SMSL D1 - ROHM DAC for everyone

[amanieux]

This question would be easy to answer, but I would also like to hear your answer to my question.

happy to answer if i can , what was your question ?

 

[Roland68]

happy to answer if i can , what was your question ?

my advice is to resiste the buyer impulse and wait for reviews to come out, common sense tells use that a 17 euros dac chip will not sound like a 102 euro dac chip from the same company

Then you would say that a good implementation of an AK4493, e.g. in the RME ADI-2, Topping E30 II, SMSL SU-1 etc., sounds significantly and audibly better than an AK4499 based DAC, e.g. E70 Velvet, D400 Pro etc.?

 

[amanieux]

Then you would say that a good implementation of an AK4493, e.g. in the RME ADI-2, Topping E30 II, SMSL SU-1 etc., sounds significantly and audibly better than an AK4499 based DAC, e.g. E70 Velvet, D400 Pro etc.?

my experience with dac is that differences are very subtle and if you want"significantly and audibly better" differences upgrade your drivers instead

 

[Toku]

If you have any doubts about the two DAC chips, ROHM's BD34301EKV and BD34352EKV, I have attached the data sheets so please compare the two.

I used to be involved in IC design, so I think they are selected and given different model numbers based on the results of the final inspection.
The Japanese company ROHM used to be a resistor manufacturer. Then, following the trend of the times, they expanded into powered semiconductor devices in the power field. I think that entering the unknown DAC field was a big gamble for the company.
However, I have doubts about the setting of the sales price of the BD34301EKV. It is inferior in performance to ESS and AKM, so I think the price is excessive, no matter how much of a sales strategy it is.
The BD34301EKV is used in the SMSLD300, but I think the purchase price of SMSL is quite low compared to the sales price of the D300. I was very interested in the D300, but it was unstable and the reviews were not good, so I did not buy it. However, the SMSL D1 is priced so that even if it is a failure, I can accept it, so I would definitely like to try it.

 

[Roland68]

my experience with dac is that differences are very subtle and if you want"significantly and audibly better" differences upgrade your drivers instead

And that's precisely the point: the well-implemented €/$ 5-10 DAC chips from AKM and ESS aren't audibly different from the Flag Chip DACs. The audible differences, if any, are marginal at best and come more from the analog than the digital circuitry.

That's why a sentence like "common sense tells use that a 17 euro DAC chip will not sound like a 102 euro DAC chip from the same company" is very confusing, especially for inexperienced users.

Because, especially with the SMSL D300 and D1, the differences are likely to be very small. Apart from the minimal differences between the two DAC chips, the circuitry used is probably the same, both in the DAC chip and the output stage. They could be twins, just in a smaller space.

I originally didn't want to do any tests with the D300, but a blinded comparison with the D1 could be interesting.

D300 DAC chip and output stage & D1 DAC chip and output stage:

 

[amanieux]

If you have any doubts about the two DAC chips, ROHM's BD34301EKV and BD34352EKV, I have attached the data sheets so please compare the two.

I used to be involved in IC design, so I think they are selected and given different model numbers based on the results of the final inspection.
The Japanese company ROHM used to be a resistor manufacturer. Then, following the trend of the times, they expanded into powered semiconductor devices in the power field. I think that entering the unknown DAC field was a big gamble for the company.
However, I have doubts about the setting of the sales price of the BD34301EKV. It is inferior in performance to ESS and AKM, so I think the price is excessive, no matter how much of a sales strategy it is.
The BD34301EKV is used in the SMSLD300, but I think the purchase price of SMSL is quite low compared to the sales price of the D300. I was very interested in the D300, but it was unstable and the reviews were not good, so I did not buy it. However, the SMSL D1 is priced so that even if it is a failure, I can accept it, so I would definitely like to try it.

schematics seems identical but one is branded "mus-ic" not sure what it means

 

[amanieux]

And that's precisely the point: the well-implemented €/$ 5-10 DAC chips from AKM and ESS aren't audibly different from the Flag Chip DACs. The audible differences, if any, are marginal at best and come more from the analog than the digital circuitry.

That's why a sentence like "common sense tells use that a 17 euro DAC chip will not sound like a 102 euro DAC chip from the same company" is very confusing, especially for inexperienced users.

Because, especially with the SMSL D300 and D1, the differences are likely to be very small. Apart from the minimal differences between the two DAC chips, the circuitry used is probably the same, both in the DAC chip and the output stage. They could be twins, just in a smaller space.

I originally didn't want to do any tests with the D300, but a blinded comparison with the D1 could be interesting.

D300 DAC chip and output stage & D1 DAC chip and output stage:
View attachment 452646View attachment 452647

common sense is that if 2 chips are 99% identical no circuit designer will use the 102 euros chip and use the 17 euros chip instead, smsl use both both chips in 2 price segments, there must be a good reason

 

[Roland68]

i also notice this rohm low cost dac chip came out 3 years ago, why haven't it been more used https://audioxpress.com/news/rohm-announces-new-32bit-d-a-converter-ic-for-high-end-audio-products

If you have any doubts about the two DAC chips, ROHM's BD34301EKV and BD34352EKV, I have attached the data sheets so please compare the two.

I used to be involved in IC design, so I think they are selected and given different model numbers based on the results of the final inspection.
The Japanese company ROHM used to be a resistor manufacturer. Then, following the trend of the times, they expanded into powered semiconductor devices in the power field. I think that entering the unknown DAC field was a big gamble for the company.
However, I have doubts about the setting of the sales price of the BD34301EKV. It is inferior in performance to ESS and AKM, so I think the price is excessive, no matter how much of a sales strategy it is.
The BD34301EKV is used in the SMSLD300, but I think the purchase price of SMSL is quite low compared to the sales price of the D300. I was very interested in the D300, but it was unstable and the reviews were not good, so I did not buy it. However, the SMSL D1 is priced so that even if it is a failure, I can accept it, so I would definitely like to try it.

There are several reasons why Rohm DAC chips are so rarely used.
Firstly, many long-established audio manufacturers have withdrawn from the DAC market over the past five years, partly due to the huge number of affordable and well-measured DACs. You can find more information about this in another post of mine here: #524

Then, of course, working with a new and unknown product is a huge risk. You don't know how complex the development will be or what kind of result is possible. Even for an initial assessment, you have to invest a five-figure sum. And no one can tell you how well customers will accept the product. This could turn into a six-figure loss project if you're aiming for a truly high-quality development. SMSL, for example, simply implements the design/suggestion of the DAC chip manufacturer and optimizes the measured values. This costs only a fraction of what a high-quality development costs, see also #524.
There are a few DACs and CD players with Rohm chips, but I haven't been following them. I remember Cayin, Luxman, iBasso, Xduoo, etc. But there are certainly some high-priced products that I haven't heard of.

In my opinion, the pricing of the expensive ROHM chip is pure marketing and simply inflated. Anyone who knows what percentage of the retail price actually goes to a manufacturer like SMSL also knows that SMSL purchased the DAC chip for the D300 for a fraction of the official price. The same applies to the D1, which is now listed and available for order on Amazon for €79. Here, too, the purchase price will be far from the official €12-17.

The "XDUOO BD34301EKV High Performance ROHM DAC Module Professional Balanced DAC for XD05 Pro" also demonstrates how ridiculous the distributors' pricing for the ROHM BD34301EKV chip is. The module is currently offered through retailers for around €150. This means that the net purchase price of the module for the retailer is approximately the same as the lowest distributor price for the BD34301EKV. For this to work, the price for the manufacturer must be much lower than AKM and ESS.

 

[Toku]

schematics seems identical but one is branded "mus-ic" not sure what it means

ROHM's MUS-IC is the series name given to their flagship products. This name is used for several IC products other than DAC chips.

Japan's JRC also uses the MUSE name for its audio op-amps. These names are part of a sales strategy to make users feel a sense of luxury about the products. If you search the internet for ROHM MUS-IC, you will find a lot of information.

ROHM Musical Device: MUS-IC

ROHM Musical Device: MUS-IC

micro.rohm.com

ROHM Releases MUS-IC Series DAC chip

ROHM has launched new BD34301EKV, 32bit D/A converter IC designed for high fidelity audio equipment , capable of high-resolution playback of audio sources.

www.bisinfotech.com

 

[Roland68]

ROHM's MUS-IC is the series name given to their flagship products. This name is used for several IC products other than DAC chips.

Japan's JRC also uses the MUSE name for its audio op-amps. These names are part of a sales strategy to make users feel a sense of luxury about the products. If you search the internet for ROHM MUS-IC, you will find a lot of information.

ROHM Musical Device: MUS-IC

ROHM Musical Device: MUS-IC

micro.rohm.com

ROHM Releases MUS-IC Series DAC chip

ROHM has launched new BD34301EKV, 32bit D/A converter IC designed for high fidelity audio equipment , capable of high-resolution playback of audio sources.

www.bisinfotech.com

Don't forget VELVET or VELVETSOUND by AKM .
They even have dedicated websites for them.

 

[amanieux]

i am a weak idiot, i give advice to wait for reviews but the GAS got the better of me and i clicked the purchase button, i am sure i am going to regret it because i tried a dozen dac and each time i conclude that differences are minimal and end up reselling them, how do you guys can be wiser than me ? i am 58 yo and still a dreamer hoping for day and night sound difference in audio gear when my experience showed me again and again that it is the driver that impact sound significantly and not the source

 

[Toku]

i am a weak idiot, i give advice to wait for reviews but the GAS got the better of me and i clicked the purchase button, i am sure i am going to regret it because i tried a dozen dac and each time i conclude that differences are minimal and end up reselling them, how do you guys can be wiser than me ? i am 58 yo and still a dreamer hoping for day and night sound difference in audio gear when my experience showed me again and again that it is the driver that impact sound significantly and not the source

People who live for their hobbies are weak. Once you find something that catches your eye, you can't help but try it even if you know the results. I'm 74 years old, and I've had the same experiences as you many times since I was young. But those experiences have never been in vain. When you receive the D1, please let me know what you think.

 

[unpluggged]

i am 58 yo and still a dreamer hoping for day and night sound difference in audio gear when my experience showed me again and again that it is the driver that impact sound significantly and not the source

At this point, our efforts should concentrate on looking for and selecting better produced music rather than trying to find the holy grail in gear (we already have it).

 

[amanieux]

At this point, our efforts should concentrate on looking for and selecting better produced music rather than trying to find the holy grail in gear (we already have it).

agree but how can we do that ?

 

[amanieux]

People who live for their hobbies are weak. Once you find something that catches your eye, you can't help but try it even if you know the results. I'm 74 years old, and I've had the same experiences as you many times since I was young. But those experiences have never been in vain. When you receive the D1, please let me know what you think.

i came back to my senses and canceled my order ( thank you linsoul great support), i will patiently wait for smsl d1 reviews to come out before buying

 

[Toku]

i came back to my senses and canceled my order ( thank you linsoul great support), i will patiently wait for smsl d1 reviews to come out before buying

I gave in to temptation and pressed the order button on Amazon. It will arrive tomorrow, so I'll report back on my experience using it.

 

[amanieux]

I gave in to temptation and pressed the order button on Amazon. It will arrive tomorrow, so I'll report back on my experience using it.

please share your impression you will be the first one i guess please remember to compare it with an older dac you already know well because i noticed that with new gear we are in a hyper focused attention mode where many things seem to pop up but once you plug back your old gear you realize it was already there, it was just your mind that was looking for new things)

 

[VientoB]

common sense is that if 2 chips are 99% identical no circuit designer will use the 102 euros chip and use the 17 euros chip instead, smsl use both both chips in 2 price segments, there must be a good reason

Marketing. Price justification.

 

[amanieux]

Marketing. Price justification.

unit variation on the production line is a well known fact, i remember that intel cpu were tested out of the production line and certified for different speed based on their individual performance coming from random per unit differences, same thing for grado drivers headphones or ray tubes on the gremlin amp that are not measured but sorted by a human ear

 

[VientoB]

unit variation on the production line is a well known fact, i remember that intel cpu were tested out of the production line and certified for different speed based on their individual performance coming from random per unit differences, same thing for grado drivers headphones or ray tubes on the gremlin amp that are not measured but sorted by a human ear

Sure. But that wasn't what I was talking about.