SMSL D1 - ROHM DAC for everyone

[Roland68]

Did you join the wrong forum by mistake? This is ASR, so if you want to provide some evidence of your claims, please do so. Otherwise, do not spread misinformation here.


JSmith

I completely agree with @JanL. You should trust your ears.
But only if you're sure your eyes aren't involved.

 

[JanL]

I'll just leave this here for the gatekeepers.

Why the Best Scientists Are Open Minded

Primatologists and praying farmers show us why it takes a flexible brain, and many perspectives, to unlock truly groundbreaking science.

bigthink.com

 

[conuss]

You know, if someone denies facts that have been known in every industry for decades, I don't care at all.
I'll post two links: one from a test and one from a forum request, so you can see for yourself how ridiculous your accusation is.
Review on Lowbeats with photo
Request from a manufacturer in a large electronics forum

I realized that you are a superficially knowledgeable theorist who relies on this kind of information, rather than a technically advanced audio listener who necessarily depends on cutting-edge industry developments.
The links don't open, and even if they did, the question of masking the OPU model in a DAC for 40 euros would remain without an obvious answer – pure fraud, a disreputable act, a blatant scheme aimed solely at personal profit.
And I repeat, why is your DAC not $10 based on a codec, indistinguishable in a blind test, but somewhat more expensive? What causes such an absurd practical oxymoron? ))

 

[Roland68]

I realized that you are a superficially knowledgeable theorist who relies on this kind of information, rather than a technically advanced audio listener who necessarily depends on cutting-edge industry developments.
The links don't open

Are all you're getting now is slander, defamation, false statements, and false allegations?
Is that your level?
Do you think the other users in the forum don't see your behavior and what you're trying to do?

The links work fine for other users, by the way.
15 years of speaker development with DIY speaker shops and chassis manufacturers, my own speaker developments whose designs were used by manufacturers without permission, 10 years of tuning and developing audio equipment with tuners and manufacturers.
Added to that is a project in which we've been comparing, reengineering, and measuring devices with engineers, developers, measurement technicians, application developers (measurement technology), audiophiles, and manufacturers for 25 years to get to the bottom of certain phenomena. The more than 10 years I spent working with recording studios in a similar field are no longer significant.
The other area of my experience comes from our company, where we develop, manufacture, and ship high-energy products worldwide. These products are used, among other things, in stress and aging tests of all kinds of electronics and components, e.g., in capacitor production. This brings us full circle to the audio sector. Much earlier, we also built and pumped vacuum tubes for TVs, radios, and hi-fi equipment.

If someone with that kind of experience is just a superficially knowledgeable theorist to you, then you definitely need to find much more experienced people with whom you can discuss things and who can answer your questions.

That pretty much says it all from my point of view.
Are you surprised that more and more experienced users are posting less and less? There are reasons for that.
At least I won't respond to your posts in the future, since you've made it onto my ignore list.

and even if they did, the question of masking the OPU model in a DAC for 40 euros would remain without an obvious answer – pure fraud, a disreputable act, a blatant scheme aimed solely at personal profit.
And I repeat, why is your DAC not $10 based on a codec, indistinguishable in a blind test, but somewhat more expensive? What causes such an absurd practical oxymoron? ))

By the way, one last comment on your question.
I don't understand what you're trying to say with this question, or what exactly the question is. Four developers and measurement technicians in our company didn't understand it either, but that's probably our fault.

 

[truth_soldier]

oh joy, another product related thread devolves into an arg about subjective opinions. Some people never get tired of wasting time typing this rot.

 

[Sono]

Using the SU-1 for quite some time now, my only objection is that my unit tends to give up cooperation with Windows 11 from time to time. I have to unplug/replug the USB-C cable every time then to solve the problem (for some days or so).

But I guess it would be naive to believe that replacing the SU-1 with a D1 will end that issue. Or would it?

 

[oldpainless]

Using the SU-1 for quite some time now, my only objection is that my unit tends to give up cooperation with Windows 11 from time to time. I have to unplug/replug the USB-C cable every time then to solve the problem (for some days or so).

But I guess it would be naive to believe that replacing the SU-1 with a D1 will end that issue. Or would it?

On that, there are only several possibilties:

1- Windows 11 OS/some background process
2 - USB-C cable faulty
3 - laptop/hardware
4- unlikely changing from a SU-1 to D1 would fix the issue
5 - see 1, 2 and 3

 

[conuss]

Are all you're getting now is slander, defamation, false statements, and false allegations?
Is that your level?
Do you think the other users in the forum don't see your behavior and what you're trying to do?

The links work fine for other users, by the way.
15 years of speaker development with DIY speaker shops and chassis manufacturers, my own speaker developments whose designs were used by manufacturers without permission, 10 years of tuning and developing audio equipment with tuners and manufacturers.
Added to that is a project in which we've been comparing, reengineering, and measuring devices with engineers, developers, measurement technicians, application developers (measurement technology), audiophiles, and manufacturers for 25 years to get to the bottom of certain phenomena. The more than 10 years I spent working with recording studios in a similar field are no longer significant.
The other area of my experience comes from our company, where we develop, manufacture, and ship high-energy products worldwide. These products are used, among other things, in stress and aging tests of all kinds of electronics and components, e.g., in capacitor production. This brings us full circle to the audio sector. Much earlier, we also built and pumped vacuum tubes for TVs, radios, and hi-fi equipment.

If someone with that kind of experience is just a superficially knowledgeable theorist to you, then you definitely need to find much more experienced people with whom you can discuss things and who can answer your questions.

That pretty much says it all from my point of view.
Are you surprised that more and more experienced users are posting less and less? There are reasons for that.
At least I won't respond to your posts in the future, since you've made it onto my ignore list.



By the way, one last comment on your question.
I don't understand what you're trying to say with this question, or what exactly the question is. Four developers and measurement technicians in our company didn't understand it either, but that's probably our fault.

I don't know what you're hearing there, but "other users on the forum" clearly see that you still haven't admitted by what criteria your dac is not for $10, but much more expensive, although the first one is indistinguishable in a blind test from yours.When you clearly justify this not with your high professional achievements, but according to your conceptual arguments within the framework of the results of blind tests, then the real value of your conclusions will become clear. And I find this value negligible, because pointing the finger, and not myself, is the lot of a pathetic hypocritical poseur.

 

[Roland68]

Using the SU-1 for quite some time now, my only objection is that my unit tends to give up cooperation with Windows 11 from time to time. I have to unplug/replug the USB-C cable every time then to solve the problem (for some days or so).

But I guess it would be naive to believe that replacing the SU-1 with a D1 will end that issue. Or would it?

Can you reactivate USB by slowly switching through the inputs on the SU-1?
If you're not using the original USB cable, make sure it's a genuine USB 2.0 cable and not a 3.x or 4.x. The included electronics have often caused problems with DACs.

For me, both the SU-1 and the D1 often run continuously on my Mac for weeks without losing connection.

 

[JSmith]

what criteria your dac is not for $10, but much more expensive, although the first one is indistinguishable in a blind test from yours

The point of higher priced DAC's is mainly connectivity options, functions, things like remotes and screens, the aesthetics of the case etc. Nothing to do with sound quality improvements generally.


JSmith

 

[billbillw]

Can you reactivate USB by slowly switching through the inputs on the SU-1?
If you're not using the original USB cable, make sure it's a genuine USB 2.0 cable and not a 3.x or 4.x. The included electronics have often caused problems with DACs.

For me, both the SU-1 and the D1 often run continuously on my Mac for weeks without losing connection.

Hi Roland,
As a user of the SU-1 and a Mac, I have been frustrated by the 'click-click' noise when the DAC goes in/out of mute, using the USB interface. I previously used the SU-1 with Windows and I was able to configure the XMOS driver to be "Always On" and that worked very well. No complaints until I migrated to Mac last summer and since then, I have been frequently annoyed by the SU-1 clicks. Do you find any difference with the D1 vs the SU-1 with respect to muting clicks? The muting on the SU-1 is such a problem that I have make the MacOS play the system notification sounds through the MacMini speaker, otherwise, I never hear anything other than a series of clicks.
If the D1 has a better implementation of the XMOS firmware (ie: always on with USB), I may consider switching DACs. Not for any sound improvement, but for feature livability.

 

[Roland68]

Hi Roland,
As a user of the SU-1 and a Mac, I have been frustrated by the 'click-click' noise when the DAC goes in/out of mute, using the USB interface. I previously used the SU-1 with Windows and I was able to configure the XMOS driver to be "Always On" and that worked very well. No complaints until I migrated to Mac last summer and since then, I have been frequently annoyed by the SU-1 clicks. Do you find any difference with the D1 vs the SU-1 with respect to muting clicks? The muting on the SU-1 is such a problem that I have make the MacOS play the system notification sounds through the MacMini speaker, otherwise, I never hear anything other than a series of clicks.
If the D1 has a better implementation of the XMOS firmware (ie: always on with USB), I may consider switching DACs. Not for any sound improvement, but for feature livability.

As I said, I don't experience these clicking noises, neither with the SU-1, D1, C100, nor any other DAC.

90-98% of these clicking noises are a ground problem with all the devices connected, and extremely rarely the problem of a single device.
I know that most users don't want to hear this because it's much easier to blame a single device, preferably the one that was added most recently.
But that's usually a misconception. It can happen that the clicking noise disappears with a different DAC, stays the same, or gets worse.
We found in a few measurements that the clicking noise was often already present in the signal the DAC was receiving, which suggests a ground problem.

The gain factors of the individual devices also have an effect.

You could simply try the D1.
Alternatively, you could also buy a PO100 2024 and connect it to the SU-1 via Toslink and thus operate the devices without a ground connection.

 

[billbillw]

As I said, I don't experience these clicking noises, neither with the SU-1, D1, C100, nor any other DAC.

90-98% of these clicking noises are a ground problem with all the devices connected, and extremely rarely the problem of a single device.
I know that most users don't want to hear this because it's much easier to blame a single device, preferably the one that was added most recently.
But that's usually a misconception. It can happen that the clicking noise disappears with a different DAC, stays the same, or gets worse.
We found in a few measurements that the clicking noise was often already present in the signal the DAC was receiving, which suggests a ground problem.

The gain factors of the individual devices also have an effect.

You could simply try the D1.
Alternatively, you could also buy a PO100 2024 and connect it to the SU-1 via Toslink and thus operate the devices without a ground connection.

I must be in that 2% because it is not a grounding issue. This is demonstrably because of my SU-1 muting/unmuting. I can go into MacOS System>Sound settings and if I select Play Sound through SMSL SU-1 and click the test button repeatedly, I hear nothing the 1st time or second time, then I hear the tone on subsequent presses. If I stop and the SU-1 re-mutes itself, I will not hear the 1st press when I start again. If I switch over to the MacMini speaker, I hear every press immediately. So, maybe my issue isn't the annoyance of the barely audible clicks, but the missing of audio at the beginning of playback. Its probably a combination of things for me.

I fixed the issue with Windows by configuring the XMOS USB driver to have the device "Always On" which made the SU-1 very enjoyable under Windows. Sadly with the Mac's native driver, there is no option to set always on.

Perhaps your SU-1 is a later production and it has an updated firmware that keeps it Always On. I know that Aoshida Audio had Shenzhen fixed the C100 with a firmware update, but I contacted Shenzhen over a year ago and they told me there would not be a user updatable firmware for the SU-1, but it may be corrected in production.

I don't really see myself spending $40+ for a USB>Toslink adapter as a solution to fix a $60 DAC, so I might try the D1.

 

[Roland68]

I must be in that 2% because it is not a grounding issue. This is demonstrably because of my SU-1 muting/unmuting. I can go into MacOS System>Sound settings and if I select Play Sound through SMSL SU-1 and click the test button repeatedly, I hear nothing the 1st time or second time, then I hear the tone on subsequent presses. If I stop and the SU-1 re-mutes itself, I will not hear the 1st press when I start again. If I switch over to the MacMini speaker, I hear every press immediately. So, maybe my issue isn't the annoyance of the barely audible clicks, but the missing of audio at the beginning of playback. Its probably a combination of things for me.

I fixed the issue with Windows by configuring the XMOS USB driver to have the device "Always On" which made the SU-1 very enjoyable under Windows. Sadly with the Mac's native driver, there is no option to set always on.

Perhaps your SU-1 is a later production and it has an updated firmware that keeps it Always On. I know that Aoshida Audio had Shenzhen fixed the C100 with a firmware update, but I contacted Shenzhen over a year ago and they told me there would not be a user updatable firmware for the SU-1, but it may be corrected in production.

I don't really see myself spending $40+ for a USB>Toslink adapter as a solution to fix a $60 DAC, so I might try the D1.

Regarding the clicking noises, what you're describing is exactly what we've noticed with ground problems, among other things. I forgot to mention that most users often deny this outright.

But ground problems are incredibly complex, very difficult to locate, and in some cases, very difficult to prove.
Even the best experts have been at a loss with this.

You're unfortunately taking the wrong approach.
With the PO100, you're not repairing the DAC, but rather eliminating a possible ground problem, which definitely isn't caused by the DAC alone.
The easiest thing would be to borrow a PO100 or buy one with a return option and test the whole thing. If the clicking noises disappear, that means a ground problem; otherwise, it's something else entirely.

It probably has nothing to do with the shutdown, though; it could be something related to the firmware.

 

[billbillw]

Regarding the clicking noises, what you're describing is exactly what we've noticed with ground problems, among other things. I forgot to mention that most users often deny this outright.

But ground problems are incredibly complex, very difficult to locate, and in some cases, very difficult to prove.
Even the best experts have been at a loss with this.

You're unfortunately taking the wrong approach.
With the PO100, you're not repairing the DAC, but rather eliminating a possible ground problem, which definitely isn't caused by the DAC alone.
The easiest thing would be to borrow a PO100 or buy one with a return option and test the whole thing. If the clicking noises disappear, that means a ground problem; otherwise, it's something else entirely.

It probably has nothing to do with the shutdown, though; it could be something related to the firmware.

I think you are missing the point. My SU-1 mutes itself when there is no audio and turns on when a signal is received. Unfortunately, it takes a little over 1 second to turn on from mute. When audio starts, the delay before it un-mutes causes dropped audio. It just happens to be accompanied by a super faint click. To exacerbate the problem, the SU-1 re-mutes within 2 seconds of audio stopping. That is what the problem is and that is not how a DAC should work when connected to a device by USB. The issue was pretty easily fixed under Windows, but MacOS doesn't offer any configuration for the native USB audio driver.

There is extensive talk about this in the SU-1 thread, especially in August 2024. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-su-1-stereo-dac-review.44029/page-56

I will say that my clicking is much more faint that what alexanderino shows in his video with the C100. Mine is very faint and it normally wouldn't be an issue, but it happens so often with the SU-1, it just becomes an annoyance because it lets you know you just missed 1+ seconds of audio. Most likely from a notificadtion sound from the OS, or an email notification, etc. If I turn on continuous music or video playback, there is no issue.

 

[Roland68]

I think you are missing the point. My SU-1 mutes itself when there is no audio and turns on when a signal is received. Unfortunately, it takes a little over 1 second to turn on from mute. When audio starts, the delay before it un-mutes causes dropped audio. It just happens to be accompanied by a super faint click. To exacerbate the problem, the SU-1 re-mutes within 2 seconds of audio stopping. That is what the problem is and that is not how a DAC should work when connected to a device by USB. The issue was pretty easily fixed under Windows, but MacOS doesn't offer any configuration for the native USB audio driver.

There is extensive talk about this in the SU-1 thread, especially in August 2024. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-su-1-stereo-dac-review.44029/page-56

I will say that my clicking is much more faint that what alexanderino shows in his video with the C100. Mine is very faint and it normally wouldn't be an issue, but it happens so often with the SU-1, it just becomes an annoyance because it lets you know you just missed 1+ seconds of audio. Most likely from a notificadtion sound from the OS, or an email notification, etc. If I turn on continuous music or video playback, there is no issue.

But that was misleading, because the clicking noise was what you complained about in the first sentence.

Then you can only try it with a different device and hope that it was due to the earlier version of the SU-1/firmware. There might not be a new firmware because something has changed in the hardware, and Shenzhen Audio doesn't want to spend money on a firmware update since all these devices have already been sold.

My D1 always follows the mouse click on the foot, whether starting or stopping. The moment I click, the music starts playing. Without any additional noise.

 

[Roland68]

Is it just me or treble in the D1 seems too shouty and overemphasized?

No, I would have noticed that.
Compared to what?

 

[sabih]

No, I would have noticed that.
Compared to what?

Compared to cs4398 DAC that I was using previously.

 

[Roland68]

Compared to cs4398 DAC that I was using previously.

That's just the DAC chip, a fairly old flagship DAC from Cirrus Logic. That doesn't tell you much, because the implementation is much more important than the DAC chip.
If you really want an answer, we need more information, ideally the DAC device, amplifier, speakers, and source.

 

[sabih]

That's just the DAC chip, a fairly old flagship DAC from Cirrus Logic. That doesn't tell you much, because the implementation is much more important than the DAC chip.
If you really want an answer, we need more information, ideally the DAC device, amplifier, speakers, and source.

DAC is ok.
Problem was with the recording that I was listening to.
Comment deleted.