SMSL DL400

[Magnifico]

My DL400 is said to come tomorrow.
It will replace SMSL SU-9 + Topping A30 pro.
I don´t think this will be a great upgrade even if being any at all, but I really always wanted a one in all device.
But those always were out of bounce. Price wise AND or power wise. Only the most expensive ones could be considered to power my DT1990s.
Now switching to (actually it came today and already enjoying it) Hifiman Ananda Nano.

 

[Rastofer]

Welcome to the select club of DL400 users!!

Congratulations on your purchase, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
So far, 0 problems and 100% satisfaction!!

Regards!!

 

[Magnifico]

It´s here and a direct warning to people considering the 300s with the weaker HPA.
I need to set the gain to high in order to get loud output. On low it is limited.
At maximum just loud.

Crying loud is at full volume in Windows and DL400 at -7.5dB to -5dB.
+2dB is absolute max!

That is with an Ananda Nano (14 Ohm!!!!!).
Seeing it has 6W into 16ohm.....unbelievable what those planars things can digest.
On low gain you won´t ge able to EQ the HP. With EQ APO it was only decently loud and I feel like I have to go high gain.

I tried it yesterday with a Fiio BTR5. This has 90mw @16ohm and 80mw @32 ohm.
Will try the balanced port on this once I get the cable and the 4.4 to 2.5 adapter.
Of course on max volume...the volume was surprisingly high but it was instandly clear the huge lack of driver control. There is just not enough power. Not that I had this assumed.
It realy helped to exchange volume for sound quality. But still the Nano sounded far from what it could do.

I just tried with the DT1990 pro.
250ohm this one.. And it´s the same. The DL400 gets the job done. But damn what is this?
Topping A30 pro > 6W at 16ohm
SMSL DL400 > 6W at 16ohm
Those are NOT the same numbers
With Topping at maximum with medium gain I can say my hearing goodbye.
The high gain is untouchabel for me

I´m absolutely lucky I did not trust SMSL on this one and went with the big HPA.
I absolutely would have to return the 300s models.

Sure...the DT1990s are known hard to drive but I´m how much power those 14ohm Hifiman can or want to digest.
I thought I would not have needed the high gain with the DL400 with a 14ohm can.
I see that Hifiman has "only" 94dB sensitivity vs. the 102dB of the Beyerdynamic.
The sensitivity seems to be a "problem" of Hifiman. Audeze planars do have 100dB.

The Ananda Nanos are said to be so easily driven....my personal experience is a different story.
I wan´t to let you know I like my loud sessions from time to time.
Well all I can say....I don´t think I could become happy with the 300s models.
Your mileage may vary

The nice device feet look better on picture than in reality but they are endlessly better than those glue dots under many of the other devices.
500€ for gods sake....no more money left for quality matching device feet hifi enthusiasts are keen on?



Three photos not posted before.
1. Contents of SMSL DL400
2. Photo of the VERY NICE carton/packaging
3. Comparison of new remote (DL400 vs SU-9) old.


/EDIT: A word on this funny card they include...this "pass". I have a Google Pixel 9 pro XL.
I´m very sure...if my phone can´t read the printed QR code on this one....nothing can.
I absolultey HATE such things. Such things tear down the whole impression of worthy products.
Mindless useless stuff included is just unneccesarily cheap. It realy makes my blood pressure rise.

 

[JIW]

It´s here and a direct warning to people considering the 300s with the weaker HPA.
I need to set the gain to high in order to get loud output. On low it is limited.
At maximum just loud.

Crying loud is at full volume in Windows and DL400 at -7.5dB to -5dB.
+2dB is absolute max!

That is with an Ananda Nano (14 Ohm!!!!!).
Seeing it has 6W into 16ohm.....unbelievable what those planars things can digest.
On low gain you won´t ge able to EQ the HP. With EQ APO it was only decently loud and I feel like I have to go high gain.

I tried it yesterday with a Fiio BTR5. This has 90mw @16ohm and 80mw @32 ohm.
Will try the balanced port on this once I get the cable and the 4.4 to 2.5 adapter.
Of course on max volume...the volume was surprisingly high but it was instandly clear the huge lack of driver control. There is just not enough power. Not that I had this assumed.
It realy helped to exchange volume for sound quality. But still the Nano sounded far from what it could do.

I just tried with the DT1990 pro.
250ohm this one.. And it´s the same. The DL400 gets the job done. But damn what is this?
Topping A30 pro > 6W at 16ohm
SMSL DL400 > 6W at 16ohm
Those are NOT the same numbers
With Topping at maximum with medium gain I can say my hearing goodbye.
The high gain is untouchabel for me

I´m absolutely lucky I did not trust SMSL on this one and went with the big HPA.
I absolutely would have to return the 300s models.

Sure...the DT1990s are known hard to drive but I´m how much power those 14ohm Hifiman can or want to digest.
I thought I would not have needed the high gain with the DL400 with a 14ohm can.
I see that Hifiman has "only" 94dB sensitivity vs. the 102dB of the Beyerdynamic.
The sensitivity seems to be a "problem" of Hifiman. Audeze planars do have 100dB.

The Ananda Nanos are said to be so easily driven....my personal experience is a different story.
I wan´t to let you know I like my loud sessions from time to time.
Well all I can say....I don´t think I could become happy with the 300s models.
Your mileage may vary

The nice device feet look better on picture than in reality but they are endlessly better than those glue dots under many of the other devices.
500€ for gods sake....no more money left for quality matching device feet hifi enthusiasts are keen on?



Three photos not posted before.
1. Contents of SMSL DL400
2. Photo of the VERY NICE carton/packaging
3. Comparison of new remote (DL400 vs SU-9) old.


/EDIT: A word on this funny card they include...this "pass". I have a Google Pixel 9 pro XL.
I´m very sure...if my phone can´t read the printed QR code on this one....nothing can.
I absolultey HATE such things. Such things tear down the whole impression of worthy products.
Mindless useless stuff included is just unneccesarily cheap. It realy makes my blood pressure rise.

The DL400 is rated at 700 mW at 300 Ohm on the balanced output. That is a maximum output voltage of 10*log10(700/1000*300) = 23.22 dBV. High gain is 15.5 dB. Thus, maximum output in low gain is around 23.22 - 15.5 = 7.78 dBV. Since the unbalanced line out's output is 2.5 V or 8 dBV, this is likely the output in low gain for the single ended headphone output with the balanced being 6 dB higher, i.e. 14 dBV. Maximum power into 16 Ohm in low gain is thus 10^(14/10)/16 = 1.57 W. The below is from the DL400 product page and contrary to the title for a 16 Ohm load. There is not even a hint of output restriction at 1.5 W nor at 10^(14/10)/14^2*16 = 2.05 W which is where it would be at 14 Ohm.

Amir measured the Ananda Nano as having a sensitivity of 94-20*log10(.149) = 110.54 dB at 1 V or 0 dBV. At full volume in low gain, the Ananda Nano would be extremely loud with maximum peak SPL of 110.54 + 14 + 3 = 127.54 dB SPL.

EDIT: Based on Amir's review of the Loxjie D40 Pro, the load on the figure seems correct. The specification of 3 W at 32 Ohm is wrong.

The max power in low gain at 14 Ohm corresponds to 10^(14/10)/14^2*32 = 4.1 W in the figure based on the current. This is still below clipping.

 

[Roland68]

I just tried with the DT1990 pro.
250ohm this one.. And it´s the same. The DL400 gets the job done. But damn what is this?
Topping A30 pro > 6W at 16ohm
SMSL DL400 > 6W at 16ohm
Those are NOT the same numbers
With Topping at maximum with medium gain I can say my hearing goodbye.
The high gain is untouchabel for me

I´m absolutely lucky I did not trust SMSL on this one and went with the big HPA.
I absolutely would have to return the 300s models.

Which port on the DL400 did you connect the DT1990 to?

 

[JIW]

Which port on the DL400 did you connect the DT1990 to?

Amir measured its sensitivity at 94-20*log10(.306) = 104.29 dB SPL at 0 dBV. Even the single ended output in low gain with 8 dBV output would produce max SPL peaks of 115.3 dB SPL which is very loud. In medium gain, the maximum output of the A30 Pro is the level of the input signal. For balanced connection from the DL400, this is around 14 dBV.

 

[Roland68]

Amir measured its sensitivity at 94-20*log10(.306) = 104.29 dB SPL at 0 dBV. Even the single ended output in low gain with 8 dBV output would produce max SPL peaks of 115.3 dB SPL which is very loud. In medium gain, the maximum output of the A30 Pro is the level of the input signal. For balanced connection from the DL400, this is around 14 dBV.

Unfortunately, this answers my question to @Magnifico 0%.

 

[JIW]

Unfortunately, that doesn't answer my question to @Magnifico at 0%.

It addresses the assertion of low volume being possible using either headphone output.

 

[Roland68]

It addresses the assertion of low volume being possible using either headphone output.

And it still has nothing to do with my question and my concern.
I don't even know what you're referring to.

@Magnifico
If you tell me which output of the DL400 you're using to operate the DT1990, I might be able to answer a few questions and also tell you a few internal details about the DL400 and the built-in headphone amplifier.

 

[Magnifico]

DT1990pro can only be connected to one port.
SE! Since without mod there is no balanced connection available.
IF JIW had read closer what I wrote he would not have to calculate so much.
Maybe it helps his math that there is a -4.5dB penalty on the signal because of the EQ.
Even though Topping and SMSL are said to have the same output....the Topping destroys the SMSL in power. Either way!
With both headphones the Topping is much much louder.

The SMSL has (easily) enough power for the Hifiman and the the Beyerdynamic but far far less headroom than the topping.

 

[Roland68]

DT1990pro can only be connected to one port.
SE! Since without mod there is no balanced connection available.
IF JIW had read closer what I wrote he would not have to calculate so much.
Maybe it helps his math that there is a -4.5dB penalty on the signal because of the EQ.
Even though Topping and SMSL are said to have the same output....the Topping destroys the SMSL in power. Either way!
With both headphones the Topping is much much louder.

The SMSL has (easily) enough power for the Hifiman and the the Beyerdynamic but far far less headroom than the topping.

Please don't be mad at me, but you compare an SE power of the DL400 with around 1.1 watts at 32 ohms with an SE power of the A30 Pro of measured 5.5 watts at 32 ohms and are surprised that the A30 Pro has more power?
That is a power difference with a factor of 5!

At 300 ohms that is around 119mW (DL400) to 730mW (A30 Pro), both measured power in tests by Amir. That should be a decent difference on the DT1990.
That is only the maximum possible power, regardless of the gain factor.

The DL400 has a max power of around 4.4 watts at 32 ohms and around 554mW at 300 ohms when balanced. The values measured by Amir for the built-in headphone amplifier can be found for balanced in the almost identical Loxjie D40 Pro and the Sabaj A20h, and for SE in the Sabaj A10h. The deviations should be minimal.

Similar performance can also be found for SE in the old L30 and balanced in the old A90. The same chip configuration (2 x or 4 x TPA6120a), but the measured values are a little better, but probably inaudible. The rest is probably pure coincidence .

The other SMSL DACs, e.g. DO300EX, only have one TPA6120a installed and that is in no way comparable. It's really a shame that they saved on a TPA6120a2 and wasted so much potential.

 

[JIW]

DT1990pro can only be connected to one port.
SE! Since without mod there is no balanced connection available.
IF JIW had read closer what I wrote he would not have to calculate so much.
Maybe it helps his math that there is a -4.5dB penalty on the signal because of the EQ.
Even though Topping and SMSL are said to have the same output....the Topping destroys the SMSL in power. Either way!
With both headphones the Topping is much much louder.

The SMSL has (easily) enough power for the Hifiman and the the Beyerdynamic but far far less headroom than the topping.

I did calculate it for the single ended output and clearly state it. The Topping has more gain at 14 dB compared to the DL400 at 9.5 dB and a 6 dB higher signal at its input using balanced connection. That does not equate to higher headroom, though, which only pertains to power which is restricted by voltage and current output capabilities.

With the A30Pro set to full volume in medium gain and using the same volume setting on the DL400, what is the difference in level between using the balanced output of the DL400 in low gain and the A30Pro with balanced connection? Alternatively, what is the difference in level using RCA connection between the DL400 and A30Pro and using the single ended headphone output in low gain? If the DL400 functions properly, there should only be a very small difference in level.

 

[Roland68]

I did calculate it for the single ended output and clearly state it. The Topping has more gain at 14 dB compared to the DL400 at 9.5 dB and a 6 dB higher signal at its input using balanced connection. That does not equate to higher headroom, though, which only pertains to power which is restricted by voltage and current output capabilities.

With the A30Pro set to full volume in medium gain and using the same volume setting on the DL400, what is the difference in level between using the balanced output of the DL400 in low gain and the A30Pro with balanced connection? Alternatively, what is the difference in level using RCA connection between the DL400 and A30Pro and using the single ended headphone output in low gain? If the DL400 functions properly, there should only be a very small difference in level.

You are also wrong in many areas.
The A30 Pro is an SE amplifier and not a balanced one. The 4-pin XLR socket is installed for better contact, but it is still only an SE connection. Of course, any balanced headphone can be operated with it without any problems.

As already written in a previous post, the DL400 only has 1/5 of the power of the A30 Pro at the SE output, and even less at 300 ohms.
When balanced, the DL400 has about 4/5 of the power of the A30 Pro. These are maximum electrical powers and have nothing to do with amplification factors, but of course these powers are only achieved at high gain.

The fact that the A30 Pro is only an SE amplifier, regardless of the sockets installed, has already been discussed often enough in the A30 Pro thread and is also on the topping page.

 

[JIW]

You are also wrong in many areas.
The A30 Pro is an SE amplifier and not a balanced one. The 4-pin XLR socket is installed for better contact, but it is still only an SE connection. Of course, any balanced headphone can be operated with it without any problems.

As already written in a previous post, the DL400 only has 1/5 of the power of the A30 Pro at the SE output, and even less at 300 ohms.
When balanced, the DL400 has about 4/5 of the power of the A30 Pro. These are maximum electrical powers and have nothing to do with amplification factors, but of course these powers are only achieved at high gain.

The fact that the A30 Pro is only an SE amplifier, regardless of the sockets installed, has already been discussed often enough in the A30 Pro thread and is also on the topping page.
View attachment 428307

Where have I claimed that it was balanced? I am aware of it being single ended only. I was referring to the connection between the DL400 and A30Pro as well as the headphone output of the DL400.

I don't think we are trying to say the same thing here anyways. I am trying to determine if the output of the DL400's headphone output is unusually low not whether its power is comparable to the A30Pro. Hence, my use of low gain. For reference, in the first post, it was claimed

I need to set the gain to high in order to get loud output. On low it is limited.

 

[Roland68]

Where have I claimed that it was balanced? I am aware of it being single ended only. I was referring to the connection between the DL400 and A30Pro as well as the headphone output of the DL400.

I don't think we are trying to say the same thing here anyways. I am trying to determine if the output of the DL400's headphone output is unusually low not whether its power is comparable to the A30Pro. Hence, my use of low gain. For reference, in the first post, it was claimed

Since the DT 1990 was used on the SE output in both devices, it should be clear that the DL400 is significantly quieter with only 1/5 of the power, right?

 

[Magnifico]

WHAT???? I have totally missed that Topping is on full power and SMSL is on limited SE.
I KNOW Topping has full power on all ports but I totally forgot that SMSL has REAL balanced system.
Geeez....I´m am idiot! That´s for shure.

Thanks for pointing that out!
So my opinion is based on totally wrong facts.
My finding are correct but the statements are wrong.

A balanced cable for the Hifiman is on it´s way.

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005008126369505.html

I don´t really like the color, but it´s by far the highest quality cable I found for reasonable price.


What do you guys think?
Should I "reedit" my initial posting on this?
So no wrong information could be picked up, or shall they read on and find the fault/correction in postings after that?

@Roland: why should I be mad or offended if you are the one to find my fault?
The truth is what I´m always for. My pride is a little bit bruised

 

[Magnifico]

Since the DT 1990 was used on the SE output in both devices, it should be clear that the DL400 is significantly quieter with only 1/5 of the power, right?

Damn right!

 

[Roland68]

WHAT???? I have totally missed that Topping is on full power and SMSL is on limited SE.
I KNOW Topping has full power on all ports but I totally forgot that SMSL has REAL balanced system.
Geeez....I´m am idiot! That´s for shure.

Thanks for pointing that out!
So my opinion is based on totally wrong facts.
My finding are correct but the statements are wrong.

A balanced cable for the Hifiman is on it´s way.

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005008126369505.html

I don´t really like the color, but it´s by far the highest quality cable I found for reasonable price.


What do you guys think?
Should I "reedit" my initial posting on this?
So no wrong information could be picked up, or shall they read on and find the fault/correction in postings after that?

@Roland: why should I be mad or offended if you are the one to find my fault?
The truth is what I´m always for. My pride is a little bit bruised

I sometimes have to check myself what is really symmetrical and what only has a pseudo-symmetrical connection. It can be confusing.

You also have to be careful with headphone cables these days, because there are cables with symmetrical connectors (XLR, 4.4 or 2.5) that are actually SE wired. If someone uses these cables for a real balanced headphone amplifier, it can bang or smoke, including a defect in the amplifier.
There is something like that for the DT1990.

The usual procedure here in the forum, if you want to correct something like this, is to cross out the text and write the correction underneath, then it remains clear.

 

[JIW]

Since the DT 1990 was used on the SE output in both devices, it should be clear that the DL400 is significantly quieter with only 1/5 of the power, right?

Yes, but it should be able to get quite loud in low gain on the DL400. The difference in power is around 7 dB so definitely significant. My point was also that the different gain structure and balanced connection between DL400 and A30Pro if used favor the sensation of the Topping having more power compared to the DL400's balanced output due to higher volume reserves at maximum power.

 

[JIW]

WHAT???? I have totally missed that Topping is on full power and SMSL is on limited SE.
I KNOW Topping has full power on all ports but I totally forgot that SMSL has REAL balanced system.
Geeez....I´m am idiot! That´s for shure.

Thanks for pointing that out!
So my opinion is based on totally wrong facts.
My finding are correct but the statements are wrong.

A balanced cable for the Hifiman is on it´s way.

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005008126369505.html

I don´t really like the color, but it´s by far the highest quality cable I found for reasonable price.


What do you guys think?
Should I "reedit" my initial posting on this?
So no wrong information could be picked up, or shall they read on and find the fault/correction in postings after that?

@Roland: why should I be mad or offended if you are the one to find my fault?
The truth is what I´m always for. My pride is a little bit bruised

Do you have some RCA cables so you can test whether the DL400's headphone output is at the correct level as I described above?

Alternatively, what is the difference in level using RCA connection between the DL400 and A30Pro and using the single ended headphone output in low gain? If the DL400 functions properly, there should only be a very small difference in level.

Even using the single ended output in low gain, the Ananda Nano would still be extremely loud with maximum peak SPL of 110.54 + 8 + 3 = 121.54 dB SPL.