SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

[JIW]

@JIW
Thank you very much for your incredible effort.

My listening experience and comparisons with other ESS devices is different.
But that's not a very scientific approach.

Please correct me if I am wrong but your assumption is, the graph in the DL200 manual is correct and not just a copy from one manual to another?

Unfortunately I have no Audio Precision Analyzer or professional software but I could use my RME ADI-2 PRO + REW to get some filter measurements from the DL200.

Is the precision/resolution of this setup sufficient to obtain evaluable results?

But still, I would have to find the time.

It could be a copy. It seems identical to me. The date in the D-6S manual has been cropped out.

However, the DL200 and D-6S have the same coding of the volume control with the same error. Thus, I think there is a lot of overlap between the two.

There is also Amir's measurements.

Clearly FL3 is ESS2 and FL4 is ESS3. FL5 is probably ESS4 due to high stop band ripple and FL6 is ESS5 due to quicker attenuation of the slow filters. FL1 is ESS7 or ESS8 and FL2 and FL7 are unclear but are ESS1 and ESS6 or SMSL proprietary.

However, @dsnyder0cnn also did some measurements of a D-6S. Filter 2 is minimum phase as is evident from the impulse response.

Filter 7 is also minimum phase for the same reason.

The slightly higher stop band level for FL2 compared to FL7 strongly suggests that FL2 is ESS1 and FL7 is ESS6.

 

[JIW]

@staticV3

Thank you, that's nice.

As said I will try to find the time for research and how to do this correctly.
I have some basic knowledge but I could need a little bit of advice.

Is there a website or a forum thread that I could study, maybe with a similar setup with REW?

My plan would be to feed the DL200 over USB a 48 Khz signal from REW and record the response with the RME ADI-2 PRO at 192 kHz over USB. This should eliminate the A/D filter effects of the RME ADI-2 PRO and provide enough bandwidth.

Use 44.1k to more easily compare to all other measurements. Also set peaks to -4 dBFS on the white noise to avoid intersample overs. As seen here on a measurement by Archimago. Ignore the green part.

 

[JIW]

With the explained setup I measure the frequency response.

Would it be complicated to measure also the impulse (and/or step response)?

An additional impulse response would make it easier or more clear to determine the filter type.

It is just a single sample peak surrounded by lots of zeros. No idea how to make that in REW but could be made using other programs such as MATLAB. Maybe @dsnyder0cnn can send you his file.

 

[icy20]

Hey guys new here. I have a question. Did anyone try to see if the DL200 can play the same source from pc to the headphone jack and the line out simultaneously? I have a goxlr and i want the sound to go there as well except from playing at my sennheisers? If dl200 doesnt do that does anyone know of any other similar dac/amp that does that? A friend said fiio k7 does but it doesnt have a trs output. Thanks in advance

@staticV3 can you please see this one? Thanks

 

[JIW]

Hey guys new here. I have a question. Did anyone try to see if the DL200 can play the same source from pc to the headphone jack and the line out simultaneously? I have a goxlr and i want the sound to go there as well except from playing at my sennheisers? If dl200 doesnt do that does anyone know of any other similar dac/amp that does that? A friend said fiio k7 does but it doesnt have a trs output. Thanks in advance

It is either or. It only has settings for line out or headphone out.

Do you want to use the headphones out and the goxlr at the same time?

You can also use the pentaconn connector on the front to connect the DL200 to the goxlr. You need a pentaconn to 2 x XLR male for that like this. This will not be symmetrical but it might be balanced.

 

[Qu@rk]

Use 44.1k to more easily compare to all other measurements. Also set peaks to -4 dBFS on the white noise to avoid intersample overs. As seen here on a measurement by Archimago.

Thank you, great advice, I will do it that way.

 

[icy20]

Thanks. Then maybe i can use the 2 headphone jacks in front? The 3.5" for the goxlr and the other one for the headphones? If i understand correctly the bigger one is balanced? Will it work with non balanced cable? I have the 490 pros but i havent found any balanced cable for now.

It is either or. It only has settings for line out or headphone out.

Do you want to use the headphones our and the goxlr at the same time?

You can also use the pentaconn connector on the front to connect the DL200 to the goxlr. You need a pentaconn to 2 x XLR male for that like this. This will not be symmetrical but it might be balanced.

 

[JIW]

Thanks. Then maybe i can use the 2 headphone jacks in front? The 3.5" for the goxlr and the other one for the headphones? If i understand correctly the bigger one is balanced? Will it work with non balanced cable? I have the 490 pros but i havent found any balanced cable for now.

No. The smaller one may be but neither are symmetrical. Thus either can be connected to 3.5 mm TRS or 2x RCA without issue. However, I am not aware of any cables for the former.

Keep in mind that the level for both outputs is the same. If you raise the volume for the headphones, you also raise the level going into the goxlr.

What exactly is the input for the goxlr is it 3.5 mm TRS or something else?

If the input is 3.5 mm TRS, the K7 probably works better since you can just use a 3.5 mm TRS to 2 x RCA cable like this.

 

[icy20]

No. The smaller one may be but neither are symmetrical. Thus either can be connected to 3.5 mm TRS or 2x RCA without issue. However, I am not aware of any cables for the former.

Keep in mind that the level for both outputs is the same. If you raise the volume for the headphones, you also raise the level going into the goxlr.

What exactly is the input for the goxlr is it 3.5 mm TRS or something else?

If the input is 3.5 mm TRS, the K7 probably works better since you can just use a 3.5 mm TRS to 2 x RCA cable like this.

Yes the goxlr uses 3.5mm input or optical in. Right now i am using the exact same cable u have in the picture. I am using 2 rca line out outputs from my soundcard. But i plug my headphones to the headphone out of the goxlr. I thought using the dac headphone jack would give better results. The only downside for the k7 is that i cannot put monitor speakers in the future if needed. But either way i would prefer if i got the dl200. Seems better overall device.

 

[JIW]

Yes the goxlr uses 3.5mm input or optical in. Right now i am using the exact same cable u have in the picture. I am using 2 rca line out outputs from my soundcard. But i plug my headphones to the headphone out of the goxlr. I thought using the dac headphone jack would give better results. The only downside for the k7 is that i cannot put monitor speakers in the future if needed. But either way i would prefer if i got the dl200. Seems better overall device.

What do you use the goxlr for?

If you use the DAC, none of what you do with it will be sent to it unless you can send it back to your computer.

 

[icy20]

The goxlr is what sends everything to my stream pc. So it will stay that way no matter what. If i sell my current card the dac amp will do output the sound to any source. Either the goxlr and headphones. When i stream it has to be both. Right now i am sending the source to the line in of the goxlr and the headphones to the hewdphone output of the goxlr. Im not sure how will i do it if i go get a dac amp instead of the soundcard. Its a pretty tough setup to do correctly.

What do you use the goxlr for?

If you use the DAC, none of what you do with it will be sent to it unless you can send it back to your computer.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Im not sure how will i do it if i go get a dac amp instead of the soundcard. Its a pretty tough setup to do correctly.

You could use Voicemeeter Banana to mirror the output to your soundcard, or another USB DAC/dongle.

VB-Audio VoiceMeeter Banana

VoiceMeeter Banana, the Advanced Virtual Audio Mixer by V.Burel

vb-audio.com

 

[icy20]

I used that for years and always had some sort of problem . Goxlr solved everything and i could separate audio tracks on my recordings which is super helpful. It does too many good things on its own. I would change it only if something newer did even more stuff.

You could use Voicemeeter Banana to mirror the output to your soundcard, or another USB DAC/dongle.

VB-Audio VoiceMeeter Banana

VoiceMeeter Banana, the Advanced Virtual Audio Mixer by V.Burel

vb-audio.com

 

[Qu@rk]

Attached image shows the results of my measurements of all digital filters of the DL200 at 44.1 kHz.
Attached also REW's mdat file.

Feedback welcome!

 

[JIW]

Attached image shows the results of my measurements of all digital filters of the DL200 at 44.1 kHz.
Attached also REW's mdat file.

Feedback welcome!

That peak at 34 kHz is odd. Can you record silence or a very low level signal? Can you also change the sample rate of the ADC? Since all filters have it, use only the one with the greatest stop band attenuation, i.e. FL3 or FL4.

What about the impulse responses?

 

[Qu@rk]

I tried 96 kHz ADC and 192 kHz ADC, the peak at 33.5 kHz appears in FL2 to FL6, FL1 is "clean".

Unfortunately my knowledge of REW how to measure or better said how to visualize the IR is limited.

It would be great if there was any advice how to measure/visualize the IR for a DAC in REW (or other software) correctly with my equipment (ADI-2 PRO).

I have used ARTA (powerful but dufficult to use, better suited for speakers measurements) to measure and visualize the IR. But there must be a better way.

 

[JIW]

I tried 96 kHz ADC and 192 kHz ADC, the peak at 33.5 kHz appears in FL2 to FL6, FL1 is "clean".

Unfortunately my knowledge of REW how to measure or better said how to visualize the IR is limited.

It would be great if there was any advice how to measure/visualize the IR for a DAC in REW (or other software) correctly with my equipment (ADI-2 PRO).

I have used ARTA (powerful but dufficult to use, better suited for speakers measurements) to measure and visualize the IR. But there must be a better way.

It is in FL1 as well. It is just masked by the noise because it has not reached full attenuation. There is a little peak also if you zoom in.

So far, it's not the ADC's sample rate.

The IR figures are fine and confirm what I wrote before. They clarify that FL1 is ESS8 and not ESS7.

Is the peak also there during silence or a low level signal, e.g. -140 dB white noise.

 

[Grael]

33,750 Hz can be video signal (hdmi ?) interference.
Change the resolution and/or refresh frequency to confirm

 

[Qu@rk]

It is in FL1 as well. It is just masked by the noise because it has not reached full attenuation. There is a little peak also if you zoom in.


So far, it's not the ADC's sample rate.

The IR figures are fine and confirm what I wrote before. They clarify that FL1 is ESS8 and not ESS7.

Is the peak also there during silence or a low level signal, e.g. -140 dB white noise.

The peak is also there at silence (no signal, foobar2000 stopped) or if I disconnect the DL200 from the ADI-2 PRO.

33,750 Hz can be video signal (hdmi ?) interference.
Change the resolution and/or refresh frequency to confirm

Very good point, thank you! But stupid Windows 11 does not let me change the physical resolution on my test system, it only rescales the image if I select a lower resolution.
It always keeps the standard resolution of my monitor: 1440p@60 (2560x1440@60 Hz).
But these video timings are far away from this peak. Maybe something else in my system is not clean.
It could be the switching power supply.

The IR figures are fine and confirm what I wrote before. They clarify that FL1 is ESS8 and not ESS7.

So the final filter list for the SMSL DL200 would be (by @JIW):

SMSL FL1 - Minimum phase slow roll-off low dispersion (ESS #8)
SMSL FL2 - Minimum phase (ESS #1)
SMSL FL3 - Linear phase apodizing fast roll-off (ESS #2)
SMSL FL4 - Linear phase fast roll-off (ESS #3)
SMSL FL5 - Linear phase fast roll-off low ripple (ESS #4)
SMSL FL6 - Linear phase slow roll-off (ESS #5)
SMSL FL7 - Minimum phase fast roll-off (ESS #6)

Correct? (and therefore not identical to the SMSL D-6s, as @JIW explained before)

 

[JIW]

The peak is also there at silence (no signal, foobar2000 stopped) or if I disconnect the DL200 from the ADI-2 PRO.



Very good point, thank you! But stupid Windows 11 does not let me change the physical resolution on my test system, it only rescales the image if I select a lower resolution.
It always keeps the standard resolution of my monitor: 1440p@60 (2560x1440@60 Hz).
But these video timings are far away from this peak. Maybe something else in my system is not clean.
It could be the switching power supply.



So the final filter list for the SMSL DL200 would be (by @JIW):

SMSL FL1 - Minimum phase slow roll-off low dispersion (ESS #8)
SMSL FL2 - Minimum phase (ESS #1)
SMSL FL3 - Linear phase apodizing fast roll-off (ESS #2)
SMSL FL4 - Linear phase fast roll-off (ESS #3)
SMSL FL5 - Linear phase fast roll-off low ripple (ESS #4)
SMSL FL6 - Linear phase slow roll-off (ESS #5)
SMSL FL7 - Minimum phase fast roll-off (ESS #6)

Correct? (and therefore not identical to the SMSL D-6s, as @JIW explained before)

So it's not from the DAC. Good to know.

This is the noise spectrum of the ADI-2 Pro ADC at 192 kHz from the manual. No spike. Either the power is really bad or there is some interference between DAC and ADC. Have you tried using the ADC without anything connected? That should rule out interference on the cable going to the ADC.

The filters are listed correctly.

The frequency responses are identical as far as I can tell. @dsnyder0cnn only measured the impulse responses of FL2, FL3 and FL7. Those are identical as far as I can tell. I would say the filters are the same for the DL200 and D-6S.