SMSL D400EX DAC Review

[Snoopy]

I only found information that current SMPS work in the range of 100khz up to 20 MHz..

You probably not claiming you are able to hear that? And if a capacitor is up to specification, that should probably be enough?

At least it seems to measure more than good enough to be transparent. What good would going over specification do In case of a DAC?

You are probably not going to buy the most expensive MacBook Pro only to read emails and watch YouTube either .. only to have enough headroom.

Or is that something audiophile like "you can't hear it but your brain knows it's there"?

 

[Andrey32768]

есть понятие "модуляция" (радио работает на частотах очень выше слышимого диапазона, но результат вы слышите)
я умею измерить некоторые параметры конденсаторов, но измерения приборами не коррелируются с результатом в звуке.
измерительные приборы позволяют измерить отдельные параметры (уровень сигнала, искажения, полосу и так далее)
но есть трудно измеряемые параметры (фазовые, интермодуляционные, временные искажения)
не всегда понятно, какого рода искажения в большей или меньшей степени влияют на воспроизведение музыки.
слух не позволяет локализовать вид или степень тех или иных искажений, но слух оценивает совокупность мусора.

Я не пользуюсь MacBook Pro, но почту предпочитаю читать на большом (без фанатизма) мониторе, а не в телефоне.
и да, у меня есть осциллограф, спектроанализатор и другие измерительные приборчики.

there is a concept of "modulation" (the radio operates at frequencies much higher than the audible range, but you can hear the result)
I can measure some parameters of capacitors, but measurements by instruments are not correlated with the result in sound.
measuring instruments allow you to measure individual parameters (signal strength, distortion, band, and so on)
, but there are difficult to measure parameters (phase, intermodulation, time distortion)
it is not always clear what kind of distortion affects music playback to a greater or lesser extent.
hearing does not allow to localize the type or degree of certain distortions, but hearing evaluates the totality of garbage.

I don't use a MacBook Pro, but I prefer to read my mail on a large (without fanaticism) monitor, rather than on my phone.
and yes, I have an oscilloscope, a spectrum analyzer and other measuring instruments.

 

[Dsimon]

есть понятие "модуляция" (радио работает на частотах очень выше слышимого диапазона, но результат вы слышите)
я умею измерить некоторые параметры конденсаторов, но измерения приборами не коррелируются с результатом в звуке.
измерительные приборы позволяют измерить отдельные параметры (уровень сигнала, искажения, полосу и так далее)
но есть трудно измеряемые параметры (фазовые, интермодуляционные, временные искажения)
не всегда понятно, какого рода искажения в большей или меньшей степени влияют на воспроизведение музыки.
слух не позволяет локализовать вид или степень тех или иных искажений, но слух оценивает совокупность мусора.

Я не пользуюсь MacBook Pro, но почту предпочитаю читать на большом (без фанатизма) мониторе, а не в телефоне.
и да, у меня есть осциллограф, спектроанализатор и другие измерительные приборчики.

there is a concept of "modulation" (the radio operates at frequencies much higher than the audible range, but you can hear the result)
I can measure some parameters of capacitors, but measurements by instruments are not correlated with the result in sound.
measuring instruments allow you to measure individual parameters (signal strength, distortion, band, and so on)
, but there are difficult to measure parameters (phase, intermodulation, time distortion)
it is not always clear what kind of distortion affects music playback to a greater or lesser extent.
hearing does not allow to localize the type or degree of certain distortions, but hearing evaluates the totality of garbage.

I don't use a MacBook Pro, but I prefer to read my mail on a large (without fanaticism) monitor, rather than on my phone.
and yes, I have an oscilloscope, a spectrum analyzer and other measuring instruments.

Hello all!
What dac your advise to setup instead of smsl d400ex?

I use smsl d400ex!
I think... This dac is the best by price 950 dollar.

 

[Andrey32768]

Я не буду давать советов что купить.
Я случайно увидел обсуждение SMSL D400EX и решил написать свою точку зрения на него.
SMSL D400EX был у меня в пользовании несколько месяцев.
Как театр начинается с вешалки, так прибор начинается с разъемов..., в SMSL D400EX они перевернуты с ног на голову.
Важным элементом театра, является буфет..., в SMSL D400EX применены источники питания принципиально шумные (гарантировано 100 mv шумов)
Актеры на сцене (компоненты цапа на плате) дешевые и расположены кое как.
Результат от представления (музыка) соответственно...

I will not give advice on what to buy.
I accidentally saw a discussion of SMSL D400EX and decided to write my point of view on it.
The SMSL D400EX has been in my use for several months.
As the theater begins with a hanger, so the device begins with connectors..., in the SMSL D400EX they are turned upside down.
An important element of the theater is the buffet ..., the SMSL D400EX uses power supplies that are fundamentally noisy (100 mv noise is guaranteed)
Actors on stage (DAC components on the board) are cheap and arranged somehow.
The result from the presentation (music), respectively...

 

[Andrey32768]

И в случае с SMSL D400EX подтверждается ругательство: "Зато дешево!"
And in the case of SMSL D400EX, the expletive is confirmed: "But cheap!"

 

[Snoopy]

As the theater begins with a hanger, so the device begins with connectors..., in the SMSL D400EX they are turned upside down.
An important element of the theater is the buffet ..., the SMSL D400EX uses power supplies that are fundamentally noisy (100 mv noise is guaranteed)
Actors on stage (DAC components on the board) are cheap and arranged somehow.
The result from the presentation (music), respectively...

if you don't care about the AKM chip you could just get the "Smsl Su-10 that" has better components or the Gustard A26 that is basically the "audiophile" version of the D400EX,

 

[Andrey32768]

Ну да, у меня сейчас играет Gustard A26
Well, yes, I have Gustard A26 playing right now

 

[Dsimon]

Ну да, у меня сейчас играет Gustard A26
Well, yes, I have Gustard A26 playing right now

I compared these two dacs...
Didn't notice the difference.
And so I bought smsl.

 

[Andrey32768]

Поздравляю с покупкой. Выбор разумеется за Вами.
Я не буду давать советов что купить.
Я случайно увидел обсуждение SMSL D400EX и решил написать свою точку зрения на него.
SMSL D400EX был у меня в пользовании несколько месяцев, потом вышла из строя микросхема процессора
управляющего работой цапа.
Все напряжения питания в норме, доступа снаружи (например по usb) нет. Причина не выявлена.
Я обратился в компанию SMSL с просьбой ПРОДАТЬ мне контроллер с прошивкой, для замены.
Много дней переписки результата не дала.
Мое отношение к компании SMSL с учетом схемотехники, конструкции и отношения к пользователю... понятно.
Сейчас у меня Gustard A26. Это совершенно другой прибор и по конструкции и по звуку (с моей точки зрения).

Congratulations on your purchase. The choice is yours, of course.
I will not give advice on what to buy.
I accidentally saw a discussion of SMSL D400EX and decided to write my point of view on it.
The SMSL D400EX was in my use for several months, then the processor chip
controlling the operation of the dac failed.
All supply voltages are normal, there is no access from outside (for example via usb). The cause has not been identified.
I applied to the SMSL company with a request to SELL me a controller with firmware, for replacement.
Many days of correspondence did not give a result.
My attitude to the SMSL company, taking into account the circuitry, design and attitude to the user... I see.
Now I have a Gustard A26. This is a completely different device both in design and sound (from my point of view).

 

[Dsimon]

Поздравляю с покупкой. Выбор разумеется за Вами.
Я не буду давать советов что купить.
Я случайно увидел обсуждение SMSL D400EX и решил написать свою точку зрения на него.
SMSL D400EX был у меня в пользовании несколько месяцев, потом вышла из строя микросхема процессора
управляющего работой цапа.
Все напряжения питания в норме, доступа снаружи (например по usb) нет. Причина не выявлена.
Я обратился в компанию SMSL с просьбой ПРОДАТЬ мне контроллер с прошивкой, для замены.
Много дней переписки результата не дала.
Мое отношение к компании SMSL с учетом схемотехники, конструкции и отношения к пользователю... понятно.
Сейчас у меня Gustard A26. Это совершенно другой прибор и по конструкции и по звуку (с моей точки зрения).

Congratulations on your purchase. The choice is yours, of course.
I will not give advice on what to buy.
I accidentally saw a discussion of SMSL D400EX and decided to write my point of view on it.
The SMSL D400EX was in my use for several months, then the processor chip
controlling the operation of the dac failed.
All supply voltages are normal, there is no access from outside (for example via usb). The cause has not been identified.
I applied to the SMSL company with a request to SELL me a controller with firmware, for replacement.
Many days of correspondence did not give a result.
My attitude to the SMSL company, taking into account the circuitry, design and attitude to the user... I see.
Now I have a Gustard A26. This is a completely different device both in design and sound (from my point of view).

I had a large number
devices.
Despite
measurements, made a choice towards ak4499 (smsl m400 and smsl d400ex).

And for Amir...
I measure the space ADC at 1kHz and 10kHz distortion.

Ak4499 is the same up to 10-15kHz.

Ess9038(topping 90se), distortion increases by 10kHz.

And need to lower the level ....

It would be nice to make measurements at 10kHz with a 96kHz sampling rate and a frequency band of 48kHz.

 

[ra990]

Direct DSD with DSD512 results in a hissing sound behind the music. Dropping the rate to DSD256 reduces it, but it's still there. @SMSL-Mandy are you aware of any upcoming firmware releases to address this issue? I am trying to use this with HQPlayer and this model's support for direct DSD with DSD512 seemed ideal, but it appears there's an issue with it. Thanks

 

[xaxxon]

Direct DSD with DSD512 results in a hissing sound behind the music. Dropping the rate to DSD256 reduces it, but it's still there. @SMSL-Mandy are you aware of any upcoming firmware releases to address this issue? I am trying to use this with HQPlayer and this model's support for direct DSD with DSD512 seemed ideal, but it appears there's an issue with it. Thanks

I had similar issues with my dacmagic 200m+ whatever dac and switching usb ports on my computer fixed this.

Never figured out what it was, but using USB slots on a different controller on my motherboard fixed it.

Also, DSD is snake oil - people just trying to sell you your music again. Just convert it to PCM and be happier.

 

[ra990]

I had similar issues with my dacmagic 200m+ whatever dac and switching usb ports on my computer fixed this.

Never figured out what it was, but using USB slots on a different controller on my motherboard fixed it.

Also, DSD is snake oil - people just trying to sell you your music again. Just convert it to PCM and be happier.

I tried a different port as well as a different computer altogether. Same issue. It seems like a bug with direct DSD mode on this DAC. I hope it will be addressed with a firmware fix, but not likely since I'm the only one reporting it.

EDIT: Looks like the hiss is significantly reduced if I select Sound Color 2 or Sound Color 3, both of which run the chip at 11M vs Sound Color 1 and 2, which run the chip at 5.6M. Weird, but glad I found it. Still not totally clean though.

EDIT2: OK, finally found that with Sound Color 3 and 4, DSD rate 22.5792 MHz, I can't tell the difference with Direct DSD Mode (Fixed DSD Bypass Pre Mode) on or off in terms of background noise.

 

[Andrey32768]

"благодаря" плохой техподдержке smsl, у меня нет smsl, ответить не могу...

"thanks to" poor smsl tech support, I don't have smsl, I can't answer...

 

[ra990]

I would think the Sound Color options wouldn't come into play at all with Direct DSD mode enabled. @SMSL-Mandy would you be able to shed some light on why this setting has an impact on Direct DSD mode? Direct DSD has a noticeable background hiss with Sound Color 1 and 2, but no hiss with 3 or 4. What is going on there?

EDIT: HQPlayer creator Jussi chimed in and apparently this is by design. DSD 256 and DSD 512 is not supported at the 5.6M rates and requires 11M, so Sound Color 3 and 4 are mandatory when playing higher DSD rates.

 

[Snoopy]

I would think the Sound Color options wouldn't come into play at all with Direct DSD mode enabled. @SMSL-Mandy would you be able to shed some light on why this setting has an impact on Direct DSD mode? Direct DSD has a noticeable background hiss with Sound Color 1 and 2, but no hiss with 3 or 4. What is going on there?

EDIT: HQPlayer creator Jussi chimed in and apparently this is by design. DSD 256 and DSD 512 is not supported at the 5.6M rates and requires 11M, so Sound Color 3 and 4 are mandatory when playing higher DSD rates.

I think I found your posts in the other forum. Seems like there are really many options with how these 2 dac chips operate with each other. probably something SMSL didn't bother to implement probably.. but that said, topping and others didn't implement DSD bypass at all.

"
AK4499EX has essentially two things to select. Sampling rate 5.6/6.1 or 11.3/12.3 and this "sound quality mode".

In addition AK4191 has four modulator choices (for PCM inputs) and can output 5, 6 or 7 bits to AK4499EX. Then in addition there are two DSD filter selections for DSD Direct mode output. So you can see there are quite a bit of setting combinations!


P.S. With Gustard, I didn't notice any differences in measured performance between these two settings."

 

[Snoopy]

Also, DSD is snake oil - people just trying to sell you your music again. Just convert it to PCM and be happier.

but the HQplayer filters and that delta sigma dacs use SDM that can be bypassed is not snake oil.

 

[David_M]

Why does this dac cost ~ $1000 ???

 

[Doodski]

Why does this dac cost ~ $1000 ???

It includes balanced operation, a leading DAC IC, very nice casework and some goofy fonts at the display. For $1k it's actually very good.

 

[Jimbob54]

Why does this dac cost ~ $1000 ???

Simply- because that is what they think they can charge to maximise profit.