SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

[Yersinia Bestmate]

I'm thinking of gettting rid of SMSL producsts and going back to Topping/CA/Ifi once I update operating system in my no. 1 set from win10 to win11. There were never ANY of these problems with products from the aforementioned manufacturers when using win11 which I have in my second set. It is unbelievable that such a small issue cannot be fixed.

Topping L70 would be my choise. Nice looks, good chip, good connectivity, BIG and bright screen. And - I hope - no pop/click issues. I used to have E30 II and it was a very competent DAC. I never liked the orange screen but it had auto-on/off (which DL200 does not have).

 

[jozhix]

Does anyone know for sure whether the XLR and RCA outputs of the DL200 use separate output driver stages? So you could use both simultaneously without impedance or signal degradation.

Maybe some info also for the DO100 in this regard?

I am using both rca and trs at the same time to get output to my sub. Not sure about signal degradation, sounds same as with y split cable.

 

[Qu@rk]

I'm thinking of gettting rid of SMSL producsts and going back to Topping/CA/Ifi once I update operating system in my no. 1 set from win10 to win11. There were never ANY of these problems with products from the aforementioned manufacturers when using win11 which I have in my second set. It is unbelievable that such a small issue cannot be fixed.

Topping L70 would be my choise. Nice looks, good chip, good connectivity, BIG and bright screen. And - I hope - no pop/click issues. I used to have E30 II and it was a very competent DAC. I never liked the orange screen but it had auto-on/off (which DL200 does not have).

Unfortunately it is not as easy as that. I had the same thoughts.
Many similar stories for Topping products as well.
Just read the A70 pro thread, was it not the first L30 which fried headphones?
And so on.

Both companies produce quick and dirty developed banana products "ripening at the customer's premises". Especially the firmwares are mostly very buggy and updates are rare. It seems that firmware development is the most expensive part of these products.

Btw, as I posted before: Long press the FN button (3 seconds or so) on the remote of the DL200 to toggle auto display off.

 

[Justin44]

I'm thinking of gettting rid of SMSL producsts and going back to Topping/CA/Ifi once I update operating system in my no. 1 set from win10 to win11. There were never ANY of these problems with products from the aforementioned manufacturers when using win11 which I have in my second set. It is unbelievable that such a small issue cannot be fixed.

Topping L70 would be my choise. Nice looks, good chip, good connectivity, BIG and bright screen. And - I hope - no pop/click issues. I used to have E30 II and it was a very competent DAC. I never liked the orange screen but it had auto-on/off (which DL200 does not have).

I have a DX5 and I get pops and clicks changing sampling rates, the latest firmware fixed it but broke other things so had to downgrade

 

[renaudrenaud]

I'm thinking of gettting rid of SMSL producsts and going back to Topping/CA/Ifi once I update operating system in my no. 1 set from win10 to win11. There were never ANY of these problems with products from the aforementioned manufacturers when using win11 which I have in my second set. It is unbelievable that such a small issue cannot be fixed.

Topping L70 would be my choise. Nice looks, good chip, good connectivity, BIG and bright screen. And - I hope - no pop/click issues. I used to have E30 II and it was a very competent DAC. I never liked the orange screen but it had auto-on/off (which DL200 does not have).

DL200 has auto off screen. Push 2 seconds the FN button on the remote: the screen will print OFF and then will be active only 5 seconds each change (input, volume...).

In your case I will stop to use Windows and go for another OS like Linux: it is unbelievable people continue to use a system where issues cannot be fixed, and continue with the DL200.

 

[spigot]

With foobar2000, does using a 30ms fade in/out (for pause/stop, seek, manual track change) have any impact on the clicks?

 

[jozhix]

I am reading about clicks, but still no audible clicks or pops from my unit. My source is Wiim over optical cable. Tried to disable Fadein&FadeOut effects, but still dead silence between changing tracks.
Searching for "Smsl dl200 clicks" produce no results in youtube. Any recorded evidence to examine?

 

[Deleted member 68540]

We have been discussing clicks on the DL200. I have recently updated the firmware and posted above that, after updates, I am no longer hearing clicks with my Fidelio X3, which are slightly harder to drive than my other headphones. I have just tested, however, and I continue to hear clicks with my Sony headphones (MDR-1RBT MK2 and WH-1000XM2). I have tested the DL200 both on Windows 11 and on my Android phone. The problem, thus, does not seem to be Windows-related.

Now, neither does the problem appear to be DL200-related. Listening through my Sony headphones, I hear the exact same clicks with my HiBy FC4 in all situations where I hear them with the DL200. Is this then something more broadly USB-related? Does anyone hear clicks in transitions between tracks of different sample rates with other DACs as well?

Like the DL200, though, the HiBy FC4 is an amazing DAC. I am thus wondering whether we have been singling out the DL200 here for something that is not exclusive to it.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I:m thus wondering whether we have been singling out the DL200 here for something that is not exclusive to it.

This may well be true and there are numerous delay and fade options in streaming software and devices to reduce or eliminate DAC clicks during transitions which suggests that it is a common issue, although none of these options have made any difference for me with the DL200.

From my experience, I don't have the same issue with my other current DACS (KGUSS DAC K3 pro, Quedelix 5K, and Tempotec Sonata HD ii), and I don't recall having this issue with my old Fiio K5 pro or BTR5.

 

[Deleted member 68540]

@FreakyKiwi , have you tested them recently? I had never noticed the clicks with the FC4 until this was proclaimed as a problem here on ASR in relation to the DL200.

 

[Decimeter2399]

Just a heads up. I've ordered it in hifi-express, shipping from France, and the shipment has been stuck with no updates for over a month.
Sent an email 3 weeks ago and they took a week to reply just saying they would open a case with the service provider. No updates since then. I would be wary of ordering it here if you're in Europe.

Never arrived but they eventually, after the 3 months, offered me a refund.

Bought it again through amazon since it's now available even though it's more expensive. Happy I did though as I will have to return it.
The intent was to use this for my personal(Windows/Linux) through USB and work(Windows) computer through USB or Bluetooth, to drive my headphones and IEMs.

I was annoyed that I have to go through loops to get this working without constant popping whenever sound starts/ends and to avoid the delay on sound start on my windows and Linux machines but it's manageable. A big caveat in windows is that you need to install the driver, which is not happening on most work computers, which is where I spend most of my time.

The biggest reason why I'm returning this is the noise when I'm connected through Bluetooth. There's an ever present whining noise and a rhythmic clicking noise very noticeable when nothing is playing, tested with multiple devices. Strangely enough I only notice it when the Bluetooth antenna is connected. Without it works fine but I'm not going to always have the source device right next to the DAC and keeping a Bluetooth device that can't work properly with the antenna is dumb.

Which is unfortunate because otherwise, the sound is great and I don't notice any extra noise, besides the ones mentioned above, wether music is playing or not, which was one of the reasons I wanted to replace my current DAC.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

@FreakyKiwi , have you tested them recently? I had never noticed the clicks with the FC4 until this was proclaimed as a problem here on ASR in relation to the DL200.

To test I swapped to the KGUSS using the optical out from the Wiim Pro and can hear no pops or clicks at all and nothing but silence between tracks.
Switching back to the SMSL, using the same high sensitivity AKL K361 headphones, I can hear the clicks, albeit very quiet with the DAC correctly set to low gain.

The SMSL Dl-200 sounds so much better than the KGUSS DAC K3 Pro (US$200 vs US$60) though so I'm still very happy with it.
With my new pair of Hifiman Edition XS headphones I don't notice the clicks at all, and the sound through the DL-200 is sublime.

My other DACS are lower powered portable USB DACS so I can't easily test without switching back to a USB source.
I use the Quedelix 5K every day using USB input from my gaming laptop with a Hyper-X Cloud II headset and have never noticed any unexpected noises, but it is fixed at 48kHz which is required to support the microphone input.

 

[Deleted member 68540]

To test I swapped to the KGUSS using the optical out from the Wiim Pro and can hear no pops or clicks at all and nothing but silence between tracks.
Switching back to the SMSL, using the same high sensitivity AKL K361 headphones, I can hear the clicks, albeit very quiet with the DAC correctly set to low gain.

The SMSL Dl-200 sounds so much better than the KGUSS DAC K3 Pro (US$200 vs US$60) though so I'm still very happy with it.
With my new pair of Hifiman Edition XS headphones I don't notice the clicks at all, and the sound through the DL-200 is sublime.

My other DACS are lower powered portable USB DACS so I can't easily test without switching back to a USB source.
I use the Quedelix 5K every day using USB input from my gaming laptop with a Hyper-X Cloud II headset and have never noticed any unexpected noises, but it is fixed at 48kHz which is required to support the microphone input.

Thanks a lot for checking! I wonder whether you would hear clicks with the DL200 in optical mode either? Via Bluetooth/LDAC, I am happy to report no clicks whatsoever even with my Sony headphones. I am using UAPP, which in fact, amazingly seems to broadcast @192kHz via LDAC to the DL200 -- at this moment sending audio at 5159 Kbps! I didn't think this was possible at all?

MQA is somehow reduced to 88.2kHz by UAPP, though, so better disable it, unless there is a setting I am missing.

@Decimeter2399 I also have this bluetooth problem you reported intermitently, though in my case it seems to be some sort of interference when my monitor is turning on. Doesn't happen with LDAC in best-effort mode.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I wonder whether you would hear clicks with the DL200 in optical mode either?

I am using the DL200 with optical (with clicks). All I did was swap the optical cable to my other DAC (with no clicks)

amazingly seems to broadcast @192kHz via LDAC to the DL200 -- at this moment sending audio at 5159 Kbps! I didn't think this was possible at all?

LDAC is only capable of 990kbps so not sure what is happening there.

 

[Deleted member 68540]

I am using the DL200 with optical (with clicks). All I did was swap the optical cable to my other DAC (with no clicks)

LDAC is only capable of 990kbps so not sure what is happening there.

Thanks. Will test with optical here. Not sure either what the LDAC magic is, but UAPP says it's happening. It also happens with the @352kHz MQAs via USB on Tidal, which was supposed to be limited to 192kHz, correct? DL200's display does show 352, though.

 

[Qu@rk]

LDAC: simple and short: everything that exceeds 990 kbps will be downsampled, but it is a bit more complicated.

The ultimate guide to Bluetooth headphones: LDAC isn't Hi-res

Sony’s LDAC has risen to popularity as the audiophile-grade Bluetooth codec. Can LDAC match the quality of wired 24-bit/96kHz Hi-Res audio?

www.soundguys.com

DC at line outputs:
Unit 1: RCA max 1.8 mV, TRS max 5.7 mV
Unit 2: RCA max 0.8 mV, TRS max 3.2 mV

I have found a lot of information about DC offset with power amps but not for line outputs.

Are 5.7 mV for a line output too much?

DO100:
RCA max 1.2 mV, XLR max 5.4 mV

Always the right TRS/XLR channel has the higher DC offset.

The max differential DC offset between hot (+) and cold (-) of the TRS/XLR outputs is max 1.2 mV.

Edit: Added DO100 results

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Thanks. Will test with optical here. Not sure either what the LDAC magic is, but UAPP says it's happening. It also happens with the @352kHz MQAs via USB on Tidal, which was supposed to be limited to 192kHz, correct? DL200's display does show 352, though.

Not that I have tried or know much about Bluetooth support in UAPP, but I doubt that the app has native access to the Bluetooth encoder.
I suspect that it is passing the full resolution audio to Android, so is displaying the high bitrates, but this is them getting down sampled through the Bluetooth encoder.
Or can you see the high bitrates reaching the DAC somehow?

Ditto for MQA which I also avoid, but I believe that "unfolding" MQA will double the bitrate output to the DAC.

 

[Deleted member 68540]

Not that I have tried or know much about Bluetooth support in UAPP, but I doubt that the app has native access to the Bluetooth encoder.
I suspect that it is passing the full resolution audio to Android, so is displaying the high bitrates, but this is them getting down sampled through the Bluetooth encoder.
Or can you see the high bitrates reaching the DAC somehow?

Ditto for MQA which I also avoid, but I believe that "unfolding" MQA will double the bitrate output to the DAC.

No idea either. I have bit perfect mode enabled and am using Bluetooth mode rather than the HiRes chip (not sure whether the mobile's or the DL200's). Images below. While the transfer rate may be just the file's, data still appears to be going to the DL200 at 192kHz, which I understand is above LDAC's theoretical limit?

On USB/MQA: it makes sense, though then it should be 384kHz?

 

[staticV3]

While the transfer rate may be just the file's, data still appears to be going to the DL200 at 192kHz, which I understand is above LDAC's theoretical limit?

The DL200 will tell you what sample rate it is receiving from your phone:

 

[Deleted member 68540]

The DL200 will tell you what sample rate it is receiving from your phone:
View attachment 337166View attachment 337168View attachment 337169View attachment 337170

How? Mine only shows 'Ldc'; no sample rate even as I transit between functions