the core of the cheap amps have included a SW out. For example the SMSL A300 uses an Infineon MA12070 chip for amplification. According to Infineon's website this chip is, "suitable for 2.0, 2.1, 4.0, 1.0 output stage configurations", which suggests that the SW out is a feature of this amplifier chip and not the DAC chip. The problem I have with this is that DAC's currently on the market are effectively pre-amps in that they output line-level analog signals. The sw out is properly a pre-out function. Why integrate the SW pre-amp signal into an amplification chip? There must be a reason at the circuit level for this strategy. Nonetheless, it suggests that the problem is with the makers of the DAC and amp chips that companies like SMSL are using. This website does not review the raw chips although I suppose Amir could try to set up a test bed for it (similar to the driver bench testing published on the audioxpress website). Since it does not, my request goes to companies like SMSL.
cavedriver
Senior Member
Yes, I'm testing the RCA out on my SMSL M300 to a sub, but it has the problem that you are only pulling from one channel. While that wouldn't matter for most material where the sub-bass content is probably evenly split between the channels, some modern music has bass that was mixed to swing between the channels that would suck if only one channel were played.
The 2x4hd would be viable if unbalanced outs were ok, but since I'm feeding a Hypex amp with balanced inputs that's kind of my bar. It's also part of why I have an M300 and why I put my comment in this DAC's review. So the minimum current product from minidsp is the Flex at $500. Honestly I'm probably going to just buy one and sell the M300. But the question wasn't, "do I have options", the question was, why, when all the parts of this product are available in other products at or below the price point, then don't SMSL or whoever combine them to make such a product. It simply seems like a marketing miss if there isn't some deeper problem based on the available chips.
Are you against using the unbalanced outputs from a DAC to feed your subwoofer and the balanced outputs feeding your power amp? @cavedriver
Trell
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But then there will be no bass management, unless there are high/low pass filter available on the power amp and the subwoofer, or the subwoofer can implement the crossover.
cavedriver
Senior Member
not unless you can get an output the sums the bass from both channels. Subs only have one line level in and two subs are for reinforcement typically and not channels.
Not all subs. As I've said I'm using a DAC to feed my sub?
cavedriver
Senior Member
well, it still wouldn't give you any bass management with the main speakers, but it would derive sound from both channels. Of course such a setup would depend highly on the bass output behavior of your main speakers, a likely problematic issue. My Monoprice M-10 does have two inputs, but that's the main sub for the movie room, and the main speakers in the audio room right now are Linton's that have bass output down into the 40's so with the linearity of the Monoprice I would expect that experience to kind of suck.
It is a bit yes.
I didn't say it would give bass management
We are right back to the start again then, so you want a high performance DAC with DSP/bass management for under $300? Maybe you are asking too much?
Anyway, as I said earlier I hope you find what you are looking for, but you might be waiting a while.
Reynaldo
Active Member
I also bought the SMSL DO200MKII and I've been using it for a few days.
For me, a much better sound quality than the Gustard X16 even though both have practically equal numbers on SINAD.
Today I have four DACs here at home, one more should arrive.
I will decide which one will stay and I must sell the others.
For me, a much better sound quality than the Gustard X16 even though both have practically equal numbers on SINAD.
Today I have four DACs here at home, one more should arrive.
I will decide which one will stay and I must sell the others.
Do you have an e70 topping to compare? In my mind, this is the main competition for the DO200mk2. Trigger, 5/2.5V, still readable display from 3 meters, faster switching of sources from the unit, direct switching of filters from the remote control. Sound? I need to listen more. MQA is nice that it is, but still not decisive. DO200 natively goes for BT LDAC, Topping AptX. I suspect that if topping had updated the MK2 Smsl DO200MKII chip, it would have been eaten by Topping E70MKII.
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