SMSL DA9 - Wait and see, or solid buy?

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Sell it. Life's too short to keep an amp that you don't care.

It was bought on amazon so I suppose it has some warranty. Which will be handled by SMSL.
If no I'll probably do a charge back.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I found interesting behavior. When I set input and volume the memory works I can switch on and off the unit and volume level and input is remembered.
Just as I'm dimming the screen or changing soft clipping settings the unit cannot remember the settings. And after every power cycle default settings are loaded.

 

[fluxcapacitor]

i can't say, it looks cheaper built than da-9

 

[Boxermotor]

My second DA9 is having real bad noise from 45 onwards on bluetooth. At 70, its ridiculous. Phone is an old Samsung S7 Edge. With the volume at 70 and the phones volume at 0, a weird high pitched noise is heard. Increase the volume on the phone by one notch and the sound becomes scrambled. What is causing this and how do I solve it?

Just saw your post. I tried out my DS9 today. Same thing - noise from 45 onward using Bluetooth! Awesome amp, otherwise…

 

[Graham849]

I too owned the DA-9 but replaced it with the AO200 for one major reason, I wanted the display to "auto-off" because it is my preferance.
The amplifiers definitely do sound different. There are a few visible component differences as well as the length of the trace for the circuitry for the op-amps. Like you said, you like the sound of the DA-9 with your Wharfedale speakers and with your chosen DAC. It could be that component matching is somehow better, or your ears simply prefer the sound. The AO200 does sound different. With my equipment, it's less forward than the DA-9, It's got a little bit more of a lower midbass bump (very slight), the extreme upper registers are with my speakers clearer and better staged. I use the RME ADI-2 DAC fs, mostly it's set to flat other than at night to cut the bass for the sake of the neighbours.

I think that both amplifiers definitely have small differences and that dac performance and matching for sonic character is more important than spec sheets. Both amplifiers sound extremely good. The differences are not huge and I think that the chosen source material, method of transfer of the audio file itself has more to do with the sound than the amplifiers themselves. It's amazing that 15-20 years ago you would pay $1500-$2000 for similar sonic fidelity, and possibly not reach the level of sound quality that these new Chinese Class-D amplifiers can provide and offer. I think the future is very bright for hi-fi from these less established companies as long as they get the quality control under control.

I love my AO200, it simply works and does exactly what i want. I wish it had literally double the output power and double the power-supply if not more than double the current supply from the PSU. I'm sure that's coming in a year or two. A 4-500 watt Infineon/Merus Amplifier in a case that isn't much larger than the AO200 would be fantastic and looking at the actual amplifiers internals, it's definitely possible. They would have to make a PCB that is multi-level, rather than a single sheet to make the room. I would happily pay $500-$600 for such an amplifier. With all of the sound quality that the AO200 and DA-9 offer. If both the DA-9 and AO200 had double the power output, I think all of the small (not really complaints, but wants/desires for more) would be resolved and then some. Class-D is an odd thing. A tube amplifier operates by converting massive amounts of current through huge output transformers. Class-D doesn't do this. Tube amplifiers draw 100% of it's current the instant it's powered up, the volume knob is just an attenuator. Class-D is power on demand. It's PWM, it's good, it's a good compromise, but it's a compromise. With a tube amplifier, a 40watt tube amplifier will sound incredibly powerful and loud for mostly all consumers. If you have very large and expensive speakers (speakers that easily cost as much as a compact car, new), then you'll want a much more powerful tube amplifier which they do make. Hopefully your house's electrical system is up to par to supply all that current that is demanded. There's a lot of ways to make high performing, high fidelity amplifiers.

We are now at a level in consumer grade audio that is only possible because of Class-D and also cheap labour and also property values in certain countries. It's high time that the old guard of established brands take note of the newer upstarts and pay attention. They are beating the old guard at their own game. Many people ask me what amplifier, what speaker they should get next. I never hesitate to recommend SMSL amplifiers. I also don't hesitate to suggest $25 TPA3116D2 amplifiers. Some of them sound incredibly good especially when you pair them with a 24v 10amp power supply. Of course the SMSL offerings are better, but on budget, or for something in your garage? A cheap TPA3116D2 will more than suffice. The audio world has changed, the consumers are very aware of this, it seems the old guard is still hanging on to yesteryear.

The Topping PA5 is it? That amplifier has my attention. I know of several people who have them on order and are awaiting delivery so they can take it apart! I really want to know how they made it. Topping hasn't made a power amplifier for a while, not one worth really mentioning. This new one seems to be a game changer on specs alone.

I'm also a fan of transistor amplifiers and tube amplifiers and have several of each, including many class-D amplifiers. Each one has it's benefits and negatives. We're spoiled for choice. It's a great time to be an audio-nut!

I agree with your comments about the sonic differences. They exist. It is definitely speaker dependent and DAC dependent though. Some speakers like my own custom built speakers (designed by me) sounded far better with the AO200 over the DA-9 in every regard. The DA-9 was comparatively overly forward sounding and a bit on the "bright" side. However the AO200 is also very sensitive to impedance loading. I think it's the internal zobel circuit that makes this more or less apparent. The best results I've had so far with the AO200 for sound reproduction with everything being the same is with a 4ohm speaker with medium sensitivity, something in the mid 80db/watt region. 6ohm speakers sound ok, but there's something strange that happens with a 6ohm nominal speaker, I think it's a phase issue, maybe the crossover network inside the speaker. 8ohm speakers play fine regardless of the complexity of the crossover. I paired the AO200 and DA-9 to a 3 way speaker that has a 24db/octave crossover for all drivers and the amplifier was unphased by the loading. In fact it sounded as good as when playing a 4ohm load. 6 ohm loading could be something to do with the crossover. My guess is that the tweeter is crossed over at 6db/octave and the woofer at 12db/octave. That would create a phase issue if not dealt with properly.

Regardless the amplifiers are both extremely capable and reproduce and do exactly what they are supposed to do, amplify the input signal as cleanly as possible and make things louder. Of course that means any short comings will also become more apparent. Component matching becomes important be it a DAC or other intermediary pre-amplifier, they all have different input/output impedance and capacitance. Amplifiers are sensitive to these things. Sometimes you find a magical combination that really works fantastically well, other times, it's less than optimal.

I'm glad that your findings are very much in line with my own. Slightly different, but that's down to equipment and listening habits I'm sure. Both amps are very capable. I don't think there's much need for a debate on which is better, I think it's purely preference when amplifiers perform at such a high level, and lets not forget the incredible bargain basement pricing.

@MarkWinston I agree with you and your assessment. Objective and also adding just enough subjective opinion to help those who haven't made the purchase decision. I think personally at some point, the physical appearance also takes a role. I like that the display can be shut off by timer, for me, this is a must have. I don't think there's a wrong choice between the two. There will always be the latest and greatest Class-D amplifier, it's the natural progression of things. Sometimes a certain company will make a product that is incredibly overpriced for their customer base, and they simply do not sell, nor do they have many reviews or discussions on many audio forums. Companies should listen to their customers, provide what they want and improve on what they have successfully created. Making 10 new amplifiers in a production year only serves to confuse the customer. I'm not mentioning the brand on purpose, but I'm sure you know full well who I'm speaking of.

I hope you continue to enjoy your amplifier(s). The AO200 took about 2 weeks for me to fully "burn-in". I noticed small changes for a week. Each time I would unplug the amplifier from the mains and let it sit for an hour before plugging the amp back in. I'd leave the volume to the same level, and use the same music to hear any improvements. I noticed the same process with the DA-9. Maybe more pronounced with the DA-9 but mine was an early production DA-9. So who knows!

Above all else, it's up to you to decide if you like what you hear. It's not my amplifier in your home/room, or your speakers or DAC. If you like it, that should be more than enough unless you want to brag to your friends about your new fangled awesome amplifier! lol.

Take care!

Thanks for your many comments at ASR I have learnt a lot. Just interested in your thoughts 8 months on about AO200, thanks g

 

[vrobec]

Hello all! I have Marantz 2230 receiver and Harman Kardon HK680 integrated amp. Reading about this new stuff like SMSL DA-9, SMSL AO100 and AO200 amps thinking how compares vintage versus new if the sound quality is the most important criterium?

 

[Graham849]

Hello all! I have Marantz 2230 receiver and Harman Kardon HK680 integrated amp. Reading about this new stuff like SMSL DA-9, SMSL AO100 and AO200 amps thinking how compares vintage versus new if the sound quality is the most important criterium?

Hi, an amp is an amp is an amp.

What input is used, what speakers are connected and what level of amplification is needed will all impact sound quality.

I have heard $30.00 amps with $40 speakers through to $30,000 amps driving $100,000 electrostatics. All performed well. Sound is relative depending on expectation.

Old gear sounds great as does modern gear. I'm hoping my modern gear has the longevity of my older gear.

Repairs of older gear may be easier to maintain.

Some industry gurus claim class D is too metallic sounding but I can't produce such a sound. I am using my modern amp with 22+ old speakers of unknown provenance they sound great for the demands I place on them.

 

[Graham849]

Upon reflection, older gear has dedicated hardware switches and separate circuits that may collect noise however they are easier to switch inputs than my DO100. If old gear is still working well without noisy pots and leaking caps etc enjoy!

Measuring quality of sound by ear is unscientific but in appreciation of sound, it is the final measure.

 

[vrobec]

Hi, an amp is an amp is an amp.

What input is used, what speakers are connected and what level of amplification is needed will all impact sound quality.

I have heard $30.00 amps with $40 speakers through to $30,000 amps driving $100,000 electrostatics. All performed well. Sound is relative depending on expectation.

Old gear sounds great as does modern gear. I'm hoping my modern gear has the longevity of my older gear.

Repairs of older gear may be easier to maintain.

Some industry gurus claim class D is too metallic sounding but I can't produce such a sound. I am using my modern amp with 22+ old speakers of unknown provenance they sound great for the demands I place on them.

Thanks for posting your opinions. I have vintage JBL 4311, L110A and L19A speakers. The Marantz 2230 is refreshed, and the HK680 too. All electrolitic caps and some diodes, transistores are replaced in these units.
I want to expect this SMSL AO100 or the DA-9 can drive my speakers and compete in sound quality with my vintage receiver and amp.

 

[Graham849]

Thanks for posting your opinions. I have vintage JBL 4311, L110A and L19A speakers. The Marantz 2230 is refreshed, and the HK680 too. All electrolitic caps and some diodes, transistores are replaced in these units.
I want to expect this SMSL AO100 or the DA-9 can drive my speakers and compete in sound quality with my vintage receiver and amp.

I would humbly suggest AO200 would be a better expectation, or if you want loud smsl a300 x 2.

 

[mario_rouge]

I would humbly suggest AO200 would be a better expectation, or if you want loud smsl a300 x 2.

Sabaj a30a IMHO would be the best choice. Topping pa5 would be a good choice too but it has less power.

 

[Kaval]

A query: when I turn on the DA-9, it automatically selects unbalanced as the source. But I only use balanced inputs. Every time, I have to go to the menu and choose the balanced option. Is there a way around?

 

[Toku]

A query: when I turn on the DA-9, it automatically selects unbalanced as the source. But I only use balanced inputs. Every time, I have to go to the menu and choose the balanced option. Is there a way around?

The DA-9 retains the previous state even when the power is turned off.
Power operation is performed by operating the remote control or panel knob.
Strictly speaking, this power operation puts the DA-9 in a sleep state rather than turning it off.
Perhaps you are turning the power on/off on the AC cord side of the DA-9?
Doing so will completely cut off power to the DA-9 and reset it.

 

[Kaval]

Yes, I completely turn off the power DA9 when I am not using it.

 

[Toku]

Yes, I completely turn off the power DA9 when I am not using it.

With such use, the DA-9's memory will be erased when the power is turned off, and the DA-9 will be reset each time the power is turned on.
I suggest always supplying the AC line for the amplifier as well.

 

[enio nery]

is it ok to hook up a powered sub to the da-9 via speaker level? i want to take advantage of the fact that my speakers would be alleviated from digging up so low if i let through the built it low pass filter on the speaker level i/o

 

[Toku]

is it ok to hook up a powered sub to the da-9 via speaker level? i want to take advantage of the fact that my speakers would be alleviated from digging up so low if i let through the built it low pass filter on the speaker level i/o

The DA-9 is a BTL type amplifier, and half the voltage of the power supply voltage is applied to the + and - speaker terminals.
As a general rule, connections other than speakers are prohibited.
If the four negative terminals of the speaker connection terminals on the SW side are connected to each other, overcurrent may flow and damage the amplifier.
Use a tester to check if there is continuity between the negative terminals.

 

[Ported]

With such use, the DA-9's memory will be erased when the power is turned off, and the DA-9 will be reset each time the power is turned on.
I suggest always supplying the AC line for the amplifier as well.

Strange...i have been running a da9 for a year now and it always retains the switch off state even when power is lost (it's part of an energy saving system that switches everything off). So not sure what is supposed to be default behaviour?

 

[Ears of Tin]

My year-old unit retains settings when household power is interrupted. But when power is returned the unit switches on. If I return from a trip and the display screen is on l know the neighborhood lost power when I was away.

 

[Corrado]

First I think to compare apples to apples, I have to state that I have an RME ADI-2 DAC fs. I use XLR's for connection to the amplifier, and RCA's are used from my Moon Phono stage for Record playback.

As a rule, I am never skeptical of any company announcing a new product and it's improvements over the previous generation model. Frankly I think most companies that are on an upward trajectory like SMSL can't afford bad press.

On first time, straight out of the box, the DA-9 immediately sounds better with the listening volume set to be about the same db level. The numbering system is different between the two models so you can't be sure what they mean. But it is a big difference on initial, straight out of the box with both RCA single ended and XLR. Nobody including SMSL mentions that the DA-8s though it has XLR inputs is not a balanced design. SMSL skirts that completely by merely stating that it accepts XLR inputs. The DA-9 uses an op-amp for the balanced inputs and I am not convinced that it is the correct way to make a truly balanced input but on the plus side, it sounds much, much better. I played Pink Floyds Pulse 4LP box set through the RCA inputs to speed up the aging process, digital sources no matter how high the resolution takes a little while longer for "burn-in". After the 4 LP's were done, I turned the unit off for about 5 minutes disconnecting the power cable so the caps can discharge slowly and hopefully to near zero. Plug it back in, go back to XLR and resume listening to some of my favourite songs and yes, it had improved things. I put the DA8s away after an hour of having received the DA9 from DHL. I thought I would never have any use for it. There are major differences inside the DA8s vs DA9 in terms of having a built in PSU that operates at a higher voltage and amperage compared to the DA8s. And when I opened my DA8s, I found not a single OPA1612 inside. I suspect they used a comparable item but didn't have the name on it. The op-amps that are visible I cannot find using google. I was an early adopter of the DA8s so I've had it a while, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed things as production increased as companies often do. I'll actually open my DA8s and take pics after I test it out again. And I'll post pics of the internals of the DA8s that I own. It might be different from yours? Hopefully not but I wouldn't be surprised either way.
I'm only going to use it tomorrow to do a sort of fact gathering. I'm going to play the same music through the same speakers and use a DB meter to get the levels as close to each other to make the "fact finding" mission as realistic as possible. They use the same BT module and frankly I never use BT unless I'm using my noise cancelling headphones.

I will let you know.

Hey Jokan! I've been looking for an answer for quite a long time and nobody including SMSL customer support [email protected] (which is useless) could help me.
Here is the issue: when I connect my DAC to amp's XLR input (RCA to XLR cable) it plays significantly (approx. 4-5 dB) quieter then when I go from my DAC to RCA amp's input. No difference in sound quality, only in volume.
What's wrong? I checked with different cables and still RCA are louder. Is my unit faulty?

PS other then this amp is great for the price and I really like it.