SMSL D400ES and SMSL D400Ex

[MadMaxx]

I just got the D400EX from Apos Audio. I haven't done any measurements or technical analysis, but FWIW I like the sound I'm hearing. Seems like a good match with my Adam Audio A7V monitors and my kind of music (NIN, Combichrist, Prodigy). Works nicely for gaming audio, too. My previous dac was the FiiO K9 Pro ESS. I didn't have any problems with it, but sold it to a friend who wanted it to drive his headphones. After working in talk radio for about 6 years, I can't stand headphones clamped on my head. Apos has a 45 day return window, so I didn't mind buying it before any reviews were published. Build quality is solid -- heavier than I expected, but that's not a bad thing.

 

[Prana Ferox]

Why?

Because slowly but surely that's moving to the standard port / only USB out on a lot of things. Other DACs have been adopting it for a while.

 

[jaraheel]

I just got the D400EX from Apos Audio. I haven't done any measurements or technical analysis, but FWIW I like the sound I'm hearing. Seems like a good match with my Adam Audio A7V monitors and my kind of music (NIN, Combichrist, Prodigy). Works nicely for gaming audio, too. My previous dac was the FiiO K9 Pro ESS. I didn't have any problems with it, but sold it to a friend who wanted it to drive his headphones. After working in talk radio for about 6 years, I can't stand headphones clamped on my head. Apos has a 45 day return window, so I didn't mind buying it before any reviews were published. Build quality is solid -- heavier than I expected, but that's not a bad thing.

View attachment 243186

I got my own a few days ago and I have it plugged into a Topping A90. Is the output level a bit low for you too? Previously I used a D90SE from Topping and the output level was way higher than this one..

 

[MadMaxx]

I got my own a few days ago and I have it plugged into a Topping A90. Is the output level a bit low for you too? Previously I used a D90SE from Topping and the output level was way higher than this one..

No, can't say the output level is low on mine. I haven't changed any of the default settings since hooking it up.

 

[staticV3]

@jaraheel with both DACs set to 5V output, the Topping will be marginally louder, like 6%.
If you're hearing more of a difference, then you're doing something wrong. Either a setting in the DAC or a software attenuator somewhere.
Btw, you can always check your output levels yourself with a cheap $10 multimeter.

 

[jaraheel]

@jaraheel with both DACs set to 5V output, the Topping will be marginally louder, like 6%.
If you're hearing more of a difference, then you're doing something wrong. Either a setting in the DAC or a software attenuator somewhere.
Btw, you can always check your output levels yourself with a cheap $10 multimeter.

I think the D400EX tops out at 4.7V. Am I correct in my understanding that the max output voltage would be achieved by setting the volume to its max?

 

[staticV3]

Correct, 4.75Vrms is the D400EX's max output voltage with 0dBFS input.
Slightly lower than the 5.25Vrms that the D90SE can output.
In terms of perceived loudness, the Topping will be about 6% louder. That's barely audible.
If instead you're hearing a drastic difference between them, then something ain't right.

 

[jaraheel]

Correct, 4.75Vrms is the D400EX's max output voltage with 0dBFS input.
Slightly lower than the 5.25Vrms that the D90SE can output.
In terms of perceived loudness, the Topping will be about 6% louder. That's barely audible.
If instead you're hearing a drastic difference between them, then something ain't right.

ok I just replugged in my D90SE and the volume levels are definitely very, very different. Tell me do I measure the output voltage using a multimeter? Where is the ground and where is the live in the three pin XLR out? Or do I use some other pins? I would check it out tomorrow, and if it checks out then good. Otherwise Apos is amazing in its customer service.

 

[JSmith]

it's the sellers job to care

I know it depends on country, but if a local seller surely they should replace the unit (if they still have stock) and deal with the manufacturer themselves regarding return or recompense?

AKM now with hump as well?

Well that was unexpected... bit odd for sure, so will be interesting to see if any other products using the 4499EX show this.


JSmith

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Because slowly but surely that's moving to the standard port / only USB out on a lot of things. Other DACs have been adopting it for a while.

Don't see any benefits. Completely useless.

It's not a smartphone.

 

[Rover]

ok I just replugged in my D90SE and the volume levels are definitely very, very different. Tell me do I measure the output voltage using a multimeter? Where is the ground and where is the live in the three pin XLR out? Or do I use some other pins? I would check it out tomorrow, and if it checks out then good. Otherwise Apos is amazing in its customer service.

Set the volume level +2.If possible.

 

[BR52]

ok I just replugged in my D90SE and the volume levels are definitely very, very different. Tell me do I measure the output voltage using a multimeter? Where is the ground and where is the live in the three pin XLR out? Or do I use some other pins? I would check it out tomorrow, and if it checks out then good. Otherwise Apos is amazing in its customer service

Measure between Pin 2 and 3 because it's symmetric.

 

[boXem]

Reminds me a not-that-old story...
I bet $10 on high output impedance, like the last high end AKM DAC from SMSL.

 

[BR52]

Reminds me a not-that-old story...
I bet $10 on high output impedance, like the last high end AKM DAC from SMSL.

Especially, it's nothing about in the data sheet.

 

[Veri]

ok I just replugged in my D90SE and the volume levels are definitely very, very different. Tell me do I measure the output voltage using a multimeter? Where is the ground and where is the live in the three pin XLR out? Or do I use some other pins? I would check it out tomorrow, and if it checks out then good. Otherwise Apos is amazing in its customer service.

Reminds me a not-that-old story...
I bet $10 on high output impedance, like the last high end AKM DAC from SMSL.

Would explain the volume

 

[HiFindingnemo]

I'm not experiencing any weird output power issues. Seems to be mostly in line with what my Topping d70s was outputting. Volume knobs are at about the same position on my amps. Maybe the tonality of the AKM DAC vs. ESS on the D90SE is what you're hearing and perceiving as lower volume?

 

[Veri]

Maybe the tonality of the AKM DAC vs. ESS on the D90SE is what you're hearing and perceiving as lower volume?

Instead of the non-sensical "ESS sounds harsher" "AKM sounds softer" BS, it would be good to investigate an actual cause rather than mysticism and magical DAC properties...

 

[HiFindingnemo]

Instead of the non-sensical "ESS sounds harsher" "AKM sounds softer" BS, it would be good to investigate an actual cause rather than mysticism and magical DAC properties...

Why do you even comment on DAC forums if they've all sounded exactly the same for the last 15 years. I gave my actual experience with the dac and having no issues with output power.

 

[BR52]

Why do you even comment on DAC forums if they've all sounded exactly the same for the last 15 years. I gave my actual experience with the dac and having no issues with output power.

We try in this forum not to be aggressive. For a new member, it will be a good idea to read as much as possible and learn. Positive on a scientific basis, threads are much appreciated. Subjective threads are not really welcome.

 

[HiFindingnemo]

We try in this forum not to be aggressive. For a new member, it will be a good idea to read as much as possible and learn. Positive on a scientific basis, threads are much appreciated. Subjective threads are not really welcome.

Ooof, so everyone needs to get onboard the greater forum narrative if you want to post here? Posting actual experience with the unit being discussed and responding to obnoxious posts by "Master Contributors" is frowned upon. I like seeing graphs, but I understand now why this forum has such a bad reputation. Rhetorical question here, why do you all get on these pages and post dozens and dozens of comments about gear that you claim functions identically in real world application?

I'll see myself out, lol