SMSL DO200 MKII DAC Review

[Bleib]

By the way, I am of the Bruce Rozenblit school of audio. I don't expect that most passive components manufactured to reasonable standards of competence have any sonic bearing on sound quality. No special cables, no special volume controls, no "audio" caps, etc. etc., etc.

Yet you might want this to be true.. we all want the worth of the money spend

"And recently when I did an op amp switch on an amp - again adjusting relative volume by ear - I could easily hear the difference"

 

[Joffy1780]

but expectation bias is exactly and only what blind testing can eliminate. Blind testing doesn't change the electronic characteristics, only the human bias.

Why are you against trying it then, or even watching the video?
Level matching by ear will definitely play a part also.
News flash, you are not the first person to claim this!

 

[LtMandella]

Yet you might want this to be true.. we all want the worth of the money spend

"And recently when I did an op amp switch on an amp - again adjusting relative volume by ear - I could easily hear the difference"

in the case of the DACS, as I mentioned in my post, I paid about the same for all of them. Very close. All between $100 and $150.
And in the case of the op amp switch, read my OP again. I expected the more expensive op amps to sound at least as good and hopefully better, but I was disappointed. They did not sound as good. So are you saying that I suffered from "reverse expectation bias"? LOL

 

[Joffy1780]

in the case of the DACS, as I mentioned in my post, I paid about the same for all of them. Very close. All between $100 and $150.
And in the case of the op amp switch, read my OP again. I expected the more expensive op amps to sound at least as good and hopefully better, but I was disappointed. They did not sound as good. So are you saying that I suffered from "reverse expectation bias"? LOL

No, you are one of the few with those very rare 'golden ears' who doesn't need to do a properly controlled comparison.
I gotcha!

 

[Bleib]

in the case of the DACS, as I mentioned in my post, I paid about the same for all of them. Very close. All between $100 and $150.
And in the case of the op amp switch, read my OP again. I expected the more expensive op amps to sound at least as good and hopefully better, but I was disappointed. They did not sound as good. So are you saying that I suffered from "reverse expectation bias"? LOL

Well, no reason to continue this discussion forever and ever. You do you. But...it's still money spent, certainly it's worse to think that it's all for nothing? (I'll leave this discussion as it won't lead to any real conclusions anyway)

 

[Joffy1780]

In your posts you use the word expected a lot....but then claim to have had no expectations?

 

[LtMandella]

In your posts you use the word expected a lot....but then claim to have had no expectations?

meaningless word play now? you can have the last post, I am gone.

 

[Joffy1780]

meaningless word play now? you can have the last post, I am gone.

Cool, go watch the video

 

[Burns]

Went in to read about the sound quality compared to my e70 topping. I didn't learn anything. 13 pages of crap. Why on this topic? You don't like this company or this device?

 

[xeizo]

Went in to read about the sound quality compared to my e70 topping. I didn't learn anything. 13 pages of crap. Why on this topic? You don't like this company or this device?

Wrong forum to read about "sound quality", both this device and your E70 measures perfect therefore they sound exactly the same.

 

[Trell]

Went in to read about the sound quality compared to my e70 topping. I didn't learn anything. 13 pages of crap. Why on this topic? You don't like this company or this device?

Pot, meet kettle.

As for not learning anything in this thread you can start by reading the first post.

 

[Burns]

Wrong forum to read about "sound quality", both this device and your E70 measures perfect therefore they sound exactly the same.

Interesting, somehow there is more merit in the e70 thread, there is no shitstorm and there are 41 pages

 

[Joffy1780]

Went in to read about the sound quality compared to my e70 topping. I didn't learn anything. 13 pages of crap. Why on this topic? You don't like this company or this device?

To be honest a lot of the comments on reviews now tend to be about how the device doesn't have the right inputs or PEQ or subwoofer outputs. Not a lot of discussion on the actual performance of the device being reviewed.
It is frustrating, I agree.

 

[xeizo]

To be honest a lot of the comments on reviews now tend to be about how the device doesn't have the right inputs or PEQ or subwoofer outputs. Not a lot of discussion on the actual performance of the device being reviewed.
It is frustrating, I agree.

Frustrating that all tested devices are so good that SQ do not need any comments? It should be considered great the lemons are gone. Features on the other hand vary.

 

[Joffy1780]

Frustrating that all tested devices are so good that SQ do not need any comments? It should be considered great the lemons are gone. Features on the other hand vary.

No, frustrated that the devices tested (and usually the companies that make them) are criticised even though they do exactly what they are designed to do, fantastically well.
I don't understand why people criticise a fantastic DAC because they need a subwoofer output. It's akin to criticising a Ferrari because you need somewhere to put your toolbox. Look at reviews of trucks would be my response to that.

 

[cavedriver]

No, frustrated that the devices tested (and usually the companies that make them) are criticised even though they do exactly what they are designed to do, fantastically well.
I don't understand why people criticise a fantastic DAC because they need a subwoofer output. It's akin to criticising a Ferrari because you need somewhere to put your toolbox. Look at reviews of trucks would be my response to that.

Although I wasn't specifically quoted I feel a little attacked here since I was the first (only?) person in this thread to mention the lack of a subwoofer output. I should point out that my post was not about how this specific DAC is flawed for not having a subwoofer output, but actually that NONE of SMSL's (or really anyone's) DACs have a subwoofer output. So this isn't a flavor of the month issue- it's an across the board miss that I don't understand why the manufacturers are doing. I just happened to pick this thread since it had recently been bumped.

 

[Joffy1780]

Although I wasn't specifically quoted I feel a little attacked here since I was the first (only?) person in this thread to mention the lack of a subwoofer output. I should point out that my post was not about how this specific DAC is flawed for not having a subwoofer output, but actually that NONE of SMSL's (or really anyone's) DACs have a subwoofer output. So this isn't a flavor of the month issue- it's an across the board miss that I don't understand why the manufacturers are doing. I just happened to pick this thread since it had recently been bumped.

Exactly my point really, and I can assure you I wasn't 'attacking' you specifically. As you've said, DACs don't have subwoofer outputs, so just picking the first review of a DAC you come across and complaining it is not a pre-amp is strange IMHO. It's not the end of the world, obviously, just a bit frustrating.
As I say, it is not aimed at you specifically, every recent review of a Topping or SMSL DAC seems to have the same comments.

 

[Joffy1780]

Also, any DAC with both balanced and unbalanced outputs that can output that outputs to both simultaneously (like this one) can be used to connect a subwoofer and power amp, I use my DO100 this way, it just doesn't have bass management.

 

[cavedriver]

Exactly my point really, and I can assure you I wasn't 'attacking' you specifically. As you've said, DACs don't have subwoofer outputs, so just picking the first review of a DAC you come across and complaining it is not a pre-amp is strange IMHO. It's not the end of the world, obviously, just a bit frustrating.
As I say, it is not aimed at you specifically, every recent review of a Topping or SMSL DAC seems to have the same comments.

Well, it sounds like your only criticism is that I didn't put the comment on every review thread of every SMSL and Topping DAC. Or do you think it's invalid to criticize SMSL and Topping for not making any DACs that include a subwoofer output, despite making a number of amps that include subwoofer outputs? According to the Ferrari/truck analogy, you would seem to think it invalid, but then I wonder, is any criticism of a manufacturer's choice of product manufacture valid?

btw, I think I understand what you intend to say by referrring to "preamps", although I think what you mean to say is DSP's, since technically almost all of SMSL's and Toppings' DACs include both line level outputs and volume controls. But again, neither company (nor any other) appear to make a free-standing DAC/DSP except miniDSP that allows for a subwoofer output even though they sell multiple DAC/AMP's at similarly low price points that somehow are justified in including subwoofer outputs on (and even limited sound processing controls in some cases). So if SMSL made a "truck", sure, I would buy a truck, but nobody does, although they are putting plenty of Ferrari-level features in their $200 DAC/AMPs.

Now maybe it would be constructive if someone could do a tear down on this (or any other) recent DAC and a similar amp, and show why the architecture of a small class D amplifier is easier to include a SW output on, that would be getting us somewhere. Then I could go write a thread "complaining" about the architecture of AKM's amplifier chips or some such thing.

 

[Joffy1780]

Well, it sounds like your only criticism is that I didn't put the comment on every review thread of every SMSL and Topping DAC. Or do you think it's invalid to criticize SMSL and Topping for not making any DACs that include a subwoofer output, despite making a number of amps that include subwoofer outputs? According to the Ferrari/truck analogy, you would seem to think it invalid, but then I wonder, is any criticism of a manufacturer's choice of product manufacture valid?

btw, I think I understand what you intend to say by referrring to "preamps", although I think what you mean to say is DSP's, since technically almost all of SMSL's and Toppings' DACs include both line level outputs and volume controls. But again, neither company (nor any other) appear to make a free-standing DAC/DSP except miniDSP that allows for a subwoofer output even though they sell multiple DAC/AMP's at similarly low price points that somehow are justified in including subwoofer outputs on (and even limited sound processing controls in some cases). So if SMSL made a "truck", sure, I would buy a truck, but nobody does, although they are putting plenty of Ferrari-level features in their $200 DAC/AMPs.

Now maybe it would be constructive if someone could do a tear down on this (or any other) recent DAC and a similar amp, and show why the architecture of a small class D amplifier is easier to include a SW output on, that would be getting us somewhere. Then I could go write a thread "complaining" about the architecture of AKM's amplifier chips or some such thing.

Maybe SMSL want to focus on making great DACs though, they're clearly very good at it. Plus this particular DAC would allow you to connect a subwoofer if you wished.
Other companies make DSPs. Why do so many feel that SMSL or Topping must make a DSP? Can't we just be satisfied that they make fantastic DACs? There are companies making DACs with nowhere near this level of performance or features for 10 and 20 (or more) times the cost.
I just think we should be pleased they are making brilliant, affordable DACs. But I get you and a lot of others have a different view.
When I was looking for a new DAC recently I decided to buy a DSP because I wanted those features. I wasn't disappointed because SMSL didn't make one, I just bought one from a company that did.
I really don't want to start an argument about this (again) and I'm sorry if it seemed I was attacking you personally, I had not even read your initial post regarding subwoofer outputs (and still haven't), just I had read a lot of posts on reviews recently criticising SMSL and Topping DACs in particular and I was simply replying to the comment by Burns (post #249) and you decided I was attacking you.
Hope you find what you need at the end of the day.