SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

[Nutul]

I'm no expert but does it matter? Padding from 16 or 24 to 32 bits is surely just a case of adding zeroes?

In any case I can't get native DSD to work with Squeezelite, and only with DoP if I exclude the dsd codec (-e dsd) and enable DoP in the DSD player plugin.
The tracks I have are multi channel which is probably the reason they won't play without conversion.

I need to convert or delete my handful of DSD tracks as I really shouldn't be wasting time on this niche format with questionable advantages over 16/44 FLAC..

You shouldn't need to covert them, as your player of choice should automatically detect only 2 channels and downmix the other channels, e.g. SR BR => FR, SL BL => FL, LFE to both channels.
The worst scenario is your software ignoring such thing and using only FR FL, but I think almost all software nowadays does downmixing.

 

[Nutul]

Like Freaky mentions, 16 can just be padded to 24-bit without issues.

If your DAC offers 24 bit input stream, of course. If it does not, your 16 bit streams get padded to 32. My DAC for example only has 16 and 32 for PCM, and only 32 for DSD (but this is a complete different thing), and my player (MPD) does automatic padding to every 24-bit stream to 32, leaving the redbook 16/44.1 in 16 bit.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

You shouldn't need to covert them, as your player of choice should automatically detect only 2 channels and downmix the other channels, e.g. SR BR => FR, SL BL => FL, LFE to both channels.
The worst scenario is your software ignoring such thing and using only FR FL, but I think almost all software nowadays does downmixing.

Yes, software playback is fine, but native doesn"t work. This would require the DAC to do the diwnmuxing which I wouldn't expect a stereo DAC to do.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I've just Googled for "Volumio pops and clicks" and there are a lot of results from their own forum going back years.

I'll do some testing using Moode and PcP on my Pi, UAPP on my phone, and optical from my Chromecast Audio to see if I have the same issue.
I'd rather not be using Volumio being a "freemium" product but it has a great DSP and is a very polished package.

At this stage I'm happy with the DAC and believe that such issues are expected with DIY audio.

 

[th2j]

i find that strange to have only 32bit input
because with some files i can see that at the beginning of the playback, squeezelite is using 200% of cpu (certainly to convert the file)
so i would prefer to play native file

 

[Nutul]

i find that strange to have only 32bit input
because with some files i can see that at the beginning of the playback, squeezelite is using 200% of cpu (certainly to convert the file)
so i would prefer to play native file

Well, when it comes to hardware, you just cannot. You can always convert the files yourself, so that squeezelite will have no business there.
It's very strange though... on my Pi, MPD does not increase the CPU usage by a hair, and it does so continuously, as I play 24bits at least 2 hours a day...

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I've just Googled for "Volumio pops and clicks" and there are a lot of results from their own forum going back years.

I'll do some testing using Moode and PcP on my Pi, UAPP on my phone, and optical from my Chromecast Audio to see if I have the same issue.
I'd rather not be using Volumio being a "freemium" product but it has a great DSP and is a very polished package.

At this stage I'm happy with the DAC and believe that such issues are expected with DIY audio.

The Chromecast Audio doesn't click/pop when stopping or starting tracks but does when there is a delay between tracks causing the stream to stop.
I can fix this by enabling crossfade so all good there, but I don't think that the CCA optical sounds as good as USB anyway.

I can't find a spare SD card to test Moode or PcP.

I have disconnected my Volumio Pi Zero 2W and am using the Squeezelite Windows PC instead which only clicks on a bitrate change which I can fix with the bitrate delay setting.
I'm using the FFMPEG build of Squeezelite so have better codec support too and it is Gb ethernet connected so easily handles the DSD files either using DoP or transcoded by the DSD player plugin, while the Pi Zero 2W has terrible Wifi and completely fails, with Volumio at least, to play DSD at all.

The clicks are certainly produced by the DAC as I hear them even when switching inputs.

Hopefully SMSL will modify the muting or "Always On" default behavior with a firmware update.
It's not a huge issue for me on headphones but if I was using the DAC with my lounge room speakers and sub it may be more annoying.

I'm looking to replace the CCA with a Wiim Pro to get a nearly universal (C'mon Apple!!!!) streamer which would be a good replacement for the features of Volumio and not a DIY solution.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

With Squeezelite, you can keep the dac opened. This is the default setting.
Look at your parameters and remove -C parameter if you have it

OMG, this was it. I rechecked the Volumio command line for the Squeezelite MC plugin and -C 1 was included in the suggested command which would close the stream after 1 second and cause the DAC to click.
I presume that this is needed to release the device for other plugins and sources, I've increased the setting to 30 seconds in case I do use direct playback or other plugins in future.

The DAC still shouldn't click but this will stop most of them for me.

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

Can folks please englighten a peasant traveling in the dark - does this click/pop issue plague users with PC Win 10/11 (Tidal desktop, fixed sample rate 44.1/24) as the signal source and USB as data link?

Or is it purely a Raspberry issue..?

Planning to buy one as it seems like a very competent product on paper at least.

 

[degen]

I have good news to report. I just had a listening session, and except for a few clicks and pops at the beginning, before I began playing music, there were further no clicks or pops in the session!

Of note, since my previous session where I experienced this problem, three things changed:
- Microsoft Store updated Apple Music Preview. I doubt this was the reason as the clicks occurred even when nothing was playing and the app was closed.
- I completely disabled Nahimic (from MSI motherboard) completely. However, this functionality should only relate to the outputs of the onboard Realtek Audio (?), and all options were disabled anyway.
- I upgraded my motherboard BIOS. Among the changes are "- Improved USB device compatibility." I suspect this is what has resolved my issues.

At this point and time I have to say that it appears that the problem was with my hardware or software, and not the DL200. I will edit my original post.

I have finally fixed it now.

It turns out my mute/click/pop issue wasn’t fixed at the time I made that post. The issue continued to be triggered by using the OS normally while listening to music. When just listening to music there was no issue. I think the various sounds produced by the OS interface or websites caused the issue.

What finally fixed it was the Streaming “Always On” driver .xml tweak.

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

Hello friends. I'm asking for your help. I have a small collection of Akg headphones: k701, k702, k612pro. I love their enchanting sound and spacious soundstage. Recently, I purchased the Hifiman Sundara headphones. I mainly listen to music on my older modified F.Audio xs02 portable player and Fiio k5pro. However, I use Fiio more for watching movies. Both the Akg and Sundara headphones seem to have a slight lack of bass. Please recommend a DAC with an amplifier for watching movies and listening to music in the price range of up to 300 euros. It could either have strong bass or an equalizer and a good soundstage. I plan to connect it via optical. I'm considering options like the Smsl dl200, Smsl al200, and Topping dx3pro+. Thanks in advance.

Check iFi Audio products, some of their DAC/HPamps have an analogue bass boost. I've used basic iFi Zen Air with my AKG K701 headphones just because of the bass boost which works well with bass deficient AKG:s. Doesn't have an optical in, though..

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Can folks please englighten a peasant traveling in the dark - does this click/pop issue plague users with PC Win 10/11 (Tidal desktop, fixed sample rate 44.1/24) as the signal source and USB as data link?

Or is it purely a Raspberry issue..?

Planning to buy one as it seems like a very competent product on paper at least.

The clicks are very quiet and only occur, regardless of OS, when starting the stream and switching bitrate (or DAC inputs).

The stream can be kept open by using the hidden "Always On" setting in the Windows XMOS driver or by not setting squeezelite to close the stream too quickly if you need to do this at all to support other streaming sources.

The clicks will still occur at the start or when changing bitrate.

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

The clicks are very quiet and only occur, regardless of OS, when starting the stream and switching bitrate (or DAC inputs).

The stream can be kept open by using the hidden "Always On" setting in the Windows XMOS driver or by not setting squeezelite to close the stream too quickly if you need to do this at all to support other streaming sources.

The clicks will still occur at the start or when changing bitrate.

Thanks for the reply!

Do you mean playback stream, ie. when music is playing when you wrote "stream can be kept open"? And I have no idea what squeezelite is and would I need it. I'd be using the DAC just as I've used previous ones; PC-usb-DAC-rca-AMP.

But anyway this seems odd.. I mean, in some of the posts in this thread have vids where you can hear pops and clicks all the time when listening to music so it seems that the issue is not limited to switching bitrate/input or starting to play music. Or then there are more than one kind click/pop-issue.

Too bad, I was just about to order it.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Thanks for the reply!

Do you mean playback stream, ie. when music is playing when you wrote "stream can be kept open"? And I have no idea what squeezelite is and would I need it. I'd be using the DAC just as I've used previous ones; PC-usb-DAC-rca-AMP.

But anyway this seems odd.. I mean, in some of the posts in this thread have vids where you can hear pops and clicks all the time when listening to music so it seems that the issue is not limited to switching bitrate/input or starting to play music. Or then there are more than one kind click/pop-issue.

Too bad, I was just about to order it.

Squeezelite is the endpoint software for Logitech Media Server which I use to stream to my Pi running Volumio (with the Squeezelite plugin), Windows PC running squeezelite in a service wrapper, Marantz AVR using DLNA, and Chromecast Audio using cast bridge.

I don't have the issue with noises during playback, only when first starting and switching bitrates.
It sounds like these playback noises are due to.other processes making noise or starving the CPU in the source system and may be caused by a poorly isolated player process.

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

^ Ok. So would it be safe to assume that I would not have the click/pop issue since I wouldn't be using Logitech media server, Squeezelite nor do I have Pi running Volumio? I'd be using fixed bitrate- and depth, Win10 PC with tidal HiFi as the source, and connection to the source using usb.

Sorry if I'm being dumb.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

It doesn"t matter what player or source you use, USB, optical, or coax.

You will have the click when starting the stream, when the stream stops (use the Always On "hack" to keep it on in Windows) or when changing bitrate.

I'd rather not have the issue but am otherwise happy with this DAC.
Hopefully SMSL can fix this with a firmware update.

 

[adelias]

It doesn"t matter what player or source you use, USB, optical, or coax.

You will have the click when starting the stream, when the stream stops (use the Always On "hack" to keep it on in Windows) or when changing bitrate.

I'd rather not have the issue but am otherwise happy with this DAC.
Hopefully SMSL can fix this with a firmware update.

Are you hearing the clicks with other Windows software or only with Squeezelite?

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Are you hearing the clicks with other Windows software or only with Squeezelite?

The issue is not related to any particular app or operating system but can be minimised by options available to keep the stream active. The clicks also occur when starting a stream to a Chromecast audio connected via optical.

 

[Yersinia Bestmate]

Tossed the dices and ordered DL200 anyway. I'm just hoping that I didn't make a +200 euro mistake.

To be honest I still don't understand click/pop issue completely. People keep talking about squeezewhatever, Pi, Linux, LMS, et cetera in relation to the issue but then again according to, for example, @FreakyKiwi, the issue is not related to the aforementioned softwares but is universal. So far I have not seen any complaints about the issue without the mention of squeezes or raspberries. Or maybe I just haven't found them. Weird stuff.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Tossed the dices and ordered DL200 anyway. I'm just hoping that I didn't make a +200 euro mistake.

To be honest I still don't understand click/pop issue completely. People keep talking about squeezewhatever, Pi, Linux, LMS, et cetera in relation to the issue but then again according to, for example, @FreakyKiwi, the issue is not related to the aforementioned softwares but is universal. So far I have not seen any complaints about the issue without the mention of squeezes or raspberries. Or maybe I just haven't found them. Weird stuff.

Don't worry about it, it's a great unit regardless.