SMSL DL400

[Rastofer]

Hello!!
I'm new to the forum, although I've been reading it for a while now. You do a spectacular job, keep it up, it's very instructive!!
I'm interested in the new SMSL DL400, I have a DO100PRO and a SU-1 and the improvement is interesting... sound color filters, headphone output and a very attractive huge display.
However, I have a doubt, on the SMSL page there is an image where you can see the title and the author of the song, and it seems that it only applies when the input is via Bluetooth. Can someone please confirm this? There are no reviews on YouTube yet.

Thank you very much!!

 

[staticV3]

Hi @Rastofer! Welcome to ASR.

However, I have a doubt, on the SMSL page there is an image where you can see the title and the author of the song, and it seems that it only applies when the input is via Bluetooth. Can someone please confirm this?

Correct.

Bluetooth is the only protocol on the DL400 that can transmit cover art, song title, and artist name alongside the audio.

If you use any other input, then these won't (can't) be displayed.

 

[Rastofer]

Thank you very much!!

It's a pity that it can only be used with Bluetooth.
Let's hope that reviews or opinions about this DAC start appearing soon, it seems that not a single one has been sold yet

 

[Roland68]

Hello!!
I'm new to the forum, although I've been reading it for a while now. You do a spectacular job, keep it up, it's very instructive!!
I'm interested in the new SMSL DL400, I have a DO100PRO and a SU-1 and the improvement is interesting... sound color filters, headphone output and a very attractive huge display.
However, I have a doubt, on the SMSL page there is an image where you can see the title and the author of the song, and it seems that it only applies when the input is via Bluetooth. Can someone please confirm this? There are no reviews on YouTube yet.

Thank you very much!!

The DL400 is just another reincarnation of the new SMSL/Loxjie DACs based on the ES9039MSPRO.
Basically just variations of housing/displays and for different sales channels.

On ASR you can find the test results of Loxjie D40 Pro, SMSL VMV D1se2 and SMSL DO300, all of which are based on the same ES9039MSPRO development from SMSL. Although the housing, board size/layout and power supplies are different for all three DACs, the measurement results could hardly be more similar. This will not change significantly with the other ES9039MSPRO DACs from this manufacturer.

The best deal currently is probably the recently released LOXJIE D60 for $413.99 at HiFi-Express.
Identical or better than the DL400. The DL400, for example, lacks the better quality 4-pin XLR connection for HP.

Otherwise there is:
- LOXJIE D40 PRO
- DO400

 

[Rastofer]

Hello!!
Thanks for the advice Roland68, I'll take a look at the measurements and reviews of the Loxjie D40 Pro, SMSL VMV D1se2 and SMSL DO300.
Of the other models you mention, the aesthetics of the DL400 still seem more appropriate to me (I'm not going to take advantage of the XLR headphone connector).

I bought my other DACs from Amazon, although they were supplied by Aoshida and Fanmusic, they arrived without any problems. I've never bought from Hifi-express.com and now it's discounted by $50, according to the page they ship to Spain for free, I don't know if I should wait for it to appear on Amazon...

 

[Rastofer]

I finally ordered one from hifiexpress.
I hope everything is going well, there is still no review anywhere!!

 

[ejr]

What is your opinion of shopping on Hi-fi Express? As of this writing the price on the D60 is cheaper than on Amazon (though I think that's a promotion). Do they also have free shipping? How does their return policy compare?

 

[Roland68]

What is your opinion of shopping on Hi-fi Express? As of this writing the price on the D60 is cheaper than on Amazon (though I think that's a promotion). Do they also have free shipping? How does their return policy compare?

It is a manufacturer's shop and has been reliable so far. Paypal gives you some protection as a buyer. Shipping is free, but if you return something you would have to cover the full cost.
I have had no problems with HiFi-Express so far and all devices arrived quickly, but I generally recommend only ordering devices that you want to keep anyway.

 

[Rastofer]

What is your opinion of shopping on Hi-fi Express? As of this writing the price on the D60 is cheaper than on Amazon (though I think that's a promotion). Do they also have free shipping? How does their return policy compare?

I had never bought from hifiexpress before, but shipping is free.
I haven't read their return policy, my intention is to keep the DAC unless it's broken.
Paid via PayPal by the way.

 

[ejr]

Well, I certainly wasn't expecting this:

Just for the hell of it, I asked Amazon if they would match the Hi-fi Express price for the D60. That way, I could use my credit card instead of PayPal and not have to worry if it had to be returned.

Amazon said it checked into it for me and determined that Hi-fi Express -- which says it ships from Amazon's warehouse -- is selling used items (which accounts for the difference in price).

I find that a bit hard to believe. The D60 is such a new item. Would there really be returns already?

 

[Roland68]

Well, I certainly wasn't expecting this:

Just for the hell of it, I asked Amazon if they would match the Hi-fi Express price for the D60. That way, I could use my credit card instead of PayPal and not have to worry if it had to be returned.

Amazon said it checked into it for me and determined that Hi-fi Express -- which says it ships from Amazon's warehouse -- is selling used items (which accounts for the difference in price).

I find that a bit hard to believe. The D60 is such a new item. Would there really be returns already?

That's total nonsense, the D60 is currently only shipped from China by HiFi-Espress, but that's not a problem.
So far, all my HiFi-Express packages have come from China, 1 or 2 times from Europe, but never from Amazon.
At HiFi-Espress you pay a direct price, at Amazon the dealer passes on Amazon's high fees (double-digit percentage range) for handling, platform, storage and shipping to the customer.
This is where the big price difference comes from. If you want the additional Amazon service, you now know what it costs.

For returns, HiFi-Espress has a separate section on its website for used devices, just as these are separately declared on Amazon.

 

[ejr]

Thanks for all the info. I did end up ordering one from Hi-fi Express. I'll see how it goes (and sounds).

 

[Rastofer]

Here it is!

The shipping from Hifi-express was very fast, I think, I ordered it on the 6th and it was at my house on the 15th, with very careful packaging.

I haven't had time to check all the functions and inputs, but at least it arrived without any damage and works perfectly with USB (with the DO100 pro Windows 11 drivers).
When I try it a bit I'll post some more impressions.

Thanks to everyone!!

 

[Roland68]

Here it is!

View attachment 407046

The shipping from Hifi-express was very fast, I think, I ordered it on the 6th and it was at my house on the 15th, with very careful packaging.

I haven't had time to check all the functions and inputs, but at least it arrived without any damage and works perfectly with USB (with the DO100 pro Windows 11 drivers).
When I try it a bit I'll post some more impressions.

Thanks to everyone!!

Congratulations on your new favorite and have fun with it.

 

[ejr]

I tried to create a new thread under DACs for this, but it wouldn't let me do so. Anyway, here are my first impressions of the Loxjie D60, which arrived yesterday.

TWO STEPS FORWARD, ONE STEP BACK​

First, the good news ...

What I immediately noticed when I plugged in the D60 and played a track on Amazon Music Unlimited was the obvious improvement over the same track being played back on my old DAC (the original Loxjie D40 with the latest firmware update). To me, it sounded like the D60 increased the ambiance and added SLIGHTLY more depth and width. I was able to better pick out individual instruments in the mix.

What it did not do is make tinny or hard-to-hear movie dialog sound any clearer or compensate for badly mixed or badly recorded music as you might try to do with eq. (Though Amazon Prime Video's "Audio Boost" seems to be getting better these days.) As for the filters and sound colors ... well, as always, I suppose some people will say that they can't hear differences between them. I actually was able distinguish some very subtle differences. I just didn't find any of them useful for fixing subpar audio.


Now, the bad ...

I really hate the new UI and display. My D40 has a much smaller screen, but it is easier to read. I have the D60 and my powered speakers on top of my dresser, next to my Roku Ultra, under a wall-mounted TV. With the D40, I could see everything in nice, bright, white letters and control just about every function with the Loxjie remote. The D40 also has a small green LED that illuminates when the device is on and a red LED when it's off. The D60 has only the red LED for when it is off if you have set the display to dim after changing settings. The Normal mode has far too much information on it to be visible from a comfortable TV viewing distance. They are too small for me to see on many of the D60 screens unless I walk right up to them and put on my reading glasses. The Simple mode is hard to read because all the text is in these big blocky characters reminiscent of the cheapest pocket calculators from the early 1970s -- which might look cool to some people, but are actually hard to distinguish because the characters and numerals look so much alike. Furthermore, all but the lowest brightness levels seem to cause a distracting amount of background light to spill through the screen when viewed in a dark room.

I'm not saying that some won't like this style. I'm just saying that, if Loxjie wanted to make a bold aesthetic choice (or trick users into thinking they were using a Topping product) they should have at least included an alternative look for those that don't like it (or who have visual impairments). There should be at least one font that was picked for its clarity and visibility. (I used to see this kind of thinking a lot in my sideline of software development, when a developer would not allow for a reasonable amount of flexibility with the user interface. People have different personal preferences and ways of working. If you force them to use only one UI, you are just limiting your potential customer base. Not a good approach to take in a crowded DAC market, IMHO.)


Finally, I would like to ask for suggestions on how to fix a nagging problem that none of my Loxjie DACs (the D30, D40, and D60) were able to address ...

There are a few recent albums that have distortion on nearly every track when streaming through Amazon Music Unlimited (though the amount of the distortion differs from track-to-track). For example Robyn Adele Anderson "Just Play the Right Notes" and "Expensive Background Music". To me it sounds like the cheapest portable transistor radio from the 1960s playing the same track simultaneously with the hq digital feed. Both my systems play most other songs and albums without distortion. I am assuming that either the issue exists in the recordings themselves or somewhere else in my systems, but don't know what to change. (Different DAC filters and sound colors in the DACs don't help. It seems like increasing the DPLL value does to some extent -- but I am NOT going to get into another argument about that becasue so many people are convinced that it's impossible and no one has suggested an alternative.) Any ideas? Thanks.

The signal paths on my systems are as follows:

• LAN cable to Roku Ultra - Roku Ultra to TV via HDMI - TV to D60 via optical cable (at 480) - output to 3.1 Genelec powered speakers
• Wi-fi signal to iPad mini - iPad mini to D40 via USB (at 192) - output to 2 Genelec powered speakers

All suggestions are welcome. Thank you.

 

[Roland68]

Finally, I would like to ask for suggestions on how to fix a nagging problem that none of my Loxjie DACs (the D30, D40, and D60) were able to address ...

There are a few recent albums that have distortion on nearly every track when streaming through Amazon Music Unlimited (though the amount of the distortion differs from track-to-track). For example Robyn Adele Anderson "Just Play the Right Notes" and "Expensive Background Music". To me it sounds like the cheapest portable transistor radio from the 1960s playing the same track simultaneously with the hq digital feed. Both my systems play most other songs and albums without distortion. I am assuming that either the issue exists in the recordings themselves or somewhere else in my systems, but don't know what to change. (Different DAC filters and sound colors in the DACs don't help. It seems like increasing the DPLL value does to some extent -- but I am NOT going to get into another argument about that becasue so many people are convinced that it's impossible and no one has suggested an alternative.) Any ideas? Thanks.

The signal paths on my systems are as follows:

• LAN cable to Roku Ultra - Roku Ultra to TV via HDMI - TV to D60 via optical cable (at 480) - output to 3.1 Genelec powered speakers
• Wi-fi signal to iPad mini - iPad mini to D40 via USB (at 192) - output to 2 Genelec powered speakers

All suggestions are welcome. Thank you.

Is the DAC running in so-called DAC mode? so with 100% volume?
Does the problem still exist if you reduce the volume on the DAC and increase the volume on the speakers?

 

[ejr]

Thanks for your suggestions.

- The D60 has a fixed volume or preamp mode, so it's running in that.
- The D40 does not, so it's running with the volume at 100% and I am controlling the volume with the preamp.
- The powered speakers for both systems run best with the volume at 50%, so I leave them at that.

Experiments with changing the volume on all components (DACs, speakers, and preamp on the second system) produced no discernable difference to the amount or the character of the distortion. I also tried two headphones (Sony MDR-7506 and Audio-Technica ATH-M40x) with the same result.

Finally, I tried adjusting the Audio Quality for Amazon Music, checking "HD/Ultra HD" and the "Adjust Audio Quality" on or off. Again, there was no difference. I hear the same distortion every time. Unless we can identify some other cause with Loxjie DACs that only affects certain content, I think we have to conclude that the distortion is actually on the recordings. Likewise, with the tinny dialog on movies and TV series. (Amazon is the worst. But they are offering an dialog boost option on some titles. Initially, I was not impressed with it, but lately it seems to have improved.) Perhaps it has something to do with the compression used on streaming content.

 

[Roland68]

Thanks for your suggestions.

- The D60 has a fixed volume or preamp mode, so it's running in that.
- The D40 does not, so it's running with the volume at 100% and I am controlling the volume with the preamp.
- The powered speakers for both systems run best with the volume at 50%, so I leave them at that.

Experiments with changing the volume on all components (DACs, speakers, and preamp on the second system) produced no discernable difference to the amount or the character of the distortion. I also tried two headphones (Sony MDR-7506 and Audio-Technica ATH-M40x) with the same result.

Finally, I tried adjusting the Audio Quality for Amazon Music, checking "HD/Ultra HD" and the "Adjust Audio Quality" on or off. Again, there was no difference. I hear the same distortion every time. Unless we can identify some other cause with Loxjie DACs that only affects certain content, I think we have to conclude that the distortion is actually on the recordings. Likewise, with the tinny dialog on movies and TV series. (Amazon is the worst. But they are offering an dialog boost option on some titles. Initially, I was not impressed with it, but lately it seems to have improved.) Perhaps it has something to do with the compression used on streaming content.

Thank you for testing this, that means we can rule out a phenomenon.
I have the identical SMSL DO400 and am not familiar with this behavior, but I very rarely use Amazon for music and films run through my AVR.

I will test it with the DO400 via Amazon at the weekend. Can you please tell me a few more songs/albums and 1-2 films that have the problem?
And please test it with Spotify too, that should also work in the free version or with a trial subscription. Sometimes they also offer a trial month for 99 cents in high resolution.

Just for my information, which source devices, cable connection and length are used for the D40 and D60?

 

[ejr]

Thanks.

As stated above, the signal paths are as follows:

• LAN cable to Roku Ultra - Roku Ultra to TV via HDMI - TV to D60 via optical cable (at 480) - output to 3.1 Genelec powered speakers
• Wi-fi signal to iPad mini - iPad mini to D40 via USB (at 192) - output to 2 Genelec powered speakers

All the cables are relatively short (3 to 4 feet) except the single-ended speaker cables.
The single-ended speaker cables are 10 feet.
The balanced speaker cables are 3 feet long with XLR jacks.
The LAN cable is Cat 6.
The Wi-fi connection auto switches between 5G and 2.4 ghz.
The optical cables are 4ft.
The USB cables are the ones that shipped with the D40 and the D60. (I am using an extension on the one for the D60, so that it reaches my computer. But I haven't tried to play anything on that connection yet.)

NOTE: All the cables are good quality pro-grade (not audiophile grade).

One thing I did notice is that setting the quality of playback for Amazon Music (and not letting it degrade the quality if thinks it's too slow) is that changing it on amazon.com did not affect playback from my iPad. I had to change it on the iPad app to make that happen. Unfortunately, the Roku app doesn't allow the user to change the quality as far as I can tell.

Another thing, the titles in question are "ULTRA HD" quality, according to Amazon. It makes me wonder if they are doing some strange surround sound processing intended for listening on soundbars and the DACs aren't equipped to interpret it properly.

 

[guigui]

What is the difference between the DL400 and the DO400?